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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri May 28, 2010 10:40 am

Why do candidates for president, marketing director, financial director, general secretary or communication director need to be member of an association. I agree with you in case of a sports director, but the others don't need to have any relationship with the sport they are working for, they only need to read the work flow for the whole back office work.

About organizers and players it is a question of philosophy, if they need to be members of the association or not. Generally you are right, if a club is not member of the association they shouldn't be allowed to organize a tournament for that association.
In case of the players you are not obliged to be member in Austria if you play youth championships, because we try to use those events for promotion and there also should be newcomers allowed to play with the "pros".

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:Of course Heinz,

provided they play any tournament organized by the association itself. It may be a regional tournament, local, national or international. But if you participate at a single tournament official must be a member of their association.
It is so in all sports in the world.

You can play tennis with your friends, or golf, or Biliardo, but if you play an official tournament, even in your neighborhood, you have to be a player card.

Of course, if it has no intention of participating in any tournament .... you do not need the card.

The card, for example, would have to demonstrate that you know the rules of the game.

I know a lot of players from very different sports that he has no license ..... until the day that do not have to make an official competition.
In addition there are very many sports insurance, medical certificates etc. for players who play official events.

By the way, I spoke also of civil liability insurance for organizers of tournaments .....

.... Or privacy laws or the publication of photos of children who won the tournament without authorization, in writing, of their parents.

These are some of the differences between a sport and a group of friends playing in garages

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Fri May 28, 2010 11:43 am

Heinz was talking about the players not the managers.

Naturally you do not need not even be looking for roles that you said at the international level.

I've always said that the director of marketing for Coca-Cola could be the director of marketing for FISTF much better than one of the best players in the world.

But then if the director of the Coca-Cola ... playing a tournament, you have to be involved ....

But it is good that this person has positive references in their country of origin and in its curriculum ..

If FISTF would like to have as a director , the SKY communications director, clearly it would be good, but not so well known, the opinion of those responsible for the country is fundamental.

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Re: This

Post  Janus_Gersie on Sat May 29, 2010 12:12 pm

pierocapponi wrote: I've always said that the director of marketing for Coca-Cola could be the director of marketing for FISTF much better than one of the best players in the world.
If FISTF would like to have as a director , the SKY communications director, clearly it would be good, but not so well known, the opinion of those responsible for the country is fundamental.

Valid and well made points, Piero. I think we have to split between a position within the board and a position within the management.

We need a boad that should consist of "political" members. The composition of the board should take into account things like
- strongest association
- smallest association
- etc etc

and should steer the political way forward. The board should define the overall strategy and should smooth the way forward into the right direction.

The management should do the work. It should bring the strategy into life and should work as professional as possible. As I always said: FISTF needs a fulltime promotion manager. The first year FISTF should pay him/her. As from the second year he should pay himself. That could be reached if he/she was able to gain as much profit as he/she needs to be paid ...

What do you think ?


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Re: This

Post  Thossa on Sat May 29, 2010 1:22 pm

I second that.
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Re: This

Post  von K. on Sat May 29, 2010 2:23 pm

Janus' idea sounds good to me. It's the normal practice in most bigger institutions, I think. At the moment the Board also has too much work considering they are practically working pro bono.

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Sat May 29, 2010 7:26 pm

I totally agree with Jenus.

We need someone who thinks his workday by the FISTF.

most likely, in addition, the second year can pay simply with the sponsors, that the same get money.

This person would have that be the true engine of the FISTF.

I am an NGO administration adviser. Since we have a girl working for us we are much more organized and raise much more money.

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Re: This

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon May 31, 2010 4:18 pm

pierocapponi wrote:This person would have that be the true engine of the FISTF.

That leaves one question: how to get the money for the first year .....
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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:35 am

Janus_Gersie wrote:
pierocapponi wrote:This person would have that be the true engine of the FISTF.

That leaves one question: how to get the money for the first year .....

That will be easy!!

FISTF can just fine everyone for no reason like they have done with us/me. I got a 5euro fine, wasn't told about it then its not ballooned up to 30 euros without any prior warnings or demands for payments.

Its like a bank or credit card company giving you a small fine, not telling you about it for 10 years then sending a letter saying you are due them 21 trillion pounds!!! Laughing

I think i'm actually going to send an SSTFA fine to FISTF and once that is settled then i will the FISTF fine. Twisted Evil

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:28 pm

Mike, you are tournament organizer and you have to know what is written down in the handbook. Read it and then you will understand the reason for the fines.

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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:19 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Mike, you are tournament organizer and you have to know what is written down in the handbook. Read it and then you will understand the reason for the fines.

Heinz

Well if that is the case then Heinz, it is also the tournament organisers responsibility to make sure the draw and fixtures are set out in the correct order. Because at one tournament the fixtures were done incorrectly a Greek team cheated my own team. If the tournament organiser had done the fixtures correctly then the Greek team would have cheated the Belgian team instead. I dont think there were any sanctions against the tournament organiser here. There were definitely no sanctions against the Greek team that cheated my own team.

it ruined our tournament and wasted our journey.

