FISTF Elections

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:10 pm

Sorry that's hard to understand!??? Question

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:Interesting conversation

but with some errors "historic."

The Board of Coppenole has fallen for two reasons:

1) Why I am a traitor.

2) why Vincent did not want to completely change their minds about who ran the Board.

I recall that I have been on the board of Coppenello why I realized that the Germans actually governed rather than Vincent.

A Vincent proposed a meeting with the president, but Catania, Tagliaferri, De Francesco. (Beware, I was already, Catania and Tagliaferri).

It was his total rejection of any change (with respect to their fellow board, I think eating honored for her party) to determine the break and Congress.

Vincent repeatedly rejected a formal meeting by saying "if only 5 people going, then I will not." From there it has been an extraordinary congress.

Do not forget the story please.

A last consideration for Finnish friends, something they think in Finland if the leadership of the federation of the IIHF was an Italian? Or a Spanish (and Fran Gonzalez does not have ..)

Piero "the traitor" Capponi.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Guest on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:03 pm

The English or the concept?

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:05 pm

the english Cool

pierocapponi wrote:The English or the concept?

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Admin on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:17 pm

Not only it's had to understand but people seem to forget the history of FISTF.

FISTF is made of nations. FISTF is working well and is growing if the nations work well at national level.

National associations are made of clubs. National associations are working well are growing if the clubs are working well at club level.

I have been president from 2002, a period when nobody wanted to be int he Board because all what happened in the former years was a disaster. A disaster not because the associations where not working well but just because nobody was interested to work for other countries.

Then from 2002 to let's say the beginning of 2009, every was going rather well but some people appeared and say "all this is a mess, we need to change everything". Sorry but if people like Piero or Silvio had seen what FISTF was in 2000 or 2002, I could have understood their reaction but not what happened in 2009. Sorry but this has to be said.

In 2009, FISTF had never been as strong as it is as there were several countries back int he movement, almost 100% more players ranked than 7 years before and the international tour was stronger than ever.

OK, I agree that in Italy, the game has come to the next level and that's nice but as long as Italians will not understand that all nations are not as crazy as Italians about table football, things will never work.

I don't want to comment about Germany or Belgium or Finland but when I read about France, it's just give the right picture of what table football is at the moment. The game is run by Laurent Garnier just because nobody else is interested to be president and to organize things. Some people criticize him, some people stopped playing and some people keep on playing but nobody is going to say "I will do better than Garnier".

And that's exactly what's happening in many countries. As long as people will not have the faith to be crazy, spend hours every day to do a lot os small things (instead of just 1 or 2 big things), things will never work.

I'm convinced that if there was a "super-organizer" in Denmark, Denmark could be a power of table football. Same with the USA or Singapore or Portugal or the Netherlands. We just need people with 1000% of motivation.

Italy is a super-power, yes! But don't blame nations like Austria, Belgium, Greece or Germany because the people in place are doing their best. Their number of players are not growing? Do you really think it's because the natonal association is not working well?

The last thing for those who don't know it is that I did not refuse to work for the new Board. They just (or maybe only Sivio) refused my conditions to work with them.

I really believe that if I'm president again, we will hopefully have a "working" Board, able to do a lot of small things instead of 1 or 2 big things.

Back to the basics!
- Communication
- FISTF Tour
- World wide development
These are the keys!
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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  drastis on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:29 pm

I have been reading what members of the current BoD write in this forum and I feel some things must be said:

1. Speaking and writing English fluently is an absolute requirement when you want to run an international organisation. It is ridiculous to try building communication channels in an international community using a translator engine!!! I am really astonished by the current BoD members lack of ability to understand this.

2. If they think they can do things better why did they resign? Critisism is something they should have expected, especially after the "coup" that happened in January, so it should not be used as an excuse.

