Europa League: for or against?

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Europa League: for or against?

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Europa League: for or against?

Post  Admin on Mon May 03, 2010 11:26 am

Just a new topic to ask the players' opinion about the Europa League.

As you probably know, my opinion about the Europa League is that it's just a big joke. It will just help Italy to get more pride even if italians say it's "good for the game".

Sorry but we are in a world were among the best teams in the world, there are many italian teams but also Mattersburg (Austria), ASH, Charleroi, Stembert, JSC & TS Rochefort (Belgium), Falcons, Roligans (Greece), Delft (Netherlands), Murcia, Tiburones, Turia (Spain) and Cardiff (Wales).

I don't understand the point to have an Europa Cup where the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th teams from Italy will play against very weak teams. To make an idea, I don't see how more nations will be able to send teams. Let's take it case by case:
- Spain: maybe one team will play the EL but last year, Barcelona and Turia were amont the teams that had the chance to play the EC in Tournai and failed to come...
- Belgium: OK, maybe the 5th & 6th teams of the Belgian team will come but it's not sure and they have absolutely no chance to win the event;
- France: in the last few years, France wasn't able to send more than 2 teams to the EC.
- Greece: Greece has maybe a potential (like Belgium), to send one or 2 teams.
- England: they alreadys truggle to send teams abroad so...
- Malta: same as England. Only Hamrun plyed the last EC and they did not even have a team at the Grand Prix of Malta last week!
- Wales: Cardiff is the only active club.
- Scotland: their never play abroad so I don't see how they could have teams in both the EC and the EL.
- Netherlands: Delft and Rijnmond could play the EC but I don't see any 3rd team to play the EL.
- Germany: maybe one team could play the EL but it will be difficult.
- Austria: there are only 3 clubs travelling abroad so i don't see how they wil find more teams to play the EL.
- Portugal, Norway, Denmark: ?

Well, the idea of the Europa League is basically good but in general I think it will never work because most national associations are not strong enough and don't have strong leagues enough.

Just my opinion though...


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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Thossa on Mon May 03, 2010 2:37 pm

The provisional BoD wants to improve the game to a sport. Therefore it is normal to try something like that. So far, so good. Time will show how successful this idea will be. Basketball
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  kechris on Mon May 03, 2010 4:06 pm

In fistf forum few days before closed i sent my idea-proposal for two europa cups.
Champions league for the champions of every country and for the best five clubs (max1 per country) in world ranking and Europa league for two teams per country and the following 10 clubs (max 2 per country) in world ranking.
The two tournaments would take place the same weekend in the same sport hall.
Every country would have represent by -at least 3 teams and no more than 6 teams.

I was informed that will change the number of teams in Europa cups.
But i haven't official information.
My team played in Greek league for teams and the greek handbook allow to qualify only the first two teams in league to take part in Europa cup.
If new FISTF BoD wants to change the system, must inform the federations and the clubs in time.
Because there are member of BoD who inform (private) their club for a special ladder and they know how many teams will qualify in next Europa cups. For example i hear that 4 greek teams will play and 9 italians.
My team finished in 5th position of Greek league but we don't know that the important position was the 4th. We knew only for 2 positions so we didn't gave our all of efforts in the last games because we had loose our possibillities for the first 2 positions.

So we wait for official information. We believe that 2 europa cups are good for the game. No 2 italian cups with few clubs from the rest european countries...
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Tue May 04, 2010 10:16 am

What Vincent and Thoss say is correct but basically we believe many clubs think the opposite:

I want before giving any information:

- In the last 10 years only Mattesburg (3 times) has won the Champions League, in addition to the Italian team (Perugia 2, Napoli 2, 2 Pisa, Reggio 1).
- Mattesburg not won since 2004.
- Only Murcia has reached the finals (in 2008) part Mattesburg and Italians.
- The statistics of the late 10's: 14 Italians, five Mattesburg, a Murcia.
- Naples, the last winner, has arrived in the Italian League in August this year and has played out to not play down to the series B.
- Delft (where the Netherlands will play all veterans meno Bom) last year came seventh in the group ..
- Last year there were 15 Italians and Belgians.

I mean that it is clear who is going to the champions to win it.

Everyone else will play, have fun and be measured by higher equipment (which we have named above) or less.

What I mean by this is that many teams may prefer a competition where the level is slightly lower, but more balanced.

