Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:49 am

@Heinz: since the bigniing of FISTF we have had a lot of tricky situations with either people who resigned or people who do nothing. It's much better to have real elections every 2 years because so many times we have had tricky situations with people being nominated "ad interim" during the AGM so that would be better to make things official.

@Honkki: 1 or 0. if you start giving 2 votes to bigger nations, then it's the end of democracy. At the FIFA or the IOC, every nation has one vote and I think that's fine if Monaco has as much to say as the USA (int he case of the IOC).
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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:53 am

That could be stuff about a "real" change of statutes, which has to happen in my opinion, but the current board prefers it to discuss privately and then send out that paper.
In the end it is also the job of FISTF to check the situation in all associations. In our actual statutes there are things mentioned. For an example the association has to be officially registered in the country, the FISTF Board needs to have a copy of the actual statutes. Of course that's not the guarentee for a real active association, but together with some other points like you described a better voting system could be the result.

Heinz

hönkki wrote:
It's ridiculous that a country with one player, simply by paying, to be a member of the FISTF no minimum requirements (people, tournaments, etc.)

There should be some minimum requirements for the right to vote, but not to be a member of FISTF. I think it's ok if India is a membernation, but that is not ok if India has the same vote as Italy, if India has just one player. Minimum requirements could be for instance 10 players in FISTF ranking and 1 official FISTF tournament per year (and of course the membership fee).

There could be a system, where the big nations have 2 votes, the small nations have 1 vote and the nations which are truly in the beginner level have 0 votes. Just an idea.

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:40 am

Vincent, the statutes are crap in the end, we all know it from january.
The next things which have to be clearified are:

What happens if a candidate doesn't get the majority of votes, if he is the only candidate for a post?
I didn't find anything for that case in the actual statutes.

What has to happen, if there are not enough candidates for all posts in the FISTF Board?
I didn't even find something for the case that there aren't enough candidates for the posts in FISTF.

Is it possible to candidate for more than one post in the FISTF Board?
I didn't find something, if it is possible to candidate for more than 1 post in the FISTF Board.

The next text is copied out of our statutes.
Art. 4
4-1 A National Association wishing to become a Member shall offer its request to the FISTF Board of Directors. This request shall include its statutes and regulations. These will be scrutinized by the Board of Directors for conformity with the principles of FISTF.
4-2 The request for membership shall include (but not be limited to) the solemn promise to:
a) Abide by the Statutes, regulations and decisions of FISTF; and
b) Apply the rules of the game in force within FISTF.
4-3 The acceptance by FISTF of the request for membership shall render such promise legally binding on the new Member. This provision shall apply equally to Provisional Members.
4-4 A Member may at any time withdraw from FISTF by informing in writing the Board of Directors.
4-5 Even after it has withdrawn or has been excluded from FISTF, a National Association, its successors and assignees, shall remain liable for any obligation, monetary or otherwise, incurred when it was a Member.

When did that happen the last time, when an association requested membership?

The Congress
Art. 9
9-6 It shall be possible for Members to use postal vote.

on the same page of our statutes:

Art. 11
11-1 The Congress votes for elections shall be by secret ballot. In any other case, the vote shall be by show of hand.

I'm sure spending more time would make it possible to list much more examples, why our stautes need a redesign, I only ask myself what the french authority is doing with the sent statutes, they only seem to add them to their archives, otherwise FISTF would need to get back a letter with all compaints about our statutes and we wouldn't get official status as long as we don't correct those things.

Heinz

Admin wrote:@Heinz: since the bigniing of FISTF we have had a lot of tricky situations with either people who resigned or people who do nothing. It's much better to have real elections every 2 years because so many times we have had tricky situations with people being nominated "ad interim" during the AGM so that would be better to make things official.

@Honkki: 1 or 0. if you start giving 2 votes to bigger nations, then it's the end of democracy. At the FIFA or the IOC, every nation has one vote and I think that's fine if Monaco has as much to say as the USA (int he case of the IOC).

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:52 am

Additionally on that which maybe was a bit off-topic, something to come back to the topic.

There isn't something mentioned in our statutes about deadlines for applications for a job or that the president of an association has to approve the candidature.

As we can see actually, all those things need to be written down clearly. In the end I think that the statutes of most national associations are even better than the current FISTF statutes.