3. We all have ideas how to improve our hobby. BoD members are not judged for their ideas, they are judged for their work (or the lack of work). And the fact now is that only four months after the new BoD took over, there is a complete failure in almost every aspect:

-> In Communication Dpt, FISTF is not able even to publish results or to communicate their plans properly. The old forum was abolished and the promised new forum is still awaited. The FISTF newsletter no longer exists and FISTF web site is scarcely updated.
-> In Sports Dpt, the whole structure of major international events like the EC is blown up and the world ranking system is being abolished!! Decisions about equipment have been published before an actual solution is ready!!
-> In Finance Dpt, FISTF money is being spent in congresses before any extra income by any sponsors has been secured.
-> And the President of the BoD addresses his "subjects" only through circulars.

4. "Threatening" to create a new International Federation is a blackmail. It will help no one.

I think the current BoD members should reconsider their decisions and send delayed nominations for the posts they currently have in BoD. This is the only way to convince us that they do care and that they believe the things they say. Otherwise, their posts are simply bad english.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  von K. on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:35 pm

Caro Stefano:

The smaller countries were not asked about some decisions that would require member nations voting. Also in Frankfurt there was a vote that was not said before, so all those who weren't there couldn't vote.

de francesco wrote:

I have no respect for leaders of large countries such as Germany and France. In both countries soccer is popular like in Italy. These two countries have the same members that I have in Perugia.

In short. Soccer is popular, but the society is different. And also there was no Edilio Parodi. The base of the things now goes way back.

If France is so bad, then why did you have Laurent Garnier in the Board? Or are you also criticizing him and Catania? Of course you could do that, but then it has to be said. Othewise you cannot criticize germans (or french), if you don't criticize Garnier.

de francesco wrote:I'm just worried that these people will lose to our sport other years.

I'm worried that all this fighting will lose the whole sport as it is. It's ridiculous.

If you don't candidate, you certainly can't blame others for doing so.

I think you should start co-operation with the new board and be a part of a commission (yes, a commission with for example Heinz Eder and a couple of others) to develop the more professional side of the game. That way more people are heard and also the view of Italy will be presented.

If I would be President (it's like a school topic writing!) I would give more concrete influence to nations outside the Board by creating 2-4 commissions regarding for example the rules, professional game and marketing/promotion. With idea factorys (used by many business companys nowadays) with right minded (have views, visions and create solutions, but are not fighting) people in them, the game would benefit and almost all the countries or at least areas could feel that they are involved and important.

I don't think many nations can say that now, or even in the last years although there was better connection.


Last edited by von K. on Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Guest on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:40 pm

drastis wrote:I have been reading what members of the current BoD write in this forum and I feel some things must be said:

1. Speaking and writing English fluently is an absolute requirement when you want to run an international organisation. It is ridiculous to try building communication channels in an international community using a translator engine!!! I am really astonished by the current BoD members lack of ability to understand this.

2. If they think they can do things better why did they resign? Critisism is something they should have expected, especially after the "coup" that happened in January, so it should not be used as an excuse.

3. We all have ideas how to improve our hobby. BoD members are not judged for their ideas, they are judged for their work (or the lack of work). And the fact now is that only four months after the new BoD took over, there is a complete failure in almost every aspect:

-> In Communication Dpt, FISTF is not able even to publish results or to communicate their plans properly. The old forum was abolished and the promised new forum is still awaited. The FISTF newsletter no longer exists and FISTF web site is scarcely updated.
-> In Sports Dpt, the whole structure of major international events like the EC is blown up and the world ranking system is being abolished!! Decisions about equipment have been published before an actual solution is ready!!
-> In Finance Dpt, FISTF money is being spent in congresses before any extra income by any sponsors has been secured.
-> And the President of the BoD addresses his "subjects" only through circulars.

4. "Threatening" to create a new International Federation is a blackmail. It will help no one.

I think the current BoD members should reconsider their decisions and send delayed nominations for the posts they currently have in BoD. This is the only way to convince us that they do care and that they believe the things they say. Otherwise, their posts are simply bad english.

I agree with point 1. Also because I am a communicator and if I can not communicate well no good for this.

in section 2 ... has not been a coup. backwards, was a demonstration of democracy.

The rest is not my problem

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  von K. on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:45 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:
A last consideration for Finnish friends, something they think in Finland if the leadership of the federation of the IIHF was an Italian?