The Spanish example which is perfect Vincet said: last year we were just Murcia and Madrid. Turia sharks and why they were not probably had no chance to have fun.

A Turia-Benita Benita R. V. Gomez-Silva or a Sharks Coll-Leon-Noronha-Field would have many more opportunities to have fun in a "Uefa" in a Champions League.

My colleagues in Madrid have told me they prefer to classify the European competition for the second probably why there are more teams in our level (that is very low).

I think many teams from many countries in the champions will not simply because they're not.

If we get a 4-Belgian champions, four Italians, two Spanish, two Greek, one French, one English, one German, one Austrian, one Dutchman etc ... would probably be winning the Italians (and the Belgians) but for others the competition would be much more fun. We are working for Portugal and Malta regain some competitive teams.

We will probably have the problems of many teams, weaker, qualified for the Champions who will want to participate in the second competition.

Kostas, the decision on this competition is official and has been officially communicated to the federations and clubs for some time already.

We are looking for a game based on the most "simple" as possible so that everyone can access. (Paris, Rome)

Besos

Piero

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue May 04, 2010 4:51 pm

Piero,
I think it is a mistake to decide things, but not asking the federations about their opinion.
In Frankfurt we agreed on it to get a proposal from Stefano about that, we didn't decide to realize that, i think that should be considered by the board.
You are talking out of the spanish and italian view. Did you ever think about it that you take the chance away from teams for years to play against the strongest teams?
Stefano decided to cancel the qualification over the WR he wants to make a ranking of the results each country had in the last 5 editions.
Please could you explain me, how a country with 2 starters should get a chance to get a third starter, if there are 5 countries with 4 starters with much bigger chance to safe their number of places. Could you explain me how a country with 1 starter should have any chance to get a second starter? A bad result in 1 edition of the Champions League will cost the country 3 years, if the results will still be the same that only italians will play for the title.
Most of the teams want to play against the strongest teams in the World, otherwise there wouldn't be more than 30 teams be playing in Mons or another Major. They want to play to get points and experience, in future they don't need to travel anymore, because they don't need the points for the Champions League (because most teams won't be allowed to play anymore), so I'm really waiting for the happenings in the next season.
Even if teams know that they don't have a chance to win the EC, there are surprises possible and the most positive aspect of the EC is that there are games for all places, an important difference to a Major, maybe for the really good teams there is no satisfaction to play games after a lost quarterfinal, I can understand that, but the weaker teams play anyway against each other after the groups, and they are at the same level too, so why splitting a competition?
The current format of EC gives every team about 15 matches on a week-end against all kinds of other teams, on the same level, on higher level and on lower level.
There could be other regulations for the qualification over the WR to limit the number of teams too. The plan to make something simular to the UEFA ranking is a good idea, but we have to include the ranking too.
Maybe instead of 2 teams of the top 8 the best team of each country could be a fixstarter over the WR, if it is in the top 16, then 2 more teams from the national association should be nomintad. No country would have more than 3 starters for the EC. Additionally a team masters with the top 10 team, without any limit of teams per country could be played.

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  kechris on Tue May 04, 2010 5:04 pm

Sorry but i didn't understand what you mean Pierro?

But if you mean that is better and have more fun, two tournaments with 9 italian teams you are out of logic.

What is your opinion for full proffesional conditions in Italy? Do you think that is good for table soccer future the transfers of foreign players?

You said that you are working for Malta and Portugal teams. Do you know how many Maltese players and Portugals players are member of Italian clubs? A italian team of C category had 2 foreign players!!!

Ex BoD with wrong decisions create a monster. A full profesional sport-hobby in Italy. You follow the same WRONG road.

Want you table soccer as a sport or as a professional sport?
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Admin on Tue May 04, 2010 5:18 pm

If there were many belgian teams in the EC in Tournai, it's because 2 teams (Temploux & Verviers) were asked int he last minute to replace team who cancelled their participation (Turia & Rijnmond).

If Turia and Rijnmond had cancelled their participation EARLIER, we would have played the EC on 24 tables and with 24 teams and without Napoli and Brussels!!!

This juste needed to be explained.

Sorry but I really believe it's better to play an EC with 24 or 32 teams instead of 23, 27 or 33 teams...
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Tue May 04, 2010 5:38 pm

For Heinz;

I do not believe that a board must be asking "opinions" every five minutes to countries. So the countries voting. Otherwise it's better to make a board of presidents and a board.

