Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Janus_Gersie on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:10 am

drastis wrote:I only hope that you will calm down and be a bit more responsible, because people like you have a lot to offer to the community.

Exactly my opinion ... we need the best people for the board. There is no "North" or "South", no "small association" or "huge association" ... there is only one tablesoccer world.
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:01 am

Janus_Gersie wrote:
drastis wrote:I only hope that you will calm down and be a bit more responsible, because people like you have a lot to offer to the community.

Exactly my opinion ... we need the best people for the board. There is no "North" or "South", no "small association" or "huge association" ... there is only one tablesoccer world.

Exactly!

The bad news is that in Italy Stefano's idea of a breakaway association (because Coppenolle also said something about this possibility) has been developed to a Clubs' Association. This wouldn't be in the way of FISTF but it would be the way to try to realise the dream of tv and professionalism.

Almost everyone in the thread has been exited there and a lot of talk about the might of Italy has also come about. It's even ridiculous, the hype of themselves!

On the other hand no one seems interested in answering questions or criticism about the work of the Board (they should still do it, but are concentrating on this new "toy") lack of communication and such.

It doesn't give me so good a picture about the professionalism.

And to me Italy is also not carrying it's weight as the only "superpower" in TF. If they are the best with the best ideas, why don't they do it the right way and have a candidate even for President? They also have a moral responsability to work with us mortals. And it wouldn't have to be Stefano, but how can there be no one if there are so many players?

The good news is that both Stefano and Piero are still working hard for TF.

OT, but so is a lot more in here...

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Janus_Gersie on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:21 am

von K. wrote:Exactly!

The bad news is that in Italy Stefano's idea of a breakaway association (because Coppenolle also said something about this possibility) has been developed to a Clubs' Association. This wouldn't be in the way of FISTF but it would be the way to try to realise the dream of tv and professionalism.

Almost everyone in the thread has been exited there and a lot of talk about the might of Italy has also come about. It's even ridiculous, the hype of themselves!

On the other hand no one seems interested in answering questions or criticism about the work of the Board (they should still do it, but are concentrating on this new "toy") lack of communication and such.

It doesn't give me so good a picture about the professionalism.

And to me Italy is also not carrying it's weight as the only "superpower" in TF. If they are the best with the best ideas, why don't they do it the right way and have a candidate even for President? They also have a moral responsability to work with us mortals. And it wouldn't have to be Stefano, but how can there be no one if there are so many players?

The good news is that both Stefano and Piero are still working hard for TF.

OT, but so is a lot more in here...

A MUST is - if you have to convince people like an elected board - to pick up people where they currently are placed. No matter if your ideas are good or not - if you don't speak the language of those you are trying to reach you will never be successful !

I won't argue with Stefano about his tremendous work in Italy over the last years - for sure together with others - but his limited ability regarding other associations makes him a show-stopper as a Sports Director. (By the way: we also worked hard in Germany for our sport.)

What I am mostly worrying right now: who will be Sports Director ? We need a strong one who is accepted. Look at the nominations ! Who can replace Stefano ? I am really worried ....

The discussions about a new federation are just bullshit: the italians need the rest of the world and we need the italians. It is so easy. It would become boring after a few years just to play against each other ... and by the way: that solution does not sound professional to me.
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:42 am

The debate could become interesting.

The topics to be addressed are mainly two.

The first thing you should do a board to function. The FISTF is in my idea a reality very different, you go from Italy to India. In my program of four years starting from the elections of September I had divided the nations into three groups.
The first group is represented by countries more organized.
The second group is represented by those countries where there is already a reality of organized clubs and players.
The third group is represented by those countries mono club almost.

The work of the board would have to be very different depending on the group which went to work.

Piero would have to deal with media and sponsors. I was going for the development of various nations. Stefano Tagliaferri would cure the organization and secretary. I wanted to create a very streamlined committees that would help me in my work. (It may seem strange, but today I involved Janus in this commission).

Unfortunately, our organization is too focused on people. Vincent Coppenolle or does the President or spends his days throwing shit on his opponents. A President must have ideas and visions. Coppenolle has neither. Italy is not interested in working with him. My opinion is that we should create a working group with the best representatives of our sport. We should create a common goal and work together to achieve it.

Because we are creating is the idea of Clubs Association? We do not want to lose another four years. We want to show that what is impossible for anyone but is a goal within our reach. Italy and other countries will never leave the FISTF.

Unless there are conditions to do a good job with a clubs association we will continue to work in our countries.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:58 am

I want to add another thing.

The new board has to rectify the game material and definitively establish relationships with producers.

