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Re: This

Post  Janus_Gersie on Thu May 27, 2010 12:57 am

mikeburns wrote:I wouldnt expect Scotland to vote for anyone in this new election.

Mike,
did you ever hear the word "RESPONSIBILITY"? At least it was also Scotland asking for the congres ...
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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 9:00 am

we should remember that we vote as a bloc frankfurth express request of the board under old.

They had not had time to submit a complete list.

This is the official motivation.

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 9:05 am

as of today:

Silvio Catania an Vincent Coppenolle and are candidates for presidents.

Venton, Collins and Horta are candidates for membership.

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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Thu May 27, 2010 10:12 am

Janus_Gersie wrote:
mikeburns wrote:I wouldnt expect Scotland to vote for anyone in this new election.

Mike,
did you ever hear the word "RESPONSIBILITY"? At least it was also Scotland asking for the congres ...

Janus,
Did you ever hear the words "butt out" and "mind your own business". I've never commented on anything to do with Germany so I dont think you should poke your nose into Scotlands affairs.

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu May 27, 2010 10:17 am

Hi Piero,
thx for that information, I hope there will follow more candidates from the current board.
Personally I wouldn't understand it, if people who wanted to be on the board stop now, 6 months after they were elected in Frankfurt.
If not I hope those people won't make the mistake to make others outside the board responsible for not being candidate any more, it is normal not to have only fans, and the old board also was blamed in a way which was not very nice particullary, as maxischn wrote in another discussion, a board has to stand above insults from single people.

Would be great if you would keep the forum informed about following candidates officially sent to the board.

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:as of today:

Silvio Catania an Vincent Coppenolle and are candidates for presidents.

Venton, Collins and Horta are candidates for membership.

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Re: This

Post  EFM on Thu May 27, 2010 2:13 pm

pierocapponi wrote:as of today:

Silvio Catania an Vincent Coppenolle and are candidates for presidents.

Venton, Collins and Horta are candidates for membership.

Who's Venton ?
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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 2:21 pm

Hi Heinz

The problem of abuse is very serious. Especially because those who do are not people desconocidads, are former executives or managers who insult others.

When Coppenole insulted me, insulted the president of the Spanish Federation and Spain as a whole. If this man back to win that type of relationship is expected from Spain? Or Italy, which De Francesco is vice president?

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu May 27, 2010 2:40 pm

Personal differences never should be the reason for resignation! Anyway if that's the case it will only proof one more time that Frankfurt was lost time in the end, and this lost time cost many people reputation in the community.
I don't think it is right to say, if you feel insulted by somebody, he insults all spanish players and the whole spanish association. Would you say on the other side if a person would insult you and that person is member of a board of an association, that all members of that association insulted you and all members of your association?
If you think like that, it would be enough if 2 representants of associations have a problem, that all players of both associations have problems with each other!?? Evil or Very Mad

Heinz



pierocapponi wrote:Hi Heinz

The problem of abuse is very serious. Especially because those who do are not people desconocidads, are former executives or managers who insult others.

When Coppenole insulted me, insulted the president of the Spanish Federation and Spain as a whole. If this man back to win that type of relationship is expected from Spain? Or Italy, which De Francesco is vice president?

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Re: This

Post  SergLoureiro on Thu May 27, 2010 2:59 pm

mikeburns wrote: I wouldnt expect Scotland to vote for anyone in this new election.

Mike, i 100% agree with you, will be the best option for sure... Actually, i think all of this is worse than a lyric theater scene... Laughing


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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

So if the President of Austria offends Zapatero, no nothing happens?

He always say "I have problems with Zapatero but I have no problems with the Spanish who have voted."

I'm on the board of FISTF rapresentando to Spain is Spain that has commanded my candidacy (Raul Benita signature), I'm not alone rapresentando Piero Capponi.

In a very small world like ours the insult and the disqualification has been transformed into something "normal." For me it is not.

You can change your mind, you can change partners, but you can not lose the respect of the roles. If this happens, we enter the absolute confusion.

Ques is just where the football table.

Look at this forum, many threads are talking about useless things and how talking about important things like promote the game?

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu May 27, 2010 3:16 pm

Piero please don't provocate people by telling those people whos association is not represented on the board that you represent only 1 association, because you know it as well as me, that in the current statutes it is not possible that all associations are represented on the board.
In the end you want to tell me that if Austria and Spain for an example send an idea to the same topic, you always have to choose the spanish idea, because you represent them?