What you say, in practice, does not change things. You know how many teams play classification by ranking across Europe? 2 Milan and Bologna.

They are the only two teams that are struggling to Italy and can do so by ranking.

The other teams from other countries up to now were just because. I remember that Madrid Total Soccer playing his first game in the team ..... champion. Which I find absurd and ridiculous. This happened because there was no playoff teams.

They usually do not think anyone can travel only by a ranking point ... that is not helpful in any case to qualify. I think we have to create events for players and escorts. I do not think Azzure Fiamme gone to Milton for the point ranking.

For Kostas:

I think the only difference between sport and professional sport is the way to live it. To all who play a sport you like to live it. There is no sport for the sport.

There are no "professional" football table, but this does not mean you would not like to many to be paid to play.

Italy has a professional attitude. There are people who work daily to get money and then spend it on bringing aliens or to buy more and more beautiful shirts. I think it is a respectable attitude. Each is free to do whatever he wants with his money.

In Spain we are working to "recover" players who play outside. We can get just a few reasons: A competitive league, a well-organized tournaments, a fun and relaxed, a joint effort to grow.

I have a scheduled meeting in Portugal this month, I will see them to propose the creation of an Iberian League, an exchange in tournaments, joint promotional activities and things like that help the mutual growth.

I've often thought that limiting the number of foreigners to the best "can compel" a lot to play at home. The truth is, but I think that people who do not feel like work ... it is hard to force them to work


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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Tue May 04, 2010 5:55 pm

Vincent, you know the story better than me. Too often we had to retrieve equipment reservations. Why?

Probably why the champions play for many is more a problem than an opportunity. It's just one more tournament but more difficult.

You qualify for the champions, less than for Belgians and Italians, it was very easy

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue May 04, 2010 6:12 pm

Piero, we have a new board, because some countries complained about bad communication and no influence on decisions of the board, now the new board is doing the same!?
I don't agree on it that in such matters the members shouldn't be included now, because such decisions are important for clubs and players. Especially when the new board said in front of 7 associations represented there to send a proposal about that, and in the end it was an information about a change already decided. A decision in Frankfurt was also to build a commission which should have the last decision on such changes, maybe you don't remember any more.
You want to regulate things the association has to regulate, if teams from an association refuse to play, the association sends substitutes, to change the whole system because a very weak team was nominated by an association is a new very interesting aspect.
What do you think about to solve that problem in the association? I agree with you that very weak teams shouldn't play the EC, but do you want to refuse the nominations of teams from new countries in the future, because they are too weak?
I think the mistake is that you seem to think that players travel to qualify for the WC, but I think this number is very low, the huge mass of players travel with their team to play for team ranking points, if you cancel that, I think we will see numbers going down in the international tournaments.
Kostas to your post I only can say, that you don't understand the situation in many countries as it seems. There are some reasons why players choose to play abroad.

1. no regular activities in their own country
2. problems in the association between several people
3. not enough players to have a good team to play abroad
4. foreign players of the same country can't create one club because of personal problems or sponsored trips they get when playing outside of their own country.

If you think you are going to solve the problem by only allowing 1 foreign player for each club, I think you are totally wrong, because then only more clubs are going to have 1 foreign player, but I don't think that even 1 will go back to a club in his country.

Heinz
pierocapponi wrote:For Heinz;

I do not believe that a board must be asking "opinions" every five minutes to countries. So the countries voting. Otherwise it's better to make a board of presidents and a board.

What you say, in practice, does not change things. You know how many teams play classification by ranking across Europe? 2 Milan and Bologna.

They are the only two teams that are struggling to Italy and can do so by ranking.

The other teams from other countries up to now were just because. I remember that Real Soccer Total playing his first game in the team ..... champion. Which I find absurd and ridiculous. This happened because there was no playoff teams.

They usually do not think anyone can travel only by a ranking point ... that is not helpful in any case to qualify. I think we have to create events for players and escorts. I do not think Azzure Fiamme gone to Milton for the point ranking.

For Kostas:

I think the only difference between sport and professional sport is the way to live it. To all who play a sport you like to live it. There is no sport for the sport.

There are no "professional" football table, but this does not mean you would not like to many to be paid to play.

