Problem with nominations for the future elections

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Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  von K. on Sat May 15, 2010 12:57 pm

In the circular 17 it became evident, that FISTF doesn't want everyone in the global table football community to have a chance to became a board member. This is a huge problem both in terms of democracy and in terms of the best quality directors to be nominated.

Quote from the circular: "All forms must be sent by the President of the particular federation, as the representative will be representing the country first and foremost."

1. This prevents for example the majority of the greek players to be nominated, because I'm quite sure that the federation President doesn't allow his enemies to be nominated. This is an even bigger problem as the President is in the current BoD.

Greece is just an example. I know that in Finland we could (but luckily we don't) also have a President that could prevent many nominations for personal or other reasons.

In a democracy anyone should be able to be nominated regarding that the person has enough supporters. In these elections I think that if anyone has maybe 20 supporters or more it should be enough for the person to get nominated even without the approval of the President. In a parliamentary election this is the procedure in Finland when you are not part of a political party.

2. I'm probably stupid, but I've always thought that the BoD of the global federation is representing first and foremost the global game. Or do you think that Sepp Blatter is representing Switzerland in FIFA?

If we have a BoD consisting for example of 2 italians,1 french, 1 maltese, 1 spaniard and 1 greek, and they are "first and foremost" representing their countries, then it sounds frightening for the smaller countries in other continents and also the northern part of Europe.

And better yet! How about a BoD with members only from two countries representing "first and foremost" their own country? I'm not sure if this is possible, but if it is, then...

According to the circular 17, the boards (FISTF's) view of democratic elections and the idea of the BoD is badly distorted. In my opinion at least.


Last edited by von K. on Sun May 16, 2010 12:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Admin on Sat May 15, 2010 1:15 pm

And the fact candidatures have to be sent 3 months in advance is a total joke. When the same people organized they "take over" and when Stefano told me in december (about 5 weeks before the meeting in Frankfurt) that there was no need to have elections because he was supporting me as president, they didn't need 3 months.

Sorry but these people are acting like bastards and when you see the circular letter with the report of the meeting in Amsterdam, it's just a very big bunch of blah blah and no acts!

Sorry but I'm more than fed up of the current FISTF Board!

(and unfortunately Capponi and De Francesco retired from this forum so they are not even able to communicate anything about it).
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  von K. on Sat May 15, 2010 7:06 pm

Did the BoD inform anyone about the May deadline for nominations before this circular?

If it didn't, it's quite absurd to think many people could make such a decision about their candidature with such short notice (less than 3 weeks to think about it). Being a board member of FISTF takes a lot of time, so anyone who is interested has to speak about it with his family and think carefully.

The main questions still remain, what really is the BoD's view of FISTF's role and purpose? And what are the real motivations for questionable decisions like this with the nominations through presidents?

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Admin on Sat May 15, 2010 7:08 pm

von K. wrote:Did the BoD inform anyone about the May deadline for nominations before this circular?
No!
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  drastis on Tue May 18, 2010 1:06 pm

Well, when until last year we greek players were crying out for help, most of the people in other countries felt annoyed. It was "our" business to try and solve our "problems" they said.

What happened to us then is happening to all now, isn't it funny how things turn out? "Strange" decisions are made by people who want to become absolute rulers and think they are the only ones who can "first and foremost" represent their countries.

The method is EXACTLY the same, ruling out the other nominees so that there is no alternative choice for voters, only the "provisionary" BoD members!!! The target is EXACTLY the same, taking full control of the Federation. Probably, the owners of the ideas must be EXACTLY the same people...

For those who are wondering what is going to happen next, let me inform you that the Greek National Championships 2010 took place last week, hitting a low-participation record since 2003 of LESS THAN 40 PLAYERS in the Open Category.

Enjoy!!

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Thossa on Tue May 18, 2010 1:34 pm

I hope the President of PATFAP had not used too much time for FISTF work, than to ask greek players for their participation to the National Championsships Razz
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  drastis on Wed May 19, 2010 1:44 pm

To my knowledge, there must be only one person who would benefit from this new pre-requisite (that the national association has to approve nominations for FISTF BoD). It is a person who apparently doesn't care a lot about the community and doesn't want his fellow-countrymen to be able to express themselves without asking him first. Also, I know this same person is not sure that he will still have his position after June, so he would also benefit from the other new pre-requisite that nominations must be sent THREE MONTHS before the election.