Heinz

Heinz Eder wrote:Vincent, the statutes are crap in the end, we all know it from january.
The next things which have to be clearified are:

What happens if a candidate doesn't get the majority of votes, if he is the only candidate for a post?
I didn't find anything for that case in the actual statutes.

What has to happen, if there are not enough candidates for all posts in the FISTF Board?
I didn't even find something for the case that there aren't enough candidates for the posts in FISTF.

Is it possible to candidate for more than one post in the FISTF Board?
I didn't find something, if it is possible to candidate for more than 1 post in the FISTF Board.

The next text is copied out of our statutes.
Art. 4
4-1 A National Association wishing to become a Member shall offer its request to the FISTF Board of Directors. This request shall include its statutes and regulations. These will be scrutinized by the Board of Directors for conformity with the principles of FISTF.
4-2 The request for membership shall include (but not be limited to) the solemn promise to:
a) Abide by the Statutes, regulations and decisions of FISTF; and
b) Apply the rules of the game in force within FISTF.
4-3 The acceptance by FISTF of the request for membership shall render such promise legally binding on the new Member. This provision shall apply equally to Provisional Members.
4-4 A Member may at any time withdraw from FISTF by informing in writing the Board of Directors.
4-5 Even after it has withdrawn or has been excluded from FISTF, a National Association, its successors and assignees, shall remain liable for any obligation, monetary or otherwise, incurred when it was a Member.

When did that happen the last time, when an association requested membership?

The Congress
Art. 9
9-6 It shall be possible for Members to use postal vote.

on the same page of our statutes:

Art. 11
11-1 The Congress votes for elections shall be by secret ballot. In any other case, the vote shall be by show of hand.

I'm sure spending more time would make it possible to list much more examples, why our stautes need a redesign, I only ask myself what the french authority is doing with the sent statutes, they only seem to add them to their archives, otherwise FISTF would need to get back a letter with all compaints about our statutes and we wouldn't get official status as long as we don't correct those things.

Heinz

Admin wrote:@Heinz: since the bigniing of FISTF we have had a lot of tricky situations with either people who resigned or people who do nothing. It's much better to have real elections every 2 years because so many times we have had tricky situations with people being nominated "ad interim" during the AGM so that would be better to make things official.

@Honkki: 1 or 0. if you start giving 2 votes to bigger nations, then it's the end of democracy. At the FIFA or the IOC, every nation has one vote and I think that's fine if Monaco has as much to say as the USA (int he case of the IOC).

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  drastis on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:47 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Additionally on that which maybe was a bit off-topic, something to come back to the topic.

There isn't something mentioned in our statutes about deadlines for applications for a job or that the president of an association has to approve the candidature.

This is exactly what my lawyer said to me. Wink

By the way, is any BoD member on the line? Houston, Houston do you read??

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:26 pm

I honestly feel ashamed that people need their lawyer to get the possibility to take part in an election, especially when there aren't existing any special rules in the statutes for being a candidate.
It must be reality with our actual statutes that everybody can apply for a job on the board. The members of FISTF should decide for one person of the country if there are more candidates or should decide between people from different countries if there are more candidates than posts available at the end.

In my opinion there is also a text needed, that tells the delegates not to vote for candidates from the same country of the Delegate.

In combination with that, maybe somebody could explain me what are special circumstances that 2 people from the same country could be in the same board?
The worst thing is to have statutes where people can interprete their own view on things. Statutes have to be clear and strict.

All those things should be normal in my view.
We were very often told, FISTF must come back to its members, exactly those people want to hinder others to candidate now.

Heinz

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:52 pm

What can we do if current FISTF BoD insists keeping themselves in silence ?
Without dialogue it is very difficult to get an understanding by both parts, former Bod and current one.
The imposition of rules and regulations without giving chance for discussion is anything but democratic.
This lack of communication is the worst thing that could happen in the FISTF community. This is a glaring error that will cost a lot to our sport for a long time.
I don't want to belong this community in the future if this is the way.


Last edited by Luis Filipe Horta on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:11 pm

Luis, you and me know very well that the first thing to change in september will be the improvement of the communication in general.
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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:43 pm

FISTF needs more and better dialogue between all interested parts.
The keyword is Communication.
The deletion of the FISTF Forum was a very strange and innapropriate decision and democratically unacceptable also.
This situation must be correct soon and dialogue restarted.
I challenge current and former FISTF Directors to put apart some misunderstandings and talk peacefully about the future of FISTF.
There are people in both parts with very good conditions for making a good work for FISTF. Those people must start the correct dialogue for the good of FISTF.
It's time for a clean restart.