Italy has a professional attitude. There are people who work daily to get money and then spend it on bringing aliens or to buy more and more beautiful shirts. I think it is a respectable attitude. Each is free to do whatever he wants with his money.

In Spain we are working to "recover" players who play outside. We can get just a few reasons: A competitive league, a well-organized tournaments, a fun and relaxed, a joint effort to grow.

I have a scheduled meeting in Portugal this month, I will see them to propose the creation of an Iberian League, an exchange in tournaments, joint promotional activities and things like that help the mutual growth.

I've often thought that limiting the number of foreigners to the best "can compel" a lot to play at home. The truth is, but I think that people who do not feel like work ... it is hard to force them to work

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Tue May 04, 2010 6:29 pm

Heinz, a fun game we could do and "simulate" the two competitions.

A 24 and a Champions League Europe 16 according to the new criteria not?

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  SergLoureiro on Tue May 04, 2010 7:54 pm

Admin wrote:Just a new topic to ask the players' opinion about the Europa League.

As you probably know, my opinion about the Europa League is that it's just a big joke. It will just help Italy to get more pride even if italians say it's "good for the game".

Sorry but we are in a world were among the best teams in the world, there are many italian teams but also Mattersburg (Austria), ASH, Charleroi, Stembert, JSC & TS Rochefort (Belgium), Falcons, Roligans (Greece), Delft (Netherlands), Murcia, Tiburones, Turia (Spain) and Cardiff (Wales).

I don't understand the point to have an Europa Cup where the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th teams from Italy will play against very weak teams. To make an idea, I don't see how more nations will be able to send teams. Let's take it case by case:
- Spain: maybe one team will play the EL but last year, Barcelona and Turia were amont the teams that had the chance to play the EC in Tournai and failed to come...
- Belgium: OK, maybe the 5th & 6th teams of the Belgian team will come but it's not sure and they have absolutely no chance to win the event;
- France: in the last few years, France wasn't able to send more than 2 teams to the EC.
- Greece: Greece has maybe a potential (like Belgium), to send one or 2 teams.
- England: they alreadys truggle to send teams abroad so...
- Malta: same as England. Only Hamrun plyed the last EC and they did not even have a team at the Grand Prix of Malta last week!
- Wales: Cardiff is the only active club.
- Scotland: their never play abroad so I don't see how they could have teams in both the EC and the EL.
- Netherlands: Delft and Rijnmond could play the EC but I don't see any 3rd team to play the EL.
- Germany: maybe one team could play the EL but it will be difficult.
- Austria: there are only 3 clubs travelling abroad so i don't see how they wil find more teams to play the EL.
- Portugal, Norway, Denmark: ?

Well, the idea of the Europa League is basically good but in general I think it will never work because most national associations are not strong enough and don't have strong leagues enough.

Just my opinion though...

I totally agree with Vincent, the same as i said before on Italian Forum...

Piero, you've a meeting in Portugal this month? With the APS President? Really surprised, honestly...

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue May 04, 2010 10:30 pm

pierocapponi wrote:
Kostas, the decision on this competition is official and has been officially communicated to the federations and clubs for some time already.

STOP, Piero ! The decision is NOT official !

1. In Frankfurt Stefano de Francesco promised to prepare a proposal for the asscociations. We talked about a proposal ! The congress did not accept anything ! To send out a "decision" does not mean it is a decision. FISTF wanted to make a decision, but in fact we got a proposal.

2. The german association entered an official objection and send this to FISTF.

I disagree totally with the way of handling this subject. That has mainly two reasons:

1. A " decision" should be written without formal mistakes !
2. A decision in this case can only be made by the asociations.

The way the current board is acting in this certain case is totally ignoring the Frankfurt intentions.

Yours in sport
Janus Gersie

P.S. I am still waiting for a reply of the Board about our contradiction !
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue May 04, 2010 10:38 pm

pierocapponi wrote:I do not believe that a board must be asking "opinions" every five minutes to countries. So the countries voting. Otherwise it's better to make a board of presidents and a board.

The board must ask the associations. The board is only the executing part of the decisions taken by the associations. That's it as long as we are what we are ....the board is free to decide in the daily business and has to propose developments to the associations. The assocciations will decide f they want the developments or not. Full stop. Everything else is not democratic.

If the associations would decide NOT to follow a "professional" way the board MUST accept this. It is not up to the board to decide what is good or bad for tablesoccer.