1) producers (ProfiBase, AstroBase, EW, etc..) Cannot be part of the board and in its commissions.
2) The board must ensure that players do not use illegal material.
3) No national sellers of game materials may be on the board and in its commissions.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:13 pm

Caro Stefano,

With these thoughts and ideas, I honestly can't understand why there is no candidate from Italy for the Board and even for the President. It's just stupid, because now you wrote many important things.

The problem has been that nothing of these ideas have been known to the nations and players of many countries. With better communication (I see that english is no problem for you) I feel great things could be done.

With good communication, this kind of ideas and always asking member nations before decisions, some of you would still abe on the Board next year. And if Vincent is the problem, for you, then you have to have a respected candidate for President who will be able to convince nations that he is better than Vincent.

I think it's unbelievable that you are afraid to lose four years, but you give up without a fight. Talking about another association (albeit for clubs) is for me the easy way out. Not something I expect from the superpower of table football.

You talk of FISTF being too focused on people. I agree. But you are also focusing too much on people, because you can't stand Vincent.

But Vincent has big capacity and will to keep in touch and help many people. You get an answer from him even within one hour, or one day at the most. Even for unofficial questions. For the provisional Board it took two weeks to get an answer regarding official information about a GP/IO that was to start in three weeks. And sometimes the answer doesn't come at all.

Vincent can be undiplomatic at times, but he isn't the only one. I hope he and the others are learning their lession.

I asked in the Italian forum for the provosional Boards other members responsability in the issue of communication. It clearly is disgraceful as also Piero has said. But why doesn't the Board take action if a member of the Board is making the whole Board look like bunch of arrogant amateurs making empty promises.

The idea of committees for some areas is the same I have. I thought you were against them?

I'm really sad that you and Piero (I don't know Tagliaferri) are not continuing to work with the FISTF because of personal things. Most of the criticism has been justified, but you should learn from it. Lack of communication and decisions before discussion are the biggest reason for criticism, because it has also helped create decisions many don't like, but haven't even had the chance to say it and have a proper argumentation over them.

But as you said, we should create a common goal and work for it.

I hope that for example you and Piero help in that no matter who is in the Board. I think your ideas are important, just like Piero's.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:50 pm

If Coppenolle will be chaiman of the board it is impossible for me cooperate.

My support is for Silvio Catania.

Only for joke i tell my idea:

Silvio Catania - President
Stefano Tagliaferri - Secretary and comunication
Piero Capponi - Marketing and media
Alan Collins - Finance
Stefano De Francesco - Sport

For Sport : Organization, calendar and Tournaments Heinz Eder; Ranking Freddy Paerdens; Development in Europe: Josè Carlos Guerrero (Spain, Portugal and Gibraltar), Janus Gersie (Germany, France, Switzerland, Nederland, Austria), Mike Burns & John Lauder (Great Britain & Ireland), Vesa Kouvonkorpi (Scandinavian area), .................... (East Europe).
Youth development : Juan Carlos Granados, Pierceleste Zambello, Oliver Pere, Eric Verhagen.
(Diversamente abili) Disability: Gianni Guercia

I think that will be a good team.


Last edited by de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Thossa on Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:35 pm

de francesco wrote:
Only for joke i tell my idea:

Silvio Catania - President
Stefano Tagliaferri - Secretary and comunication
Piero Capponi - Marketing and media
Alan Collins - Finance
Stefano De Francesco - Sport


Certainly a good joke. Very Happy
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Admin on Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:37 pm

"Producers should not be in the Board" but "Capponi should be in the Board". Funny.

This is science-fiction, I believe...
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  drastis on Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:00 pm

It is very important that Stefano is back to the forum, taking part in discussions about the game!! Not only because he, as a person, is highly respected but also because Italy MUST be in the front line of discussions.

I would not like to comment personal attacks against Vincent (anway everyone knows I have been one of the harshest decriers of Vincent during the last years). I would only like to note that criticism must be based on facts and not on personal likes or dislikes. Having this in mind, we should all admit that Vincent deserves a place in FISTF BoD, despite the mistakes and omissions of the past.

If the same goes for Stefano and Piero, I would propose/ask from them to reconsider their decisions and send their late nominations to the provisionary BoD and let the associations decide in September who's best for the job. Fair, isn't it?

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:14 pm

Dear Drastis thank you for your kind words.

As I have said is impossible for me to work with people like Vincent and Thossa.

Their last two comments I should make it clear that people are. I try to make a proposal and ..... these was their comments.......

Thossa: Certainly a good joke.

Vincent: Producers should not be in the Board" but "Capponi should be in the Board. Funny.

It 'also clear why I proposed Janus. I prefer an intelligent enemy (for the game only of course) than a stupid friend.

After if i have an enemy stupid ............. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy it is another thing.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:38 pm

drastis wrote:Having this in mind, we should all admit that Vincent deserves a place in FISTF BoD, despite the mistakes and omissions of the past.

