Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

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Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:25 pm

Hey, what's going on ? We are receiving letters like the attached and no discussion is ongoing ?????


From: FISTF General Secretary Leonidas Koutroumanos
To: National Associations Chairmen/National Associations G. Secretary/Players
October 13th, 2012

Subject: Request for new FISTF elections

To: FISTF National Association’s presidents

Dear All,
I am sending this mail as the General Secretary of FISTF and I want to inform you about the current situation. Until today I made a lot of efforts to keep me and the current BoD of FISTF secure. I tryied to keep unity and I didn’t stop to work for the good of our sport even there were days that my health or my work didn’t let me to do.

But now the situation is unstable, I cannot doing my work and the work of the last 15 months that came from Mr Luis Horta, Mr.Fred Vulpes and myself is in danger. In the last days I discovered that the current President of FISTF is working behind my back in purpose and he wants only to save his position. He is trying to cover me and FISTF statutes with a new idea, the idea of having Secretary for the President and in order to speak for him when the president isn’t there. This is an unbeliavable decision that came from the current President in order to cover my duties and my work. Many days I am asking from the current President to give me the access for the website and for the group at facebook in order to update it….nothing did until now. Today I saw that the website start to be updated but without my valuable help, work and informations that I have. After the last letter of Mr. Fred Vulpes and after the last decisions of the President I have no other solution except one. As stated in its Statutes, the aims of FISTF are:
• To promote the sport table football in all possible ways.
• To develop friendly relationships between officials and players of National Associations by promoting the organization of matches of the sport table football in every area.
• To manage the sport table football by taking all necessary statutory and regulatory measures and decisions for the sports, administrative and financial management of the sport table football al the world level.
• To take all necessary measures to prevent breach of the Statutes and regulations of FISTF.
• To settle and adjudicate any controversy, dispute or claim arising between National Associations by enacting statutory, regulatory or other appropriate measures.

Twenty year after the creation of the FISTF these aims are not completely fulfilled due of several kind of internal problems always related with personal or commercial interests and influences, involving different sources.

At the current time we reached a new crossroad, on which we need to find our way again. There are several different paths to follow and shall be the nations who must choose that way. However it is very important to reflect properly about which is the correct one from the followings:

• Maintain the current situation without elections until 2015 as requested by the current FISTF ad interim president, with several not elected members, and including new members to replace those who have resigned.
• Request new elections in order to find a new FISTF Board whose main task is putting FISTF back to the right track, supported by all national associations and creating a big unity movement around the FISTF.

Nevertheless, we need to look back to the past with real attention and we must avoid committing the same mistakes done on the last 20 years. Ignore this it will be the same as pushing FISTF to the abyss that will take it to its extinction.

There is a single solution for the FISTF and this solution shall involve all the nations, which are really interested in having a real and fair sport, in a unified community around the same ideals and dreams. We all know that the majority of the national associations are crossing difficult times, and some of them have serious internal problems.

However, these nations must be aware that helping FISTF to find the proper way, this it may help them to solve their internal problems too. Only a unified and global community will survive in the future.

Thus, the nations must understand that only a strong FISTF with a strong Board of Directors can really help our sport. This is the moment for the nations to act and to make their voices heard. National associations must request new elections under the FISTF Statutes. Only a third of the FISTF members will be necessary to force the situation of having new democratic and fair elections for the FISTF Board of Directors within 3 months time.

Thus, we invite the nations to join us on the request for new FISTF elections. Please send us your response as soon as possible.

Yours in Sport,
Leonidas Koutroumanos
PATFAP President
General Secretary of FISTF
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Admin on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:33 pm

I see the intention but I don't really understand the way things are written...

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:50 pm

German Association DSTFB strongly supports new elections, mainly due to the following reasons:

- Currently difficult conditions to work for Fred Vulpes as Finance Director. Currently he is not really able to fulfil his duties as Finance Director and to work as the respectable and trustworthy man we all know him !

