Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:19 pm

Of course it is possible to play in bigger groups, but then the tournament would be very longer with the current time management at most of those events.
I wouldn't have a problem with that, because then maybe some organizers would need to take more care of the time schedule, I'm pretty sure that it would be possible at many tournaments to make bigger groups, if the time management in most of those events would be better.
I only can say out of my own experience that it was not easy to play the veteran's competition with 20 players in 4 groups of 5, but if the time management is ok, it is possible. Of course it is hard if you have 24 players not to play 8 groups of 3, because for the organizer it is very comfortable to organize, but for players of course 6 groups of 4 would be more satisfying.
Marcus comment is also an important fact, i also don't like the situation that some players have a look on the knock-out stage and try to "manipulate" the tournament by getting second when they normally have to win the group, but in the end we are coming to the main point. FISTF needs an obligate tournament software, where Marcus idea of a flexible knock-out stage could easily be implemented.
With such a software it would also be easy to make new draws. That's a problem too in the circuit. The tournaments are played in groups of 3, if one player doesn't show up the organizers don't make a new draw, play in groups of 2 and "manipulate" the whole event, before the first round of the tournament started.

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Thossa wrote:Not only the Berlin GP shows every year, it is no problem to play GP´s with groups of 4. So why don´t we regulate to play all tournaments from FISTF Futures up to FISTF Grand Prix´ with groups of four?

I recognize it is nearly impossible to play Major tournaments with groups of four, but a little risk for weaker player should be allowed.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  wrkl on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:28 pm

Thossa wrote:Not only the Berlin GP shows every year, it is no problem to play GP´s with groups of 4. So why don´t we regulate to play all tournaments from FISTF Futures up to FISTF Grand Prix´ with groups of four?

I recognize it is nearly impossible to play Major tournaments with groups of four, but a little risk for weaker player should be allowed.

All you have done now is to replace 2 thrashings with 3 thrashings.

If groups of 4 or 5 are so popular why did the English GP show a reduction of 30% in it's entry this year.

If we must continue with this bizzare age based system of seperating players as opposed to proven ability then I would be happy to play straight knockout. Once you have lost (you do not deserve to win the event) your one match you move to a "b" or "c" event. Everyone still gets the same number of games.

In a group of 5 once you have lost your 1st match all you have to look forward to for the next 3-4 hours is another 3 pointless matches and 3 games to referee Rolling Eyes

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:33 am

There are 2 possible solutions for that.
Major organizers have to organize a Satellite for all those who are out in the groups, which would start after the first knock out round.
The second way would be a proposal of Kostas Kechris (i'm not sure, but i think i remember he proposed that). We could change the whole system of tournaments that the third of the group also play in a barrage with the second of the groups and maybe some winners if needed. That would solve the problem you wrote that in bigger groups the tournament is over after loosing the first game if only the first and second play the knock-out, but if there would be 3 out of 4 who can enter the barrage, bigger groups would be more interesting, in case a tournament is played with groups of 3, you are not out of the tournament if you are 3rd.
The group then only would be a kind of qualification round for a knock-out tournament.

Heinz

wrkl wrote:
Thossa wrote:Not only the Berlin GP shows every year, it is no problem to play GP´s with groups of 4. So why don´t we regulate to play all tournaments from FISTF Futures up to FISTF Grand Prix´ with groups of four?

I recognize it is nearly impossible to play Major tournaments with groups of four, but a little risk for weaker player should be allowed.

All you have done now is to replace 2 thrashings with 3 thrashings.

If groups of 4 or 5 are so popular why did the English GP show a reduction of 30% in it's entry this year.

If we must continue with this bizzare age based system of seperating players as opposed to proven ability then I would be happy to play straight knockout. Once you have lost (you do not deserve to win the event) your one match you move to a "b" or "c" event. Everyone still gets the same number of games.

In a group of 5 once you have lost your 1st match all you have to look forward to for the next 3-4 hours is another 3 pointless matches and 3 games to referee Rolling Eyes

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Thossa on Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:44 am

A Satellite-tournament within a Major-tournament Shocked sound a bit strange. I would like to hear the opinion of a next Sport Director to this proposal Exclamation
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:48 am

I brought 2 possibilities which could be a solution to the post of wrkl.
Of course the next sport director has to decide, but we can discuss about several things here, I thought. Exclamation

Heinz

Thossa wrote:A Satellite-tournament within a Major-tournament Shocked sound a bit strange. I would like to hear the opinion of a next Sport Director to this proposal Exclamation

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Eoin on Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 am

Heinz Eder wrote:Major organizers have to organize a Satellite for all those who are out in the groups, which would start after the first knock out round

We've been doing that for decades in Britain and Ireland, it's called a plate.
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:01 am

that would be the third option to play a plate competition and give points in the WR for it. I think it is not the most important fact, but I think it should be honoured with WR points.
A Satellite would have the disadvantage that players in the top 100 and out in the major competition couldn't play the Satellite.