The leader of the IIHF is Rene Fasel from Switzerland, which in ice hockey is about the size of Germany in table football. And certainly smaller than for example Belgium. Also Sepp Blatter is Swiss, and we all know swiss football.

Being the best to govern something doesn't mean you have to be from the biggest country or a great player.

All I want is the best people to work for the good of the sport. I couldn't care less if they were Inuits, Aboriginals or the Saami people from Lapland, if they are the best or the job.

If Italy or Spain don't have candidates, they can't be angry if a german gets chosen. They have to convince majority of nations that they are better.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Guest on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm

von K. wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:
A last consideration for Finnish friends, something they think in Finland if the leadership of the federation of the IIHF was an Italian?

The leader of the IIHF is Rene Fasel from Switzerland, which in ice hockey is about the size of Germany in table football. And certainly smaller than for example Belgium. Also Sepp Blatter is Swiss, and we all know swiss football.

Being the best to govern something doesn't mean you have to be from the biggest country or a great player.

All I want is the best people to work for the good of the sport. I couldn't care less if they were Inuits, Aboriginals or the Saami people from Lapland, if they are the best or the job.

If Italy or Spain don't have candidates, they can't be angry if a german gets chosen. They have to convince majority of nations that they are better.

Switzerland is in hockey as well as Germany in table football?

Sure of that?

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:07 pm

There isn't a possibility to find the middle between back to the basics and start like a rocket in the future. There is a plan needed what has to be done to come to a point, but even in the point to reach there seems to be a big difference.

Honestly all the stuff here starts becoming boring. I think I can call for many nations that we only want material back in stores with information of the associations in it. Personally I don't need anything more for Austria, then i can do better work as sports director here in austria. if somebody from the future FISTF boards needs my opinion, they can contact me for sure, but for sure I won't be active for any board anymore as long as we have such a situation, when officials of countries blame each other.

It is not necessary any more to discuss about the happenings in january, I think they generally destroyed a lot in FISTF, hopefully there is somebody who can repair that again, it was a total failure, the meeting was a total failure and the results since then were very poor. Nothing happened which was decided there, and it was proposed to do such a meeting every year, some think it would be enough to work one week-end every year as it seems. When I worked for this federation I worked every day for at least 3 or 4 hours (i was not alone). If the same would be done in every national association and in every commission maybe formed in future, we wouldn't need to discuss about many things here, because they would be already solved. but please show me the people who are ready to spend that much time.
all of those candidates should ask themself if they are able to bring that effort to our federation and they should also think what benefit they could bring to our federation in the position they are candidate for. Those people have to work every day and they have to give their best, they must be example for associations and players, undependent if everybody agrees on decisions, they must have the respect for the time they spend, not respect only because of being a director or even president, they have to work for the respect every day.

Heinz

von K. wrote:Caro Stefano:

The smaller countries were not asked about some decisions that would require member nations voting. Also in Frankfurt there was a vote that was said before, so all those who weren't there couldn't vote.

de francesco wrote:

I have no respect for leaders of large countries such as Germany and France. In both countries soccer is popular like in Italy. These two countries have the same members that I have in Perugia.

In short. Soccer is popular, but the society is different. And also there was no Edilio Parodi. The base of the things now goes way back.

If France is so bad, then why did you have Laurent Garnier in the Board? Or are you also criticizing him and Catania? Of course you could do that, but then it has to be said. Othewise you cannot criticize germans (or french), if you don't criticize Garnier.

de francesco wrote:I'm just worried that these people will lose to our sport other years.

I'm worried that all this fighting will lose the whole sport as it is. It's ridiculous.

If you don't candidate, you certainly can't blame others for doing so.

I think you should start co-operation with the new board and be a part of a commission (yes, a commission with for example Heinz Eder and a couple of others) to develop the more professional side of the game. That way more people are heard and also the view of Italy will be presented.