Following this argumentation line the "decision" for changes in the EuropaCup can only be a proposal. You should know that you only were elected until September ... and you want to be re-elected. So take care of the associations ....

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Thossa on Tue May 04, 2010 10:49 pm

Let us facing the fact.

Yes, indeed I confirm what Heinz and Janus already wrote. In Frankfurt was decided to send proposals about EC and WC to the associations. Thats true.

But in the minute of the congress is written a different version about it: The Sports Director will form a commission and a detail report is to reach FISTF in the coming weeks.

My interpretation out of all is: the provisional BoD don´t want to lead FISTF, they want to reign FISTF.
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Tue May 04, 2010 11:26 pm

1) I'm so tired of hearing talk board Thoss "provisional." Knows better than anyone that this provisional decision is ours. Are we that we have decided so. We could have ruled the next four years according to the statutes without any problem.



2) I believe Jenus not clear what is democracy. You live in a federal republic of representatives choose a camera. In all democracies, citizens elect their leaders, who rarely use a tool, the referendum, to hear their views. The FISTF elected every four years their representatives and I think in the last 7 has not met a single conference to make a single decision or sports. I do not accept lessons in democracy of those who have tried all the ways to avoid the conference.



3) A committee has absolutely nothing to do with a referendum of the countries. know if this commission exist? know if you have worked? Why do not you ask before you protest?



4) This is an unofficial forum, the response the requests have to do through official channels.



5) Never the previous board has asked the association no opinion on the sport changes. They are responsible for the assembly of the countries changes related to the statutes of the FISTF and not on sports issues. Incidentally, I have been vice president of the Spanish Federation and now I'm the President. In the last two years the FISTF not ever wondered about a sporting decision.



6) is curious that the same has claimed a world cup (by three votes in favor and two against) to a town of 8,000 people for not giving it to Rome for a week of a conference they knew they would want to lose kind of democracy, consensual decisions to others. You asked the member countries of the FISTF who felt a world cup in Rain?



7) Thoss sorry you're the last one can speak of his reign. The previous board still talk of a coup when it comes to elections. The real problem is that you had checked and still not know to explain as you have been losing control of the FISTF.



Cool As a general comment, the attitude towards Germany, the current Board is of infinite patience. But I am personally very tired of listening to any argument and attacks with a tone of utter contempt for the Board. Delighted to accept this criticism and I'm in this forum arguments and explanations, per the contempt not stand. I remind you also that the Board "provisional" has assumed and assumed all liabilities of the previous Board without protest and without reproach anyone.



9) Stefano De Francesco I hope you have time and inclination to go through here and explain why this reform, anyway, I do not think the French Revolution .... no arguments are much more important and more urgent by which Germany could spend their energies ....



Greetings from Madrid



Piero

ps: For Sergio, if I have today confirmed the possibility of reunion, I'm looking for a flight to Lisbon in May or June.

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  SergLoureiro on Wed May 05, 2010 12:53 am

One more time i ask you all to be a little more soft in your words, this is our FISTF BoB, elected by the majority of FISTF member countries, so, we can agree or disagree but we've to take care about some comments we made... As i said before, i don't agree with Europa League, we can discuss this question in a constructive way.

Piero, nice to know you'll come here in Portugal very soon to offer your "hand" helping us... I wish you good luck, i'll be not there, but i really hope the APS president could receive your proposals and cooperate.

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed May 05, 2010 12:57 am

pierocapponi wrote: We could have ruled the next four years according to the statutes without any problem.

.... You know like me that this is not true.


pierocapponi wrote: 2) ... In all democracies, citizens elect their leaders, who rarely use a tool, the referendum, to hear their views. The FISTF elected every four years their representatives and I think in the last 7 has not met a single conference to make a single decision or sports. I do not accept lessons in democracy of those who have tried all the ways to avoid the conference.

Electing does not mean to give away the power! The associations are FISTF, not the Board ! I remembered the old board not only one time about this fact and I won't stop telling the new Board the same.


pierocapponi wrote: 3) A committee has absolutely nothing to do with a referendum of the countries. know if this commission exist? know if you have worked? Why do not you ask before you protest?

No comment as I didn't get what you try to explain.

pierocapponi wrote: 4) This is an unofficial forum, the response the requests have to do through official channels.