- For our understanding the takeover of Laurent Garanier as President was not legalised by the statutes of FISTF. As former General Secretary he was not allowed to become successor of Piero Capponi as President. Therefore we had strong concerns about the legitimacy of the BoD.

- In our view Laurent Garnier was one of the main drivers of the chaotic elections in Madrid.


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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Admin on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:54 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:- In our view Laurent Garnier was one of the main drivers of the chaotic elections in Madrid.
In Frankfurt, too.

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  drastis on Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:36 pm

It is not April the 1st, is it??

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Thossa on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:06 am

I want to similize FISTF with a mixup of Ian Curtis-lyrics: "the ambitions are high, but the reality bites hard." (Joy Division - Love will tear us apart)

It looks like FISTF is like "Tour de France" messed around by an Armstrong and his helpers.

Hopefully FISTF do not lost too much money because of incompetence.

In the end, I think, we will not find together.

Teach me, I am wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-pWSHTQOFs
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:55 pm

Thossa wrote:It looks like FISTF is like "Tour de France" messed around by an Armstrong and his helpers.

Do you really think our FISTF-Armstrong is doped ? Shocked Shocked Shocked
Please take this picture out of my brain ! Cool
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:18 am

Nine nations calling for an EGM !
And Mr. Koutroumanos resigned by today.
The board currently consists of:
- Laurent
- Antonello
- Fred Vulpes (on hold)

It is time to schedule the EGM !
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Lorenzo on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:46 am

Do you think a new round of altercation, probably based not on programs and targets but on encrusted enemities and personal ill-will, shall do any good to the movement?
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:07 am

Can't agree more on your words.
The associations haven't anough time to prepare something serious.
There should have been at least a short periode of consolation before sending the requests (better would have been 1 single request).
Now after 9 individual requests were sent somebody thankfully had the idea to send a new one wigned by all 9!
That good idea had to come from an outstanding person!?
Those who decided to request an EGM didn't even inform all other members about it, have they been scared about the other member's opinion, or didn't they only care what the others will do?
If Luis wouldn't post the news on facebook, nobody would know how many associations called for an EGM finally.

Let's hope the best for the next 3 months and the time after elections.

Heinz
Lorenzo wrote:Do you think a new round of altercation, probably based not on programs and targets but on encrusted enemities and personal ill-will, shall do any good to the movement?

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  mikeburns on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 am

Heinz Eder wrote:Can't agree more on your words.
The associations haven't anough time to prepare something serious.
There should have been at least a short periode of consolation before sending the requests (better would have been 1 single request).
Now after 9 individual requests were sent somebody thankfully had the idea to send a new one wigned by all 9!
That good idea had to come from an outstanding person!?
Those who decided to request an EGM didn't even inform all other members about it, have they been scared about the other member's opinion, or didn't they only care what the others will do?
If Luis wouldn't post the news on facebook, nobody would know how many associations called for an EGM finally.

Let's hope the best for the next 3 months and the time after elections.

Heinz
Lorenzo wrote:Do you think a new round of altercation, probably based not on programs and targets but on encrusted enemities and personal ill-will, shall do any good to the movement?

Heinz, unbelievably, I agree with you!

My view is that Garnier has to go but the way people are going about this is all wrong. There seems to be no plan whatsoever! Luis just keeps telling me "we have to get rid of Garnier first" then we concentrate on elections. My answer to that however is that there is no point having elections if no-one wants to stand. There has to be people ready to come in straightaway.

Basically there is no plan, no leader, no anything! Nobody knows whats going on and I have to say that people will not follow Luis, i dont think he has enough respect in the community. I also dont think Luis has a plan, when i ask him questions he just keeps repeating the same thing, "we must get Garnier out!!" he has absolutely no plan whatsoever

The two people who seem to be leading this are two people who we definitely dont really want to be running things.