So, once the tournament organiser is fined for not following procedures and my team is re-imburst for expenses accrued on that wasted journey i will pay the fine. I dont care who takes responsibility for paying the money, FISTF, the tournament organisers or the Greeks.

The sums payable are:

Mike Burns - 250 euros
Robert Ramsay - 250 euros
Algy Taylor - 250 Euros
Dave Wouters - 50 Euros

If we knew we were going to be treated so shabbily and cheated we would not have made the trip and therefore saved the money.

Before anyone asks we lodged a complaint and appeal right there and then at the tournament with the organiser and FISTF board - we basically got told "no way". You can bet though if this had of been a bigger team something would have happened to change it.

Anyway - Thats my conditions for paying the FISTF fine. It has to be a level playing field for all!!!

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Re: This

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:25 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Mike, you are tournament organizer and you have to know what is written down in the handbook. Read it and then you will understand the reason for the fines.

But even if he knows the handbook
1. he doesn't know what have been charged because nobody told him about his erratic behaviour
2. there is no formal procedure (e.g. no possibility to appeal.

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:26 pm

Mike, honestly I don't care if you pay or not, the FISTF Board has to deal with you.
I'm neither in the actual board nor candidate for any future board.

So I wish you good luck, maybe somebody promise you that you don't need to pay, if you will give a scottish vote!?

Heinz

mikeburns wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Mike, you are tournament organizer and you have to know what is written down in the handbook. Read it and then you will understand the reason for the fines.

Heinz

Well if that is the case then Heinz, it is also the tournament organisers responsibility to make sure the draw and fixtures are set out in the correct order. Because at one tournament the fixtures were done incorrectly a Greek team cheated my own team. If the tournament organiser had done the fixtures correctly then the Greek team would have cheated the Belgian team instead. I dont think there were any sanctions against the tournament organiser here. There were definitely no sanctions against the Greek team that cheated my own team.

it ruined our tournament and wasted our journey.

So, once the tournament organiser is fined for not following procedures and my team is re-imburst for expenses accrued on that wasted journey i will pay the fine. I dont care who takes responsibility for paying the money, FISTF, the tournament organisers or the Greeks.

The sums payable are:

Mike Burns - 250 euros
Robert Ramsay - 250 euros
Algy Taylor - 250 Euros
Dave Wouters - 50 Euros

If we knew we were going to be treated so shabbily and cheated we would not have made the trip and therefore saved the money.

Before anyone asks we lodged a complaint and appeal right there and then at the tournament with the organiser and FISTF board - we basically got told "no way". You can bet though if this had of been a bigger team something would have happened to change it.

Anyway - Thats my conditions for paying the FISTF fine. It has to be a level playing field for all!!!

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:36 pm

Janus, the list of sanctions is updated regulary, if it is not published please send an official complaint to the current FISTF Board.

Nobody cares when Freddy has to ask several times for birth dates or absent players before making the WR. FISTF asks money for the extra efforts done by the sports department because of missing information of several tournaments or when results are sent in a bad format.

Of course FISTF could send a letter to remind those organizers that they need to send their sheets, that could be officially sent as request to the FISTF board.

Heinz

Janus_Gersie wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Mike, you are tournament organizer and you have to know what is written down in the handbook. Read it and then you will understand the reason for the fines.

But even if he knows the handbook
1. he doesn't know what have been charged because nobody told him about his erratic behaviour
2. there is no formal procedure (e.g. no possibility to appeal.

Janus

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Re: This

Post  von K. on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:31 pm

mikeburns wrote:
Well if that is the case then Heinz, it is also the tournament organisers responsibility to make sure the draw and fixtures are set out in the correct order. Because at one tournament the fixtures were done incorrectly a Greek team cheated my own team. If the tournament organiser had done the fixtures correctly then the Greek team would have cheated the Belgian team instead. I dont think there were any sanctions against the tournament organiser here. There were definitely no sanctions against the Greek team that cheated my own team.

It would be interesting to know when, which tournament and what happened? Maybe the last forum had something on this, but at least I don't know what this is about.

If there was something fishy, and FISTF didn't do anything, I understand better your frustration.

In the future such things (organizers not following the rules or other problems) have to dealt with by the FISTF, and also all the TF people must help them do this. But the scottish vote really should be used to select the best people to prevent this and take action against these things.

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm

Mons 5 or 6 years ago.

Heinz

von K. wrote:
mikeburns wrote:
Well if that is the case then Heinz, it is also the tournament organisers responsibility to make sure the draw and fixtures are set out in the correct order. Because at one tournament the fixtures were done incorrectly a Greek team cheated my own team. If the tournament organiser had done the fixtures correctly then the Greek team would have cheated the Belgian team instead. I dont think there were any sanctions against the tournament organiser here. There were definitely no sanctions against the Greek team that cheated my own team.