If I would be President (it's like a school topic writing!) I would give more concrete influence to nations outside the Board by creating 2-4 commissions regarding for example the rules, professional game and marketing/promotion. With idea factorys (used by many business companys nowadays) with right minded (have views, visions and create solutions, but are not fighting) people in them, the game would benefit and almost all the countries or at least areas could feel that they are involved and important.

I don't think many nations can say that now, or even in the last years although there was better connection.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  von K. on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:54 pm

pierocapponi wrote:
Switzerland is in hockey as well as Germany in table football?

Sure of that?

Well, about. But of course it's not a perfect comparison. There are at least 7-8 countries where the sport is bigger. And in many countries a lot, lot bigger. Swiss league is only quite big because of money to buy foreigners. The only time in modern history in the top 4 in the World Championships was maybe 15 years ago.

Off topic, sorry.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:48 pm

pierocapponi wrote:One of the reasons why I resigned is that really who commanded on the board were the Germans.

Fred and Thossa were governing FISTF ? Interesting, really interesting to hear. I didn't know before ... Could you please precise it a bit more ?

Thank you.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Admin on Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:50 pm

Probably he means I was just their clerk Very Happy
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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  drastis on Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:51 pm

Anywhere we can find the official file of nominations?

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  von K. on Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:40 pm

drastis wrote:Anywhere we can find the official file of nominations?

It's just about to be published, I think. So we shouldn't expect it before October...

Sorry if that's mean, but I'm still waiting for the new FISTF Forum that was opened in April.

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:07 am

von K. wrote:It's just about to be published, I think.

The board had a TelCo on tuesday. I think it was about the admission of the nominations ... we will get an answer as soon as possible (I hope).

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Thossa on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:44 pm

Admin wrote:Elections every 4 years is a bad thing. Every 2 years would be much better, I think.

I´m right there with you Exclamation
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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Thossa on Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:38 am

No joke?
Janus Gersie responsible for developing in France?
Anything wrong with Laurent Garnier, Stefano?



de francesco wrote:If Coppenolle will be chaiman of the board it is impossible for me cooperate.

My support is for Silvio Catania.

Only for joke i tell my idea:

Silvio Catania - President
Stefano Tagliaferri - Secretary and comunication
Piero Capponi - Marketing and media
Alan Collins - Finance
Stefano De Francesco - Sport

For Sport : Organization, calendar and Tournaments Heinz Eder; Ranking Freddy Paerdens; Development in Europe: Josè Carlos Guerrero (Spain, Portugal and Gibraltar), Janus Gersie (Germany, France, Switzerland, Nederland, Austria), Mike Burns & John Lauder (Great Britain & Ireland), Vesa Kouvonkorpi (Scandinavian area), .................... (East Europe).
Youth development : Juan Carlos Granados, Pierceleste Zambello, Oliver Pere, Eric Verhagen.
(Diversamente abili) Disability: Gianni Guercia

I think that will be a good team.
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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  de francesco on Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:55 am

Do not always try to create a controversy.

Not because it indicates a person means that you have a problem with another.

It would be better to discuss the proposal. You are the candidate I will not. My fear is that we risk losing another four years. Vincent would be a good secretary for communication but as President is a disaster. He don't think that football table can become important, he don't think that we can reach 10,000 players, he has no vision for the future.


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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Admin on Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:59 am

We must stop speaking about "developping the game in xxx". it's the job of the national associations. It's up to the french players to develop the game in France and the same goes for every country. FISTF has enough to do. Sometimes it's better to have less ambition but to do things correctly instead of trying to launch big ideas that will never work because we don't have the men for that.

I have fun to read about "development" but as long as the results of Bologna are not yet available and the world rankings were not finished in due time (for the tournament played this week-end), it means FISTF did not do a good job!
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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Thossa on Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:16 am

de francesco wrote:Do not always try to create a controversy.

Not because it indicates a person means that you have a problem with another.


Sorry, but it looks funny to see Janus Gersie´s name instead of Laurent Garnier. That much is clear.
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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  de francesco on Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:23 am

If you want we can discuss the proposal

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Re: FISTF Elections

Post  Thossa on Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:44 am

What for? Janus Gersie is president of the worst association... (your words).
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