If the same goes for Stefano and Piero, I would propose/ask from them to reconsider their decisions and send their late nominations to the provisionary BoD and let the associations decide in September who's best for the job. Fair, isn't it?

Correct!

Thank you, Stefano, for your very kind inclusion to your idea.

Am I also on the enemy list? (joke) I want to think of myself as impartial and objective, though I know I'm not perfect in that (or anything else, in fact).

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:41 pm

error


Last edited by de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Stefano Buzzi on Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:13 pm

I think that all of you are just a little OT.

We need a General Assembly of Clubs to establish our objectives and to change the election law.

We need to allow a whole team to be elected to realize our wishes and not other.

I support my old idea of a Club Association (it was in my 1997 program till I retired my candidature for Italian Board), because we need somebody who delegate the control of the steps of our International Board without to await 4 years to repair wrong ways!

War is not a good way, but we need to respect people to show us like something positive. If I wasn't in Table Football affairs, taking a look to this forum I would think to be in a condominium assembly, wher everyone fights for everithing and offending everybody!!

We need a "tabula rasa" to restart building something good.

And now here I stop my OT!!! Very Happy
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Admin on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:12 pm

Elections every 4 years is a bad thing. Every 2 years would be much better, I think.
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:20 pm

Absolutely off topic, but

Could you Stefano edit my whole name to the post where you mentioned me as part of the development plan?

An idiot in Finland is making trouble about almost anything and wants a clarfication that it's me.

I know, he's an idiot.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:30 pm

no problems ............ done Very Happy

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:31 pm

Grazie Mille!

Non è vero... Laughing

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  de francesco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:42 pm

Vesa unfortunately remains just an idea written in a forum.

I'm sorry because I believe that all together we would make it become real.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  von K. on Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:03 am

de francesco wrote:Vesa unfortunately remains just an idea written in a forum.

Of course, but it's still a nice proof that my sometimes even very critical thoughts, arguments and discussions have been noticed in a good way.

I Finland my thoughts, work and criticism are not appreciated by many. Maybe because practically only Zinga is having a real discussion there, with real arguments and capable of genuine conversation.

The others seem to think a proper way to answer criticism is to be quiet or change the subject. And many are only having cheap shots because they can't have a real conversation with opinions that are well explained.

That's why I appreciate this so much. It means that there is nothing wrong with my way of doing things.

de francesco wrote:I'm sorry because I believe that all together we would make it become real.

In general (not talking about specific persons here) I think you are right. But I think everything is still possible.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:00 am

I hope Stefano Tagliaferri doesn't take it personal, because I like him personally, but his good attributes doesn't match with the needed attributes for a communication director and general secretary in my opinion.
The reason is his english, I saw it in Frankfurt, where many times a translation to italian was needed. I know that others in the board aren't speaking english well too, but especially if you are responsible for communication with associations, clubs and players good english should be very important, it is not the job only to send prepared texts, this person should be able to do communication on his own.
In special cases, of course the department has to be consulted, but general requests should be answered directly by this person according on the handbook.

Heinz

de francesco wrote:If Coppenolle will be chaiman of the board it is impossible for me cooperate.

My support is for Silvio Catania.

Only for joke i tell my idea:

Silvio Catania - President
Stefano Tagliaferri - Secretary and comunication
Piero Capponi - Marketing and media
Alan Collins - Finance
Stefano De Francesco - Sport

For Sport : Organization, calendar and Tournaments Heinz Eder; Ranking Freddy Paerdens; Development in Europe: Josè Carlos Guerrero (Spain, Portugal and Gibraltar), Janus Gersie (Germany, France, Switzerland, Nederland, Austria), Mike Burns & John Lauder (Great Britain & Ireland), Vesa Kouvonkorpi (Scandinavian area), .................... (East Europe).
Youth development : Juan Carlos Granados, Pierceleste Zambello, Oliver Pere, Eric Verhagen.
(Diversamente abili) Disability: Gianni Guercia

I think that will be a good team.

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  drastis on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:01 am

Heinz Eder wrote:The reason is his english, I saw it in Frankfurt, where many times a translation to italian was needed.

Heinz, what did you do in Frankfurt when a translation to Greek was needed?? Laughing Laughing

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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Thossa on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:08 am

Well, I must say, everytime when Leonidas Koutromanos spoke to the audience he mumbled only. I am sure all of us have only understand less than the half...
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Re: Maximum score (5-0) in the group stage

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:36 am

I can't remember that I said, he is the right choice for that post!? Cool

Heinz

Thossa wrote:Well, I must say, everytime when Leonidas Koutromanos spoke to the audience he mumbled only. I am sure all of us have only understand less than the half...

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