The protest has been send through the official channels. Don't worry !

pierocapponi wrote: 5) Never the previous board has asked the association no opinion on the sport changes. They are responsible for the assembly of the countries changes related to the statutes of the FISTF and not on sports issues. Incidentally, I have been vice president of the Spanish Federation and now I'm the President. In the last two years the FISTF not ever wondered about a sporting decision.

It is not a question of the former board. It is a question on how the new Board is managing FISTF. If you are willing to go the same way as the former Board: why did we elect a new Board ? For changes !


pierocapponi wrote: 6) is curious that the same has claimed a world cup (by three votes in favor and two against) to a town of 8,000 people for not giving it to Rome for a week of a conference they knew they would want to lose kind of democracy, consensual decisions to others. You asked the member countries of the FISTF who felt a world cup in Rain?

STOP! We supported FISTF because otherwise FISTF perhaps wouldn't have had a WC ! We didn't know in advance that Italy also asked for the WC. It is just a question on how the german association felt on supporting FISTF. I never was part of the decision process. We applied for the WC and finally got the honour to organise the coming WC.


pierocapponi wrote: Cool As a general comment, the attitude towards Germany, the current Board is of infinite patience. But I am personally very tired of listening to any argument and attacks with a tone of utter contempt for the Board. Delighted to accept this criticism and I'm in this forum arguments and explanations, per the contempt not stand. I remind you also that the Board "provisional" has assumed and assumed all liabilities of the previous Board without protest and without reproach anyone.

PATIENCE ? Regarding what ? Patience that we stepped in to organise a WC ??????? I think your view on this topic is a little bit strange ! To organise a WC is not an amusement trip. We have to bundle all strengths to get the WC managed. You should change your view on this topic as soon as possible. We won't excuse for organising a WC this year.

PATIENCE ? Regarding what ? That this small german association did a hell lot of work in the past years for FISTF ? I don't have to hide ... and you have to proof first to do the same hard work as we did. I ask first what I can do for FISTF. Are you asking yourself the same ?

And after a few weeks or months you are already tired of listening ? What would have happened if we would have elected the new Board for four years ? We would have a "tired" Board for the rest 3,5 years ?


pierocapponi wrote: 9) Stefano De Francesco I hope you have time and inclination to go through here and explain why this reform, anyway, I do not think the French Revolution .... no arguments are much more important and more urgent by which Germany could spend their energies ....

Maybe Germany would write less in this Forum if we would get more answers.


Yours in sport

Janus Gersie
President DSTFB e.V.
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Admin on Wed May 05, 2010 6:36 am

I fully agree with Janus' comments but I have a bit more to say.

We all know how the new Board cheated to be elected. Details needed?
- the french association had a meeting before the meeting in Frankfurt and they decided NOT to vote in Frankfurt (it's written in the meeting minutes). Laurent Garnier took alone the decision to vote (!), which is a decision that would give him a red card if he was working for a company;
- the vote of Wales was not counted (even if everybody knew what their vote was);
- Gibraltar was given some sponsorships a few days before the Frankfurt meeting. Guess who they voted for then...;
- The organizers from the Netherlands were given many phone calls to be "under pressure" to vote for the new Board...
All this was enough to have a different results at the end of elections that should never have happened.
And I remember the hipocrisy of the new Board members who all said during the introduction of the Frankfurt meeting "we don't come here to take over, we come for the good of the game". So funny...

Once again, I repeat these elections were nothing but a "take over". The new Board provoked the meeting (or Congress) just to throw away the next Board, something that had never happened int he past. When Dave Baxter was president, we all know how things were bad sometimes but NEVER (and I repeat NEVER nobody was ready to throw him away. It's just a question of how you respect people in charge or not.

About your comments against Germany, you are ridiculous. Nobody was against a meeting/conference but many were against a "fake Congress". We have all the proofs that the "conference" was just a way to take over "on purpose".

As for information from the official ways, how comes the new opfficial FISTF forum (promised for April 12) is still not active? This is another proof the Board is working on promises. Only promises...

As for point 5, don't say the previous Board never asked the associations about changing the rules. Sorry but in some of your decisions, you are just proving to be "off topic". When we decided to select only 8 players from the world rankins for the ladies and U15 sections, it's was because there are reasons. See how the list of selected players for the ladies world cup looks. It's just RIDICULOUS! Ask Olivier Père and Heinz Eder how many times they sent letters to the associations to know their opinions about the important sports changes. it's unbelievable there was no opinion asked about the creation of the Europa League but the way Stefano De Francesco answered tot he people present in Frankfurt and then took decisions on his own proves he's just a "dictator", not a director.