It needs new people, who? I have names in my head but I dont know if they would be interested. What we need is some people who are willing and also who, most importantly, are well respected! I dont think Horta or Koutroumanos fall into that latter category.

We need people to step up soon and take charge of this situation!!!


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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Thossa on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:26 pm

Patience, gentlemen. I think there is a plan and I believe there are already (new) people ready to work for FISTF, but not under the current regency. The man who led the revolution in 2010 came in with high ambitions (we want to be more professionell). Three years later this is reduce to "a hobby" (we all have our jobs and not the rhythmn of Luís).

Remember the tricks of Madrid. It is no wonder why everybody is precautious now Exclamation
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:36 pm

The patience has a deadline which is in 3 months.
I don't think that patience is the right attribute after the official requests are already sent.
The associations set themselves under pressure, hopefully it helps them to work and cooperate faster.

Heinz

PS: Only for clearification I always write my personal opinion in discussion forums, please don't understand my words as an official statement of Austria or anything else. I don't want to create misunderstandings.

Thossa wrote:Patience, gentlemen. I think there is a plan and I believe there are already (new) people ready to work for FISTF, but not under the current regency. The man who led the revolution in 2010 came in with high ambitions (we want to be more professionell). Three years later this is reduce to "a hobby" (we all have our jobs and not the rhythmn of Luís).

Remember the tricks of Madrid. It is no wonder why everybody is precautious now Exclamation

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Lorenzo on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:29 pm

This is probably going to be the end of FISTF.

I forsee a new international federation with professional ambitions, including all major countries and centered on Italy. It will be probably confronted by a much-extended WASPA, well-represented in the Northern countries and dominant outside Europe.

Albeit such a prospect pains me at an extent, it is probably the best solution and will come as a relief for all. The war of the buttons must end somehow.
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:03 pm

In my humble opinion the solution only can be new statutes and some people from the most important countries who don't have a problem with each other. FISTF must be the centre of our all interest.
I wouldn't be so negative that it could be the end of FISTF. The end of FISTF can only be a result of associations whos representants are not able to find solutions for the problems together.
One more time, neither those associations who want to be more professional nor those who don't will have a chance on their own. WASPA is a nice thing, but the existance of WASPA is only the result of mistakes done by the FISTF Boards of the past.
Elections never can be the end of something, it should be the start of something. I think some people need to accept the result of elections, we can't vote till everybody is happy.
The problem with that is, that the result of elections like it was in 2011 can't be respected because nobody exactly know if they are valid or not.
So we are coming back on the point of easier and more clear statutes for FISTF especially in that point.

Maybe we need to go back one step with FISTF that we are able to go the next 2 steps forward. WASPA needs to be implemented in FISTF, it is a win-win situation for both sides.
We had many examples of splitted associations in the past, finally it took a lot of time and energy to unit again those countries and now people are talking about a split again? When do we start to learn from the past?

I can't understand the war of buttons. In my opinion it would be more than welcome if more people would discuss and say their opinions. We must learn to accept such discussions and we need to take out the positive ideas of all people who want to be part of such a discussion undependent of their nationality or something else.
One of the most important aims of FISTF for me personally is that different cultures/countries are connected by playing subbuteo/sports table soccer, we shouldn't even think about it to loose that maybe.
FISTF should open our all horizon.

So let's hope for a better future instead of talking about the end of FISTF.

Heinz

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  drastis on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:00 pm

A few words regarding the matter, long posts are difficult to follow.

FISTF is practically idle now. Elections must happen the soonest, else FISTF will die. If we want that, it's fine. If we don't, let's not talk theory.

I don't see why Luis is not appropriate for FISTF BoD, even for president. He works hard for Table Football and he has never been involved in personal disputes. Vincent's come-back would also be welcome, he has definately learnt from his mistakes in the past.

As for other candidates, I cannot imagine that there is even one person in World Table Football that would like to see the most useless person in FISTF history having a place in FISTF BoD again. The one who destroyed table football community during the last years, starting from his own country. You know who I am talking about, I would not like to mention names.