If I can offer any suggestion to people who feel offended by the practices followed by the "provisionary" BoD, I only have to say this: GET LEGAL ADVICE. Read FISTF statuses and try to object such arbitrary decisions legally, BEFORE the elections takes place. After the election has happened it will be too late for you to redeem anything, because either you will be entangled into a never-ending dispute or you will have to create a new federation.

In any case, players must protect their dignity and pride. Good luck to all.

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Admin on Wed May 19, 2010 1:50 pm

As long as it's not written in the statutes, the way way the future elections are handled nowadays is totally illegal...
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Thossa on Wed May 19, 2010 1:58 pm

George, just try to candidate as BoD-member and we will see what happens. If you would be elected, feel free not to accept it, its worth trying out. Isn´t it?
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed May 19, 2010 2:39 pm

Dear all,

this topic is really interesting ... even if the nomination procedure is legal or not WE all have the opportunity to be elected in September. What does it mean ? If Silvio Catania will be re-elected he maybe has to face with a total different team.

So everybody is asked to go for nomination ! In order to get the best possible team we should not think in front lines but in the best option. Who is the best option for which job in the Board ?

I would like to read your suggestions ....

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Thossa on Wed May 19, 2010 6:27 pm

Each association can only nominate one person, has to allocate the position and only a president can do it.... holy cow, what a mess.

At the moment the presidents of the associations of Greece and France has jobs in the FISTF BoD. That means nobody else from those two countries will be able to candidate.

In the past it wasn´t wrong when two from one country were elected. Par example Baxter & Dand (SCO), Peré & Coppenolle (BEL), Vulpes & Büsing (GER) or right now Capponi, De Francesco (ITA).

BTW. I don´t have a problem with the timing. If from June on the names of candidates are published, it is a good possible to discuss with them about there ideas (as long as they don´t fear a forum like the provisional BoD).
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Admin on Thu May 20, 2010 5:50 am

Sorry but more than one candidate per country should NOT be a problem. Normally one ELECTED Board member per country should be fine though.
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  EFM on Thu May 20, 2010 2:41 pm

One single comment: unbelievable.
What next ?
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri May 21, 2010 11:15 am

[quote="Thossa"]Each association can only nominate one person ...[quote]

Where do you take it from ? Please read carefully the circular again. For me it is clear that each association can nominate as much candidates as it wants .....


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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Thossa on Fri May 21, 2010 11:44 am

I did...

There is written:

Any national association who intends to nominate a person from its country to occupy a
position in the FISTF Board between September 2010 and September 2014 shall fill in the
attached form.


A person is singular.

Silvio Catania or his secretary didn´t wrote "Any national association who intends to nominate persons from its country to occupy positions in the FISTF Board between September 2010 and September 2014 shall fill in the attached forms.
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri May 21, 2010 12:23 pm

Okay, but there is also written: "All forms must be sent by the President of the particular federation". That is plural !

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Thossa on Fri May 21, 2010 12:47 pm

yeah yeah, however... probably the FISTF President expect more than one form until May 31st santa

Of course he didn´t wrote "only one"...!!! Wink

Nevertheless it is a no go, that only presidents of "any antional associations" can send in nominations. It is purely arbitary as some people already posted somewhere here in this forum - and again - it´s a pity that nobody of the current BoD shows balls to answer open questions.
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri May 21, 2010 1:17 pm

It is open to discuss if only the presidents are allowed to do the nominations.
The reason for Silvio's behaviour is clear: he always stated that he's going to strengthen the national associations. Following this idea it is evident why he only wants nominations from the presidents ...

For me another question is still open: nominations only from member associations or as well from partner nations ?

And what about nations with an unclear status ????
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Thossa on Fri May 21, 2010 9:39 pm

Benedikt XVI is from Germany. Maybe we could found another worst association right in the middle of the heart of Italy: the Subbuteo Association Of Vatican City..., but only for catholics clown Amen!
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  von K. on Thu May 27, 2010 9:56 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:It is open to discuss if only the presidents are allowed to do the nominations.
The reason for Silvio's behaviour is clear: he always stated that he's going to strengthen the national associations. Following this idea it is evident why he only wants nominations from the presidents ...

Yes, but what if there is a federation with a Board that the majority in the country doesn't approve and apparently even illegal? How can anyone say that in such country the President should be the one deciding? It's simply unbearable and completely ridiculous.