About point 6, sorry but in a Board of 7, when you ask 7 people to vote, if 2 don't vote and 3 vote for option 1 and 2 for option 2, option 1 is hosen. That's democracy! Let me remind everyone that the world cup 2010 had to be played in DENMARK, not in Germany or Italy. Thank you to all those who helped to destroy the denish project!

Just as a general comment, the Board has to accept that many associations (the big majority of associayions, not only member nations but all countries where we play table football, which means more than 35 countries) just don't want to "be like Italy". of course we respect the fact that table football in Italy is huge but that's all.

Curling is 1000 times more popular in Canada than in any other country in the world. Baseball is a religion in the USA and Cuba but is almost nothing in the rest of the world and we can't do much to have cycling very popular in Ghana so I think many people are fine with the current situation of table football int heir country. We all hope to have more active players around but the situation is OK. And even if tomorrow a country like Switzerland or Sweden had the game available in shops and suddenly 1000 players show up, you just need organizers to run things. And most of the time we need organizers who put table football as the number 1 priority in life, which is almost never happening.

I think that instead of creating a second Europa Cup which will be very difficult to organize because there are not many available organizers, the new Board should just remember that table football has been struggling over the last 10 years to have organizers. Those who attended the world cup in Birmingham in 2002 know where we're coming from and all the improvement made since then. Those who just appeared int able football int he last 24 months can say "oh, things are not professional and we'd better improve this or that" but once again, there is a huge lack of respect for all the work done by volunteers over the last decade.
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Wed May 05, 2010 8:45 am

Bullshit..... dictator...... ridicolous........

Dear Piero these are the words of 'ex-president Vincent Coppenolle. Why should I waste my time arguing with him.

All those who want to talk with me can do so directly. Someone sent me emails or called me and I explained my ideas. Please call me or send me an email:

sdefrancescofistf@libero.it
skype Stefano De Francesco
mobile 00393939112673
I'm at your disposal

P.S. I see that Janus has a lot to write on this forum ........

my dream is to see that his words become reality in Germany. He comes to me explain how I do the work. This is the situation of his country ...... perhaps 90 million inhabitants and perhaps 50 members.

My opinion and my attitude is that before speaking would be better to show that I can do my job.

P.P.S. - I apologize to all other forum members. I can not stand those who can only talk. Sorry again

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed May 05, 2010 10:05 am

pierocapponi wrote:
2) I believe Jenus not clear what is democracy. You live in a federal republic of representatives choose a camera. In all democracies, citizens elect their leaders, who rarely use a tool, the referendum, to hear their views. The FISTF elected every four years their representatives and I think in the last 7 has not met a single conference to make a single decision or sports. I do not accept lessons in democracy of those who have tried all the ways to avoid the conference.

Comment:
I don't know where you take the information or who informed you that somebody avoided a conference, I don't give a comment on that, because it is only written without any knowledge.

Only explain to me what special things were decided in Frankfurt for the sport which couldn't have been done without a meeting. I don't know a single one. I don't think that a meeting is needed to decide about a rule's commission and other commissions, sorry. I'd prefer it to spend that time to work instead of producing hot air, especially when things happen a different way than decided at that meeting afterwards.

5) Never the previous board has asked the association no opinion on the sport changes. They are responsible for the assembly of the countries changes related to the statutes of the FISTF and not on sports issues. Incidentally, I have been vice president of the Spanish Federation and now I'm the President. In the last two years the FISTF not ever wondered about a sporting decision.

Sorry to say that, but Spain was one of the countries with very poor communication towards the FISTF board. There was no feedback, because the associations felt excluded from the discussion about changes, the same way decisions are taken now. Do you want the same situation from november again? I don't want to.

6) is curious that the same has claimed a world cup (by three votes in favor and two against) to a town of 8,000 people for not giving it to Rome for a week of a conference they knew they would want to lose kind of democracy, consensual decisions to others. You asked the member countries of the FISTF who felt a world cup in Rain?

Comment:
You can change that now, but as it seems you are not interested too, did you ask the members if the WC should take place in Rome? How did the board take the decision to give the World Cup to Rome? I think there wasn't be a big difference to the way of the old board, so I think you shouldn't blame any previous board as long as you take the decisions the same way.