I hope I'm wrong.

Heinz


pierocapponi wrote:So if the President of Austria offends Zapatero, no nothing happens?

He always say "I have problems with Zapatero but I have no problems with the Spanish who have voted."

I'm on the board of FISTF rapresentando to Spain is Spain that has commanded my candidacy (Raul Benita signature), I'm not alone rapresentando Piero Capponi.

In a very small world like ours the insult and the disqualification has been transformed into something "normal." For me it is not.

You can change your mind, you can change partners, but you can not lose the respect of the roles. If this happens, we enter the absolute confusion.

Ques is just where the football table.

Look at this forum, many threads are talking about useless things and how talking about important things like promote the game?

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 3:22 pm

Heinz sorry, I do not think I explained well. I speak only rapresentatividad.

People who are on the board represent their country because it is the country that sends them.

The ideas that are always the best choice, and it is important to know where they come from.

But I was talking about something else.

If you were president of Austria, whether as such was present in a commission and I insulted you do not believe that your country would very happy with me.

I explained better? (Sorry for my English).

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 3:29 pm

I add two things:

maybe now the best solution would be a gathering of presidents.

When I presented by the FISTF, the first time, I have spoken earlier with the AFM, when I was in Rotterdam with the AFM talk before (and were Gomez and Granados), before going to talk to the AFM Frankurth and explained my ideas , Next June 12 AFM explain to me why not recur.

I have always asked permission and I have given explanations to the AFM (today its board are seven people).

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu May 27, 2010 3:38 pm

I understood what you wanted to say, but the problem starts for me already with the situation that a president of an association has to nominate somebody.
You open many doors that some people maybe can not be candidate. I imagine already some people who will come and say, if somebody wants to nominated for an example, he needs to be member of the association and has to pay membership fee.
What if I don't want to be member of the association because of several reasons, but I think I can do good things in FISTF? Why do I have to represent an association? Is it important if an idea is coming from Austria, Spain, France, Malta or somewhere else (sorry to all those countries I didn't mention, it was not personal). The important thing is that there is a good idea sent by somebody who thinks about how to make things better, and there is somebody ready to discuss about his idea with the board. If you want that associations have more power you can easily support them on the player's sector, but in the board the nationality is not important.
We have a problem in many associations, that people are not happy, when the association has success and some people are not involved actively as player or board member. The FISTF Board shouldn't be an example for that.
In case of your example of course some people wouldn't be happy, but I'm not the kind of person who wants others to feel offended personally, only because somebody insults me personally. Maybe you are right in case of many others.


pierocapponi wrote:Heinz sorry, I do not think I explained well. I speak only rapresentatividad.

People who are on the board represent their country because it is the country that sends them.

The ideas that are always the best choice, and it is important to know where they come from.

But I was talking about something else.

If you were president of Austria, whether as such was present in a commission and I insulted you do not believe that your country would very happy with me.

I explained better? (Sorry for my English).

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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu May 27, 2010 3:49 pm

I never asked the austrian federation about FISTF matters before there was sent out an official communication to all associations, because it isn't fair.

only some questions about that:

How can you know that the majority of associations always have the same opinion of 7 people in Spain?
You discuss about topics with 7 people in spain, when other 30 board members of all member associations even don't know anything about your plan?
Do you agree with me that actually 7 people in Spain decide what should happen in FISTF Marketing department?
Do you agree with me that 7 people in spain are better informed about Marketing matters in FISTF than the rest of FISTF?
Do you agree with me that 7 people in spain have more influence on your decisions than the rest of FISTF?

I don't want to attack the board members of the spanish association, but reading your words make me understanding, what you thought about the last board members and why maybe some others thought too, the previous board only worked for the Northern Europe and their own countries, but i can swear that the austrian federation never had any benefit as long as I worked in FISTF.

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:I add two things:

maybe now the best solution would be a gathering of presidents.

When I presented by the FISTF, the first time, I have spoken earlier with the AFM, when I was in Rotterdam with the AFM talk before (and were Gomez and Granados), before going to talk to the AFM Frankurth and explained my ideas , Next June 12 AFM explain to me why not recur.

I have always asked permission and I have given explanations to the AFM (today its board are seven people).