Who accepts this challenge ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:18 pm


Noone ? Poor FISTF !!!!

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:FISTF needs more and better dialogue between all interested parts.
The keyword is Communication.
The deletion of the FISTF Forum was a very strange and innapropriate decision and democratically unacceptable also.
This situation must be correct soon and dialogue restarted.
I challenge current and former FISTF Directors to put apart some misunderstandings and talk peacefully about the future of FISTF.
There are people in both parts with very good conditions for making a good work for FISTF. Those people must start the correct dialogue for the good of FISTF.
It's time for a clean restart.

Who accepts this challenge ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:05 pm

You know that Thossa and me want to work on restauring communication, don't you? :-)
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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:05 pm

Luis, it would be the right way, but both sides MUST move and both sides MUST trust the other side.
You are totally right when you say there are people on both sides who can do positive things, but there must be somebody building the right team with the right persons in the right department.

Heinz

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
Noone ? Poor FISTF !!!!

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:FISTF needs more and better dialogue between all interested parts.
The keyword is Communication.
The deletion of the FISTF Forum was a very strange and innapropriate decision and democratically unacceptable also.
This situation must be correct soon and dialogue restarted.
I challenge current and former FISTF Directors to put apart some misunderstandings and talk peacefully about the future of FISTF.
There are people in both parts with very good conditions for making a good work for FISTF. Those people must start the correct dialogue for the good of FISTF.
It's time for a clean restart.

Who accepts this challenge ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:18 pm


Where is the other side ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  hönkki on Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:51 pm

Are the ordinary players allowed to participate in the congress or it is just for the presidents/chairmans/candidates ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:02 pm

as far as i know only a representative of the national association is allowed to take part at the congress.

Heinz

hönkki wrote:Are the ordinary players allowed to participate in the congress or it is just for the presidents/chairmans/candidates ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:02 pm

if the president can't take part, it is allowed to nominate somebody to represent the association.

Heinz

hönkki wrote:Are the ordinary players allowed to participate in the congress or it is just for the presidents/chairmans/candidates ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:39 pm

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
Where is the other side ?

No replies yet ?

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:46 pm

Of course no...
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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  zinga on Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:19 pm

I assume that the National Associations will be sent instructions on how to vote by mail. Oh, and it would help if we had an official candidate list.
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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:16 pm

It would also help to know ideas of the candidates and the preferred teams of the 2 candidates for president.
How should somebody give a vote actually?
Based on if a representative thinks about it who can do the job better, than the current member of board?

Heinz

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:56 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:It would also help to know ideas of the candidates and the preferred teams of the 2 candidates for president.
How should somebody give a vote actually?
Based on if a representative thinks about it who can do the job better, than the current member of board?

Heinz

Do you think you will read it here ? I don't think so!

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:27 pm

I don't need it, the members of FISTF (national associations) should get it.
I'm not important for the elections, the users of the forum aren't the priority too.
In the end the players should get it through the associations.

Heinz

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  zinga on Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:37 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:I don't need it, the members of FISTF (national associations) should get it.
I'm not important for the elections, the users of the forum aren't the priority too.
In the end the players should get it through the associations.
Well if the board member (me) of the national association do not get any information, he (me) just have to use a forum and try to get at least some information. And I know that our president forwards all information from FISTF to us. I assume that is not the case in all countries.
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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:48 pm

the most interesting thing is who representents will vote for, if they won't get any information till september or if they don't like the program of those people who will do the work and make a program.
I'm happy not to be in the situation to represent Austria at the voting in Rain.

Heinz

zinga wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:I don't need it, the members of FISTF (national associations) should get it.
I'm not important for the elections, the users of the forum aren't the priority too.
In the end the players should get it through the associations.
Well if the board member (me) of the national association do not get any information, he (me) just have to use a forum and try to get at least some information. And I know that our president forwards all information from FISTF to us. I assume that is not the case in all countries.

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Re: Candidates Lists for FISTF BoD elections

Post  maxischn on Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:48 pm

thanks heinz for taking that part so i can go get a drink with the team, tell me later about the elections then Razz
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