It would be interesting to know when, which tournament and what happened? Maybe the last forum had something on this, but at least I don't know what this is about.

If there was something fishy, and FISTF didn't do anything, I understand better your frustration.

In the future such things (organizers not following the rules or other problems) have to dealt with by the FISTF, and also all the TF people must help them do this. But the scottish vote really should be used to select the best people to prevent this and take action against these things.

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Re: This

Post  Eoin on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:52 pm

mikeburns wrote: If the tournament organiser had done the fixtures correctly then the Greek team would have cheated the Belgian team instead.

So the situation would have been more acceptable if the Belgian team had been cheated? Very Happy
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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:03 pm

Eoin wrote:
mikeburns wrote: If the tournament organiser had done the fixtures correctly then the Greek team would have cheated the Belgian team instead.

So the situation would have been more acceptable if the Belgian team had been cheated? Very Happy

For me, Yes! Why should we be punished for playing fair!

Best of all would have been for the Greeks to be thrown out the tournament.

We lost to the Greeks 2-0 then we beat the belgians 3-1 I think. The belgians then beat the greeks 3-0 or something with scores of 5-0, 4-0, 6-0. Only Eugene Plytas had the balls to stand up to his captain and not cheat.

The captain of the Greek team then told me that his team planned to finish second because it was an easier draw for them. If the tournament organiser had done the draw properly then the greeks would have let us beat them but because the organiser had done the incorrect sequence of matches then they "had" to let the belgian team beat them.

FISTF and the tournament organisers failed to act.

So who is at fault here?

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Re: This

Post  maxischn on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:18 pm

i still can't see any cheating, just a good and normal tactical decision....
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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:34 pm

maxischn wrote:i still can't see any cheating, just a good and normal tactical decision....

Like the time Germany and Austria refeused to score against each other years agon in the World Cup! Bravo!!!!

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Re: This

Post  maxischn on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:36 pm

(not that i can remember, sorry but..)


so what? never happend in (real) football or icehockey? just in tablesoccer? -.-
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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:44 pm

maxischn wrote:(not that i can remember, sorry but..)


so what? never happend in (real) football or icehockey? just in tablesoccer? -.-

So losing a game on purpose is ok? - LOL what a joke!

So you know nothing of Austria deliberating losing 1-0 to West Germany at the 1982 World Cup??

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Re: This

Post  Thossa on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:00 pm

I was sunken in my armchair in shame pale

But this is not good as well: 1969: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnvgOlzdo04

Watch out what Müller did before he scored the goal. affraid
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Re: This

Post  von K. on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:25 pm

I can understand the fury, but it's a dificult thing to prevent. Maybe without the use of goal difference and with a shoot-out on level points also in the team event. Especially in groups of three this is necessary.

But being the host nations' club and doing that in a small amateur game like ours, it's disgusting and lacking respect for the foreigners who travel and spend money. What would the greek team think if it was the subject of similar actions.

In Finland we feel that the foreigners must be made welcome. For example in the Helsinki Open there was a group of three with two good finnish players and a foreigner. It was pointed out that even though the schedule was correct, it could be unfair if the finnish players met in the last game of the group. We knew it wouldn't happen and assured the foreigners of that, but still made the change to clear every possibility of bad feelings in case of a fair result that would be fishy for some (a bit like the Sweden-Denmark 2-2 in the Euro 2004 that dropped Italy).

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Re: This

Post  Admin on Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:41 am

What blackmail attempt?
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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:51 am

Admin wrote:What blackmail attempt?

Amazing you should bring that up today "Admin." I was just cleaning out old emails and I came across those e-mails. I thought i would keep them just incase I had to ever refer back to them!

the blackmail attempt was the one where the old board tried to blackmail the new one into pulling out the elections.

here is the e-mail...

> It has been brought to our attention that you has had several issues
> with the maltese justice in the past (e.g.
> charged with misappropriating funds by Melieha local council, which is
> a clear case of fraud).
>
> We believe that the president of FISTF as highest representative of
> the global governing body of table football must act with full
> integrity. Any behaviour causing a disturbance must be avoided. It is
> not up to us to value the behaviour of you. We only care about FISTF.
> We cannot be sure that you will work with full fidelity for FISTF.
> Therefore we give you the chance to cancel your candidature for
> president latest tomorrow (8:00 CET,, 22 January 2010). You could
> save face. In case of not cancelling your candidature we feel obliged
> to publish the matter and to confrontate your team with the above
> mentioned court case.
>
> Regards
> Th. Büsing


And here is the definition of "Blackmail" "Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand made upon the victim is met."

So "Admin", are you telling me that the old board didnt try to blackmail the new one...?? Laughing Laughing Shocked

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