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  von K. on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:31 am

I think it would need a change of personnel also on national level in some countries (not only Greece) to make FISTF work. People who are open to others and see FISTF as our common roof organisation instead of seeing the FISTF BoD as an authoritarian ruling power of a few individuals. It's the only way to have fruitful co-operation and thus the only way forward.

Therefore the question I see as the most essential is: Who will win the FISCT elections in Italy (in November, I think)? As far as I know there are 2 candidates (presidents with their teams). The "old gang" of last 8 years with Enrico Corso (his board has for example Antonio Pizzolato) against the newer faces lead by the very interesting and intelligent (it seems to me) Maurizio Cuzzocrea. If Cuzzocrea's team wins I'm almost certain that the italians would have better official understanding towards the FISTF as a whole. He also has in his program written that the FISTF affairs should have a council in Italy which would discuss how they would see FISTF matters, which would be in stark contrast with the dictatorship with which SdF dealt with FISTF matters previously (which was damaging because of his, even today present, lack of ability for argumentation, read: "we are the biggest, so no one else knows anything").

It would be nice to read how Lorenzo sees the FISCT elections, especially regarding FISTF. I have always liked Cuzzocrea's way of seeing things, but I haven't really noticed the others in his team from the italian forum. So it would be interesting to read Lorenzo's thoughts about them. You probably have also read all the 36 pages of discussion regarding the elections, Lorenzo.

p.s. The "war of the buttons" is not a problem for people who understand what it's about. If TF would have media coverage under credible press the forum writing would not be needed for these things. An investigating journalist would have a field day with FISTF and TF in general, if there just would be any market for such stories...

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Lorenzo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:55 am

von K. wrote:It would be nice to read how Lorenzo sees the FISCT elections, especially regarding FISTF

As you may remember, I am no longer a member of subbuteoforum.it and I don’t stick to the discussions in detail.

Both Corso and Cuzzocrea were board members in the period that the theft of half of the FISCT yearly budget was carried out. Furthermore Corso, as FISCT chairman, is responsible for the stealthy censorship on all attempts at discussing said theft on subbuteoforum -- which is why I quit the community. Both are suspect to me, and unwelcome to candidate for any office.

However, this is of small concern to FISTF matters.

I seem to remember that both programmes convey references to Italy as the movement’s leader nation. I don’t believe either list has any clear idea on how to approach international issues, but Cuzzocrea’s crew might bring some fresh air into play. Besides, Stefano DF opposes him and he might have less influence on a board presided by Cuzzocrea. This in turn might assuage the war of the buttons that has been waged between Stefano and Piero on one side and Vincent and Thossa on the other during the last few years.

By and large I believe that plans and programmes don’t play too large a role. It is more a matter of children eager to destroy their toy rather than let the other child have it. In a movement dominated by immaturity and pettiness, a great deal of politics boils down to small-minded rivalries.

Given FISTF’s loose and inadequate statutes anybody losing the elections is entitled to cry foul play. The head cheerleaders shall ring the bell and the mindless herd will follow suit, as you do even now. FISTF won’t stand another fools’ party like that… which might well be the real aim lurking behind the request for an extraordinary congress.
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:02 pm

Does anyone know about a today's Skype conference with LG and "his supporter nations"?
By the way: who could it be ?
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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:33 pm

It means LG and Antonello speaking together Very Happy

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  von K. on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:47 pm

Admin wrote:It means LG and Antonello speaking together Very Happy

Live on Collins channel... Embarassed

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:20 am

The FISTF president himself continues splitting by talking only to a view nations?

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Re: Letter to the nations from Mr. Koutroumanos

Post  von K. on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:53 am

Heinz Eder wrote:The FISTF president himself

You mean the self claimed president who in fact acts illegally as president. Legally FISTF hasn't had a president after Capponi resigned.

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