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Re: This

Post  Admin on Thu May 27, 2010 3:54 pm

I don't think it's smart to say "Coppenolle insulted Capponi" or whatever. Everyone is aware that there were many circumstances where a lot of collateral damages were caused and if people can't agree with that, then I'm sorry but once again, I believe that some people have really missed the chance to prove their honesty. I insulted Piero Capponi and I really believe the things I said (that you like it or not) because when someones lies to me or betrays me, he loses my respect forever.

Now to say that if I'm elected the relationship between FISTF and Spain will be bad only proves Capponi is taking things on a personal level and not for the good of Spain. Sorry but this has to be said.

Finally that the same Capponi is threating me to go to court because I insulted him (I told him my opinion about him in private as well) is another problem but to me it only proves he is not able to make the analyse of what he did right and what he did wrong.

Now it would be better to talk about the future and constructive thins instead of blaming others all the time.
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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 5:08 pm

Heinz, I'm sorry but we are doing a lot of confusion:

- In all sports in the world to simply participate, play, power to represent you must be a member of the federation itself. It is a scandal that has players who have no inscription on his own federation. I repeat, is not allowed in any sport.

- It is normal that is the national association that gives the nod to that may arise. It's normal. I do not think anyone besides this veto to anyone. I think rather it is a nice excuse for not coming.

- Nationality is not important. what is important is ideas.

- The problem of offenses, I repeat, is not about people, if not what they represent. You do not have problems that will offend you? ok. and the country you represent? and the company where you work? Nor do you care ok? And your family? ok. But that is not built anything.

- I can not explain. I explained to the AFM: "I will put on ma, you okay?" and "this is what I say." is a sign of respect, not a query. is basic trust and know that I do things right.

- No, marketing decisions are my department, not the board of the AFM. has nothing to do.

- My collaborators (warrior and Quiles, who has made the new style guide) may know more than others but that's OK, I speak with them daily. You probably know most of the decisions I sports.

- All "influence" my decisions. In and out of table football. I try to pick up good ideas from anywhere, copying if necessary. Cheating is good, avoid errors. We are not in school, an error here means too much time. So it's more likely influences Carlos Pinero (my boss) or the director of Marketing for Real Madrid to the AFM.

- Heinz sorry but I do not understand and I do not know. I am a marketing professional. I peeled five months with Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester, Inter, Fifa etc .. to put the logo FISTF (in addition to AFM, FISCT, ESTFA, etc. ..) in the cases of Total Soccer? For what? To sell more boxes? You think that a box bearing the shield of Madrid and Barcelona need the logo of the FISTF to sell?

- For the AFM is just a very bad news that I work for FISTF. I spend less time, energy and money to the AFM.

- I do not think the previous board work only for Northern Europe. I believe that the previous board has not had the humility to see that other sites were doing well. Ask how often the president of the previous FISTF has gone to Italy to watch a tournament. Outside the world 0! Italy has 55% of the players of the world table soccer ... It's like the president of the FIR (rugby) has not ever traveled to the UK.

- One more example? Some friends of yours will be in Bologna this weekend. on Monday, questions about the tournament and then find the best candidates last years tournament ....

Heinz A hug.

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Re: This

Post  Admin on Thu May 27, 2010 5:20 pm

pierocapponi wrote:- I do not think the previous board work only for Northern Europe. I believe that the previous board has not had the humility to see that other sites were doing well. Ask how often the president of the previous FISTF has gone to Italy to watch a tournament. Outside the world 0! Italy has 55% of the players of the world table soccer ... It's like the president of the FIR (rugby) has not ever traveled to the UK.
In FISTF, Italy is about 28% of the players. Everybody knows Italy is the number 1 nation and we all agree about it.

The thing is that FISTF is a world association where Australia is as important as Italy and Gibraltar is as much important as Greece.

We don't only need to see what's happening in italy, we need to see what's happening every where.

In Curling (an olympic sport), about 90% of the players in the world are Canadians but I don't thing the world association of Curling is blaming other nations for not being "as strong as Canada".

It's a question of culture, tradition, passion,... and as long as people will not understand that all countries are different, we'll never move in the right direction.
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Re: This

Post  mikeburns on Thu May 27, 2010 5:24 pm

I think everyone is an "idiot"!!

I think Vincent will agree with this comment!

I take you all back to the point of my original post -

This forum is only used for old board and new board to argue!! And its hilarious!