I strongly urge for example Kechris, Drastis and all the other possible greeks to send an application for candidature to both their federation and the FISTF. We'll see what happens. If you don't, then anyone can say that we didn't receive an application.

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  drastis on Thu May 27, 2010 10:43 pm

von K. wrote:Yes, but what if there is a federation with a Board that the majority in the country doesn't approve and apparently even illegal? How can anyone say that in such country the President should be the one deciding? It's simply unbearable and completely ridiculous.

I strongly urge for example Kechris, Drastis and all the other possible greeks to send an application for candidature to both their federation and the FISTF. We'll see what happens. If you don't, then anyone can say that we didn't receive an application.
A really good point by Von K. I would only delete the "what ifs" and I would say that THERE IS AN ASSOCIATION where the country's courts have decided in first level that the current BoD and "President" have their places as the outcome of an illegal election. And I would go further, saying that not only the particular "representative" should not be allowed to be a candidate proposed by the Associaton (actually proposed by himself), but he should also not be allowed to vote in FISTF congress!

The fact that this person is currently a member of FISTF "provisional" BoD is either a huge mistake or a sign for the real intentions of this BoD. In both cases, it shows how "professional" their decisions are.

Regarding your proposal, to nominate for a place in FISTF BoD, I would not do it just to provoke and create a mess, I would (or will) do it after seriously considering if and how I can contribute to a joined effort for the good of the game.

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri May 28, 2010 1:18 am

von K. wrote:Yes, but what if there is a federation with a Board that the majority in the country doesn't approve and apparently even illegal? How can anyone say that in such country the President should be the one deciding? It's simply unbearable and completely ridiculous.

Assumed we are talking of a "normal" federation this case should never happen. Normally the board will be elected during the AGM by a qualified majority. In Germany we are acting like this. As we have an official status (we are approved by a special german court for these matters) we have to send our minutes to this court and they check if everything is valid regarding our status and the appropriate laws. But I think this is quite usual in Europe ...

von K. wrote:I strongly urge for example Kechris, Drastis and all the other possible greeks to send an application for candidature to both their federation and the FISTF. We'll see what happens. If you don't, then anyone can say that we didn't receive an application.

Who is "their federation" ?
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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  von K. on Fri May 28, 2010 12:01 pm

drastis wrote:Regarding your proposal, to nominate for a place in FISTF BoD, I would not do it just to provoke and create a mess, I would (or will) do it after seriously considering if and how I can contribute to a joined effort for the good of the game.

Yes, of course. But I feel that both you and Kechris (don't know other possible countrymen) would have something to give. And also you would give another option for people to vote for. If you don't have the time or for another reason can't contribute as you'd like to, then maybe you shouldn't candidate.

I say maybe, because in situations like these a "mess" is sometimes needed to clear the air and start again from a clean board. It's the same in other areas of life.

Janus_Gersie wrote:
von K. wrote:I strongly urge for example Kechris, Drastis and all the other possible greeks to send an application for candidature to both their federation and the FISTF. We'll see what happens. If you don't, then anyone can say that we didn't receive an application.

Who is "their federation" ?

Good question! But I meant the one with the illegal things. Because if the application is not accepted there has to be a reason. And it would be nice to hear the reasoning and FISTF Board's (who ever is in it, also the previous Board made a huge mistake in this) reaction to it.

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Re: Problem with nominations for the future elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Sat May 29, 2010 12:36 pm

von K. wrote:Good question! But I meant the one with the illegal things. Because if the application is not accepted there has to be a reason. And it would be nice to hear the reasoning and FISTF Board's (who ever is in it, also the previous Board made a huge mistake in this) reaction to it.

The situation in Greece is a bit tricky. Legally spoken FISTF does not have an officially affiliated association in Greece right now (due to several circumstances to write down here would blast this thread!). There are two associations in Greece and none of them is recognised. It is a strange situation because if Drastis would apply for being candidate whose president will be allowed to send the nomination to FISTF ????

Factually spoken FISTF could not accept candidates from Hellas. What are we going to do with the current board member from Hellas if FISTF would follow my argumentation line ?

It could be another proof the the whole election procedure from Frankfurt was a complete desaster. The new board should not have accepted a candidate from Hellas.

Tricky situation ...
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