Heinz

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Thossa on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:16 am

It is probably better to discuss this in a new topic and maybe it would be helpful if not only a Sports Director in spe will say something to this options, but the organisers of the four FISTF Major-tournaments, too Wink
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:52 am

In Italy there are already three years that we organize this kind of tournaments. We call them Tornei di consolazione. In this way it gives players the chance to play more games.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  wrkl on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:05 am

Eoin wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Major organizers have to organize a Satellite for all those who are out in the groups, which would start after the first knock out round

We've been doing that for decades in Britain and Ireland, it's called a plate.

You are correct Eoin, but the plate in the UK has been an informal affair. What Heinz is proposing is more solid and would give greater incentive.

At the last event in the Millennium Stadium we actually organised a consolation event for Teams that seemed to work really well.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:10 am

Personally I would prefer it to change the whole tournament system.
The proposal of Kostas Kechris is interesting that even the third of the group could play the barrage, mixed with Marcus idea of a flexible draw after the group stage, many problems could be solved at once I think.
It would guarentee every player at least 3 games in every individual competition.

Heinz

wrkl wrote:
Eoin wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Major organizers have to organize a Satellite for all those who are out in the groups, which would start after the first knock out round

We've been doing that for decades in Britain and Ireland, it's called a plate.

You are correct Eoin, but the plate in the UK has been an informal affair. What Heinz is proposing is more solid and would give greater incentive.

At the last event in the Millennium Stadium we actually organised a consolation event for Teams that seemed to work really well.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Thossa on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:15 am

There should be immediately formed a commission on this matter...
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:35 am

Some good ideas here. I'm still not sure that any of them in this whole topic is enough by itself. I feel that maybe there should be 2-3 options for the organizers to choose from.

Also the biggest events like WC and Majors should maybe be considered differently, without the aspect of protecting new or weak players.

A consolation cup, or a B tournament (B cup is ok, too...) would still be good on these, too. Like in swimming the B final. There can even be B and C tournament in bigger events to make it easier to organize.

Heinz Eder wrote:I brought 2 possibilities which could be a solution to the post of wrkl.
Of course the next sport director has to decide, but we can discuss about several things here, I thought. Exclamation

These things shouldn't be decided by one amateur board member.

Thossa wrote:There should be immediately formed a commission on this matter...

This is the way forward for the best solution. In many other things, too.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:41 pm

Thossa wrote:There should be immediately formed a commission on this matter...

Yes is very important Very Happy

and after another commission that will decide people that will be involved in this commission, and after ......

mamma mia!!!!! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  drastis on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:13 pm

de francesco wrote:[Yes is very important Very Happy

and after another commission that will decide people that will be involved in this commission, and after ......

After we can create a new international federation...

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:20 pm

i really hope that you, Coppenolle and the germans will make a new association......

cheers cheers cheers cheers

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:22 pm

if you do the problem is solved

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:23 pm

I'm not sure if there will be enough people for so many commissions. Cool

Heinz

drastis wrote:
de francesco wrote:[Yes is very important Very Happy

and after another commission that will decide people that will be involved in this commission, and after ......

After we can create a new international federation...

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:25 pm

Stefano, i hope it was a joke Sad

de francesco wrote:if you do the problem is solved

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:33 pm

It is a joke ............ Laughing ............. for now.

After Rain we will see........

We are very tired of these persons.
We are very tired to lose opportunity.
We are very tired of words.

I will call you and I'll explain more about our ideas.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Admin on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:20 pm

Stefano, sometimes you should just ask yourself "Maybe I am the problem?"

I know that not 100% of Italian players support you.

Also I'm sure that the big majority of italian players is not really interested in what's going on outside Italy.

When I thought about creating another federation, I was the "bad boy". Now that you have the same idea, you're a "genius".

Your sense of humor is pathetic.
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  wrkl on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:35 pm

I think we may be off topic now Rolling Eyes

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:03 pm

de francesco wrote:i really hope that you, Coppenolle and the germans will make a new association......

Could you please explain what you mean by "germans" ? In total ? At all ? Some specific ?
And what kind of association should we form ? One of Luxemburg ? Or Albania ? In beer drinking ?
pirat pirat pirat
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  drastis on Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:30 pm

de francesco wrote:i really hope that you, Coppenolle and the germans will make a new association......

I really don't hope that... I only hope that you will calm down and be a bit more responsible, because people like you have a lot to offer to the community.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Thossa on Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:05 pm

Stupid is as stupid does... (Forrest Gump)
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