FISTF like this is no use to anyone anymore. I think we'll just concentrate on Scotland from now on and try to forget FISTF exists in the main. They are of no help to a country like ours, never helped us since about 2000 and not likely to ever help again.

FISTF - Old board or new board is only interested in themselves and a group of about 5 nations.

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Thu May 27, 2010 5:51 pm

Interestingly, the neo candidate for president changes the tone and says: "Now it would be Better to talk about the future and constructive INSTEAD OF Blaming Others thins all the time."

Ok, Vincent I've betrayed, I changed my mind. I left the board showed me why he had no intention of changing things. You've convinced me to come in again because I have shown that wanted to change things. For it is treason? ok. Entitles you to insult me? No.

I did not say that Spain's position would conflict with the FISTF. I said I want to know how the new president, if Coppenolle, will sit with the president of the AFM to discuss any argument, given that he has spent the last six months to insult?

I stand here. I do not want to continue discussing the past with someone who has cried and complained thousand times over the years he had lost in FISTF ... then again ..... candide

We want a constructive discussion? Ok, go ahead, beyond just ideas and personal attacks.

I hope the new program happy to talk about it. (No sarcasm)

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Re: This

Post  Admin on Thu May 27, 2010 6:52 pm

mikeburns wrote:I think everyone is an "idiot"!!
I think Vincent will agree with this comment!.
Yes, I'm an idiot myself and I know it. If I was not an idiot, I would just give up and find another hobby or just concentrate on playing.

mikeburns wrote:This forum is only used for old board and new board to argue!! And its hilarious!
Maybe but that's not the goal...

mikeburns wrote:FISTF like this is no use to anyone anymore. I think we'll just concentrate on Scotland from now on and try to forget FISTF exists in the main. They are of no help to a country like ours, never helped us since about 2000 and not likely to ever help again.!
Honestly, what help do you expect from FISTF?

mikeburns wrote:FISTF - Old board or new board is only interested in themselves and a group of about 5 nations.
Hum, ask the guys in Australia, Singapore, Finland, Argentina,... if I was not interested in them. I agree that with some nations (for instance the US) the relations where more difficult because they expected much more from FISTF (what I can understand) but in general the relations with the small countries (inside or outside Europe) were positive.
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Re: This

Post  Admin on Thu May 27, 2010 7:00 pm

pierocapponi wrote:Interestingly, the neo candidate for president changes the tone and says: "Now it would be Better to talk about the future and constructive INSTEAD OF Blaming Others thins all the time."

Ok, Vincent I've betrayed, I changed my mind. I left the board showed me why he had no intention of changing things. You've convinced me to come in again because I have shown that wanted to change things. For it is treason? ok. Entitles you to insult me? No.

I did not say that Spain's position would conflict with the FISTF. I said I want to know how the new president, if Coppenolle, will sit with the president of the AFM to discuss any argument, given that he has spent the last six months to insult?

I stand here. I do not want to continue discussing the past with someone who has cried and complained thousand times over the years he had lost in FISTF ... then again ..... candide

We want a constructive discussion? Ok, go ahead, beyond just ideas and personal attacks.

I hope the new program happy to talk about it. (No sarcasm)
Piero, I got your private message and I thiank you.
But apart from that, I will never forget your personality. When we met for the first time, i did not trust you. You made everything possible to gain my confidence and when I finally thought you could deserve 50% of my confidence, you betrayed me. Sorry but I can not forget it. OK, it's history. You promised (another time) to retire from FISTF and I hope you will keep your promise. You're a businessman. You have much more to give for the game by distributing material than by being involved in the Board.

If I'm candidate again, I don't do it for my own pride but as a duty for a body I worked for for more than 7 years. Now thet the philosophy of FISTF has totally changed and that all the departments that were working well (communication, FISTF tour, helping the small associations) are not working well anymore, I feel it's my duty to come back.

In september, according to the results of the votes, it will be time enough for me to decide what I have to do. So wait & see...
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Re: This

Post  von K. on Thu May 27, 2010 9:49 pm

mikeburns wrote:I think everyone is an "idiot"!!

Yes, goes for the whole human race.

mikeburns wrote:
FISTF like this is no use to anyone anymore. I think we'll just concentrate on Scotland from now on and try to forget FISTF exists in the main. They are of no help to a country like ours, never helped us since about 2000 and not likely to ever help again.

FISTF - Old board or new board is only interested in themselves and a group of about 5 nations.

