Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:46 pm

Belgium, England, Gibraltar, Spain also. And France Very Happy

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:50 pm

Any info about this meeting? What was discussed, what was the atmosphere, who were there etc?

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:26 pm

Well, the atmosphere was rather good because most people came with the following spirit: "we are here to get rid of the old Board, we won't bother Garnier too much because what is done is done and it's too late to complain, we want to speak about the future".
Some things like the finances of FISTF (and in particular the financial report of the world cup) were full of unbelievable things (to give you an example FISTF paid more than 1800 EUROS to Garnier's company to produce stickers to decorate the tables) but as most people thought it was too late to change anything, we decided to concentrate on the future!

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:48 pm

Admin wrote:
Some things like the finances of FISTF (and in particular the financial report of the world cup) were full of unbelievable things (to give you an example FISTF paid more than 1800 EUROS to Garnier's company to produce stickers to decorate the tables) but as most people thought it was too late to change anything, we decided to concentrate on the future!

I have nothing against people wanting to speak about the future.

But, but, BUT!

If it is as clear as this that there is downright criminal financial activity, which harms FISTF (it's not wealthy) and its members, then it's quite clear that this can't be brushed under a carpet.

The new BoD has the duty to confront the old BoD and especially Garnier about things like this. And most probably demand compensation or sue. There are no other possibilities. He has clearly misused his position to gain personally (his company).

I don't know the french law that well, but in Finland this sort of thing could cause the authorities to cancel the whole federations existence, as it would be against the statutes and therefore the law.

I'm going to suggest to our federation, that we demand full closure on the financial subject, and after that measures have to be taken according to that. We have definitely not paid our membership fees to make Garnier earn money for his business etc.

Looking forward is good, but you can't accept and forget just about anything, only by using that mantra. And if you don't clear up the past, there will not be a clear future. For me this has become evident following FISTF.

But, I'm pleased that it was in some ways positive. Now you just have to get for example the italians and the spanish along as well.

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:00 pm

Well, the financial report of FISTF has NOT been approved because of too many things missing. Hopefully this will be sorted out soon!

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:45 pm

Admin wrote:Well, the financial report of FISTF has NOT been approved because of too many things missing. Hopefully this will be sorted out soon!

Ok, that's good news! I see that I jumped to conclusions. Sorry about that.

Out of curiosity I checked the price of stickers from a finnish supplier, and an example price for 1000 stickers size 3cm x 10cm was 135 euros! And this included cutting to form and with multiple colours. And this supplier was probably not the cheapest, but the first one I found that had the price catalogue in the net. And the price level should be even lower in many other countries...

So it's quite clear that a price of 1800 euros (how many stickers and which size?) must be questioned. I expect to see clarification of the order, which I then can send to a finnish supplier and ask for a price. If that 1800 really is competitive price on the free market (realiable market with safe products, not China by email), then everything is fine.

And I have no doubts that the current BoD will go through the finances properly and know what to do in case of mismanagement.

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:30 am

Dear Vesa, I don't want to take side for anybody, but the most expensive thing when doing things like that is the artwork I guess and not the printing on its own.
I don't know the stickers and I don't know the invoice items, but the FISTF Financial department hopefully has a detailed invoice.
Of course it doesn't look nice that the company of the former FISTF president is involved in that, but if the FISTF Board evaluated the cheapest company and the result was that the president's company was the cheapest one, it shouldn't be a problem. Wink
For me the much more disgusting story seems to be the dinner of the WC in Manchester. First of all the french delegation never said "Thank you" to the rest for paying their tickets, the second thing is that according on my information FISTF didn't pay the bill yet (and also don't want to), but the money never came back to those who paid for that dinner.
This directly affects the players and officials of the associations (except of the french delegation).

Heinz


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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Admin on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:44 pm

And when the scottish players arrived at the dinner, there was no food left...

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:36 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Dear Vesa, I don't want to take side for anybody, but the most expensive thing when doing things like that is the artwork I guess and not the printing on its own.
I don't know the stickers and I don't know the invoice items, but the FISTF Financial department hopefully has a detailed invoice.
Of course it doesn't look nice that the company of the former FISTF president is involved in that, but if the FISTF Board evaluated the cheapest company and the result was that the president's company was the cheapest one, it shouldn't be a problem. Wink

Yes, Heinz. I agree, that there is no problem, if it was the cheapest (or just about the same). I meant that, but maybe didn't write it clearly. I also didn't think that Garnier's company produces stickers and also makes artwork. I thought it was just for production. In that case I'd like to see separate tenders for production and artwork. I know there are many TF people able to do basic artwork for that need, and probably for only a bit of money. But, we'll see when the finances are clarified.