7) Thoss sorry you're the last one can speak of his reign. The previous board still talk of a coup when it comes to elections. The real problem is that you had checked and still not know to explain as you have been losing control of the FISTF.

Comment:
Do you check what you are doing at the moment? You are blaming and making fun of people who critizize the work done so far by the new board and only use the argument in case of Janus to have a better look on his own association. If previous boards would act the same way, the same things could be said about Spain, Malta, England, France and so on. You have to know the history to make things better for the future. You should take the chance to improve the work of the current board. Nobody is perfect, but we were not as lucky as you to get known what is wrong and what is right in the opinion of FISTF's members.

Cool As a general comment, the attitude towards Germany, the current Board is of infinite patience. But I am personally very tired of listening to any argument and attacks with a tone of utter contempt for the Board. Delighted to accept this criticism and I'm in this forum arguments and explanations, per the contempt not stand. I remind you also that the Board "provisional" has assumed and assumed all liabilities of the previous Board without protest and without reproach anyone.

Comment:
Sorry, I don't understand that.

9) Stefano De Francesco I hope you have time and inclination to go through here and explain why this reform, anyway, I do not think the French Revolution .... no arguments are much more important and more urgent by which Germany could spend their energies ....

Comment:
You should be happy to get feedback, even if it is not positive, instead of ignoring and making fun of those who give you a feedback.
Stefano wants to promote the national championships and thinks that teams are more concentrating on travelling than playing the national championship at the moment. He doesn't want that so he wants only teams qualified via the national championship.

Greetings from Madrid
Greetings from Vienna


Piero

Heinz

ps: For Sergio, if I have today confirmed the possibility of reunion, I'm looking for a flight to Lisbon in May or June.

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Wed May 05, 2010 12:02 pm

Jenus: This is the text of the act of congress. You know English much better than me.

Presentation of the Provisional Board
The President of the new board of FISTF present the new board:

The newly elected board of directors, declared that due to the circumstances to which the election was called, this Board will be provisional taking care of FISTF till next September when a Congress will be held with new elections.

This Provisional Board is to work on a strategy for a four year term which will be presented to all of you during the Congress next September for your suggestions and approval. The intention of this Provisional Board is to offer a solid base for reflections to the future of our sport, immaterial who will be acting on the future boards.

We assure that the possibility of anyone who would like to join this venture and work for the future of this sport is more than welcome.

President Silvio Catania

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Thossa on Wed May 05, 2010 12:21 pm

pierocapponi wrote:1) I'm so tired of hearing talk board Thoss "provisional."

Are you kidding me? Shocked
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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Wed May 05, 2010 12:38 pm

Yes of course!!!!!! Laughing

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Re: Europa League: for or against?

Post  Guest on Wed May 05, 2010 12:39 pm

Vincent writes what is difficult to comment on.

Some things if I want to say:

- Gibraltar, which is not a country, and their presence also creates a political problem Spain is an invention of Vincent. The Spanish federation works with them from day one. They were people like Granados, Heredia, Murciano, Montaño which has helped Alan Crisp, Manolo Martinez and all her friends to start with table football. We wanted to involve them in the Spanish league and today are friends more.

- It's amazing that Vicente discuss it. He knows very well that Total Soccer has helped many countries, Cipro, Pakistan, Portugal, Argentina, Angola, Brazil, etc. etc. .. .. and that what we are doing.

- Incredible Vincent also talks about Gibraltar when he has received the vote of India that has a player, and Monaco which has 4.

- It is incredible that does not realize that Italy, Spain, Malta, Greece, France, Holland, England, Scotland, Argentina addition to Gibraltar, voted against it. By the way, with a vote of Wales would have lost anyway.

- I want to remind non Vincent that Denmark is a member of the FISTF.

- I also remind Vincent, a journalist that the press medium offense is a crime.

Jenus finish telling that one thing is the discussion, constructive criticism, proposals, ideas, and quite another, the offense, defamation and maleducacion.

When you want to really know what we are doing could explain such as we have gone from 38-168 players (more than half under 19) in Spain in 18 months.

Of course this is not interesting. Nothing interesting to discuss, get jeans and drinking beer.

Calm down everyone, not going to get tired of non work.

Gracias desde Madrid.

Piero

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