I have to say that at least Finland has had help from FISTF the last 3-4 years when we have made progress.

I know that the US and GB have been a bit in the shadows for the FISTF, and some decisions have been strange. But then again maybe a wee bit of responsibility is also in the nations themselves. How active and reasonable have the federations been. Even though it would only be FISTF's fault, you can vote, and try to do something. The new players that are interested in international games should be thought of, too.

I don't know what you expect. FISTF is very small (and run by amateurs who have their private jobs, too) and can't do wonders. It's more for keeping the whole thing together (the tournaments and ranking for example) and trying to help a bit with the development of the sport where necessary.

But the fact that you follow this forum says that either you don't have a tv or pc to watch british humour on or you still care a wee bit. I'll have a whisky for the latter.

Heinz Eder wrote:Is it important if an idea is coming from Austria, Spain, France, Malta or somewhere else (sorry to all those countries I didn't mention, it was not personal).

It's good that you said sorry. We northern barbarians were already sharpening the mallets...

Nowadays you can't be too careful...


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Re: This

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri May 28, 2010 10:03 am

Piero,
how should an external become a board member with that system? Does he need to join an association without having played ever a single game?

Heinz
pierocapponi wrote:Heinz, I'm sorry but we are doing a lot of confusion:

- In all sports in the world to simply participate, play, power to represent you must be a member of the federation itself. It is a scandal that has players who have no inscription on his own federation. I repeat, is not allowed in any sport.

- It is normal that is the national association that gives the nod to that may arise. It's normal. I do not think anyone besides this veto to anyone. I think rather it is a nice excuse for not coming.

- Nationality is not important. what is important is ideas.

- The problem of offenses, I repeat, is not about people, if not what they represent. You do not have problems that will offend you? ok. and the country you represent? and the company where you work? Nor do you care ok? And your family? ok. But that is not built anything.

- I can not explain. I explained to the AFM: "I will put on ma, you okay?" and "this is what I say." is a sign of respect, not a query. is basic trust and know that I do things right.

- No, marketing decisions are my department, not the board of the AFM. has nothing to do.

- My collaborators (warrior and Quiles, who has made the new style guide) may know more than others but that's OK, I speak with them daily. You probably know most of the decisions I sports.

- All "influence" my decisions. In and out of table football. I try to pick up good ideas from anywhere, copying if necessary. Cheating is good, avoid errors. We are not in school, an error here means too much time. So it's more likely influences Carlos Pinero (my boss) or the director of Marketing for Real Madrid to the AFM.

- Heinz sorry but I do not understand and I do not know. I am a marketing professional. I peeled five months with Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester, Inter, Fifa etc .. to put the logo FISTF (in addition to AFM, FISCT, ESTFA, etc. ..) in the cases of Total Soccer? For what? To sell more boxes? You think that a box bearing the shield of Madrid and Barcelona need the logo of the FISTF to sell?

- For the AFM is just a very bad news that I work for FISTF. I spend less time, energy and money to the AFM.

- I do not think the previous board work only for Northern Europe. I believe that the previous board has not had the humility to see that other sites were doing well. Ask how often the president of the previous FISTF has gone to Italy to watch a tournament. Outside the world 0! Italy has 55% of the players of the world table soccer ... It's like the president of the FIR (rugby) has not ever traveled to the UK.

- One more example? Some friends of yours will be in Bologna this weekend. on Monday, questions about the tournament and then find the best candidates last years tournament ....

Heinz A hug.

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Re: This

Post  Guest on Fri May 28, 2010 10:24 am

Of course Heinz,

provided they play any tournament organized by the association itself. It may be a regional tournament, local, national or international. But if you participate at a single tournament official must be a member of their association.
It is so in all sports in the world.

You can play tennis with your friends, or golf, or Biliardo, but if you play an official tournament, even in your neighborhood, you have to be a player card.

Of course, if it has no intention of participating in any tournament .... you do not need the card.

The card, for example, would have to demonstrate that you know the rules of the game.

I know a lot of players from very different sports that he has no license ..... until the day that do not have to make an official competition.
In addition there are very many sports insurance, medical certificates etc. for players who play official events.

By the way, I spoke also of civil liability insurance for organizers of tournaments .....

.... Or privacy laws or the publication of photos of children who won the tournament without authorization, in writing, of their parents.

These are some of the differences between a sport and a group of friends playing in garages

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