Heinz Eder wrote:For me the much more disgusting story seems to be the dinner of the WC in Manchester. First of all the french delegation never said "Thank you" to the rest for paying their tickets, the second thing is that according on my information FISTF didn't pay the bill yet (and also don't want to), but the money never came back to those who paid for that dinner.
This directly affects the players and officials of the associations (except of the french delegation).

This is disgusting, naturally. I remember that this was already discussed after the WC. However, regarding mismanagement in financial issues, I don't want to rate things according to disgust. Any mismanagement is mismanagement, and equal when it comes to the law and regulations of associations.

The whole reason for raising the issue, for me, is to make sure that wanting to see a brighter future doesn't make people forget that there are serious things needing clarification.

I'm happy when I read a clarification that answers all those questions and see action taken based on that, if it shows irregularities, mismanagement, or personal (or country) gain on the cost of FISTF or other players.

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Wed May 08, 2013 5:53 pm

Any news about the finances from the latest "Garnier era"? With Vincent gone, is there anyone in the FISTF BoD left who has the guts and interest to clarify everything...

Is anyone interested anymore about anything regarding FISTF? There is zero discussion to be seen in the net, and I haven't seen many letters either.

Sad

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Lorenzo on Wed May 08, 2013 6:47 pm

Vesa, FISTF is alive and kicking!

Unfortunately, it looks like folks get interested in it only when there is some revival of the war of the buttons (have a look at the Italian forum for confirmation What a Face ).

Yelling is cool, doing something constructive is boring. And De Francesco never gets tired of playing his power games.
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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Admin on Thu May 09, 2013 6:59 am

Even on the Facebook FISTF page, Luis is banning people who have a different opinion. Sad reality Sad

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Sat May 11, 2013 12:03 pm

Lorenzo, I don't use facebook or any other "social" media than forums. And on the forums it's quiet about FISTF. Except maybe in Italy.

What I mean is serious discussion internationally. For example about the finances, rules, Majors etc.

About the war of the buttons. I understand your point, but you don't always appreciate that FISTF feuds have such a history, and new problems surface all the time (like Garnier's era, Manchester WC, Madrid voting among so many others), that it's quite impossible to have any positive discussion if these things are not clarified. And there seems to be zero unification going on.

Can you answer me why FISTF has not clarified the finances of Garnier's time and demanded compensation from him for all the irregularities (like the reported cheaper food for the french players...). I'm a serious person in this regard. I have absolutely zero interest in contributing to something that seems to have problems following its own rules and which is not interested in clarifying its past problems. There is no credibility in FISTF. So unfortunately also my comments will continue to be about things that bug me. You do remember what I offered a few years ago, when I still believed in FISTF. Until things change I have no interest in contributing.

FISTF needs an active uncensored open discussion forum and it needs to come up with answers. The finances (Manchester, Garnier's sticker business etc) from last year is a good start.

Sorry,
Button Warrior

p.s. This is not personal towards any individual because I don't know why things are not happening.

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue May 14, 2013 2:02 pm

Hi Vesa,
about the finances I can't say anything, I only can say that there happened something with the Majors which was communicated to the associations.

Heinz

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  von K. on Fri May 17, 2013 10:21 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Vesa,
about the finances I can't say anything, I only can say that there happened something with the Majors which was communicated to the associations.

Heinz

Hi Heinz,

Yes small things are happening and of course I know the current BoD does the basic work better than any BoD's after Frankfurt.

I just believe that nothing really will change before bigger issues are dealt with accordingly. And without making an inquiry about Garnier's finances I don't have any trust in FISTF. Same goes to some other actions of BoD's before that (for example the Greece Major...).

I also feel that serious, open discussion is lacking regarding rules, ranking point system, World Cup system etc. The bulk of TF players has gone silent a long time now. No discussions on forums anymore about anything. Or has everyone gone to facebook... (where I will never go). Asking associations is a good thing, but it only gives a very narrow view on things. Especially if its done with small surveys, and not on a closed forum through discussion.

It's just sad. Seeing how enthusiastic people were a few years ago.

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Re: Garnier convocates a congress in Paris!

Post  Admin on Fri May 17, 2013 11:51 pm

Even on Facebook the level of conversation is very poor, in particular since FISTF has decided people with different ideas are not welcome to take part.

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