10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  von K. on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:48 pm

George, I forgot to ask who, in your opinion, called for the head referee in that game? If Lund had it under control and didn't do it, then who did?

So, who asked for the head referee? And who (were there others than Lund) talked with the head referee? If it was not only Lund, then it was against the rules to my knowledge.

I'm also baffled when I read that it was Papako who yelled for head referee. Why would he do that if Lund allowed the goal to stand?

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  von K. on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:32 am

Here below you can (again that's what I read, haven't gone through all the videos myself) find all the videomaterial from the tournament except that semi final end. Why is it not there, if there is nothing special in it? It was also written by an italian player that he asked to see the footage directly after the situation, but he was told that they were in a hurry to shoot something else just then. Again, just translated from the italian forum.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/26503037

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  georgy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:06 am

von K. wrote:George, I just reported what was written in italian forum. Many there were also present. So it's words against others. Interpretations against others.
As I said, I did not write MY interpretation, but what Lund said to me.
It would be better to have him, who is the only responsible, say his opinion.

About your last question, I can not answer for sure, again Lund should do it, but I know that when the game ended, and since Vasco had scored, all the Atlas players where shouting etc...
So I assume that it was not them who called for the head referee, but I might be wrong. Everything happened in a few seconds.
I know for sure, because I saw it with my eyes that when the head referee came, he took Lund and went to a side to be informed.
I do not know who asked for him. But I find it irrelevant. It is good that they asked him to clarify the situation (or be the one to take the responsibility Very Happy )
As I said before, the case was not black and white, and it is certain that the "other" would feel bad.
If they did not count the goal, then Atlas would feel bad. Now the Italian team feels bad.
They took a decision. It is good that the refs were not Greeks because then this would have made things even worse. As I said this happened because many countries send ZERO teams to CL/EL.
It is not any tournament. It was a CL/EL. Once a year the biggest team tournament.

I guess from now on everyone would be happy to have all the big tournaments in central Europe!

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:00 am

von K. wrote:
It's also reported (by De Francesco) that Papakonstantinou used absurd violence on Saturday when throwing out Kostas from the hall (his crime being that he went into the hall... and of course that he is Kostas...), after which both of them were taken away by the police.
The police called by me. Ι WENT FOR TO SUE THE PAPA. He went as defentant. He apologied to me enough to not sue him. He called lawyer, koutroul's wife!!! I didn't sue when i took a official paper that i can't entrance in hall. This was part of decision of greek BoD. But the rest BoD members denied that is true paper. And retired.

von K. wrote:
And if you think of what happened to your club Olympia a while ago, and that you applied for a membership of our finnish association in order to be able to play, then you really can't wonder why people have their doubts over the greek competitions. You reap what you sow. (not you personally, or the other good greek players)
Vesa, people forget easily and quickly.
But thanks for your memory.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  georgy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:41 am

Athough it is useless and time wasting to have a public conflict with this particular person, I have to
answer to the last hint by him.

kechris wrote:

von K. wrote:
And if you think of what happened to your club Olympia a while ago, and that you applied for a membership of our finnish association in order to be able to play, then you really can't wonder why people have their doubts over the greek competitions. You reap what you sow. (not you personally, or the other good greek players)
Vesa, people forget easily and quickly.
But thanks for your memory.

That's true 100%. Actually 100000000%
Vesa you can easily check the discussion about this case, in this forum! And his comments then.
I remind you that since then FISTF changed the rules, and players are not allowed to be part of a different national association, even if they live abroad. (Mistake in my opinion).

Also you can ask him about his new team, and whether he forgot "easily and quickly" things (to say it very politely) he said/written. Actually plenty of them!
I bet now he can twist things again to present himself as the pure innocent one, he has always been! I have to clarify here that I have no problem with his new teamates and I respect them as players and as persons! But it is a JOKE that HE among all people say that "people forget easily and quickly".

You can also ask him what is his greek nickname (still used) given to him by others long long time ago.... I give you a hint, Plushenko is good at this!

I's at your own risk if you prefer to take for granted ANYTHING said/written by him.

PS "Vesa, people forget easily and quickly". The pachymeter I brought from Finland to Olympia is still missing! It seems that "people forget easily and quickly" to return it! Let's see for how long!

PS2 Just to clarify. I also find what Lazaros did with him, totally stupid and wrong! It is stupid during a big event to create bad atmosphere, even if you think that you are right. Diplomacy in such cases is the best course of action.
I also supported to allow him to play for his new team. But this does not change at all my opinion about him.

PS3 About the incident in the semi-final, I think the best solution would be to have Lund and Scheen write somewhere (at least in CL/EL facebook group) their own explanation, and why they took the decision. It is unfair mainly towards these 2, some comments that I read (not in here).

PS4 haha, I just saw that Scheen replied! I paste here his answer from facebook to Loureiro's comment.

"Just a precision: This decision was taked by Rasmus and me, only. We isolated from everyone to analyse. Before the discussion, I asked Rasmus to not designate by the names but by "attacker" and "defender". It's only after my decision than I know the names and who is advantage by the decision. With all the elements in my possession, I'm sure the decision was correct as I talked with my Italian friends and Vasco."
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  Thossa on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:34 pm

In general I think there is still a big problem for any FISTF BoD with Greece. Even when I think it was a big mistake to move the World Cup 2012 from Athens to Collinstown, I don´t see a change in some elemental things. Still the same keywords like "I sue him", "police in the hall", manipulation of matches", "fake results", etc. from this part of Europe.

The newest grievance it seem is the original trophy of the Europa Cup. It looks like the throphy is still in the hands of the first title holder Atlas Athens and they ignore the term "challenge cup" and don´t want to hand it to Bologna Tigers. Grown-ups tells stories like the throphy broken Shocked

And it looks FISTF BoD is not able to handle it.

Wherefore do we have a Disciplinary Board when a actually suspendate person can play the CL? Why still Greece don´t pay off debts to FISTF without any consequences?
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  drastis on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:35 am

Thossa wrote:In general I think there is still a big problem for any FISTF BoD with Greece. Even when I think it was a big mistake to move the World Cup 2012 from Athens to Collinstown, I don´t see a change in some elemental things. Still the same keywords like "I sue him", "police in the hall", manipulation of matches", "fake results", etc. from this part of Europe.

The newest grievance it seem is the original trophy of the Europa Cup. It looks like the throphy is still in the hands of the first title holder Atlas Athens and they ignore the term "challenge cup" and don´t want to hand it to Bologna Tigers. Grown-ups tells stories like the throphy broken Shocked

And it looks FISTF BoD is not able to handle it.

Wherefore do we have a Disciplinary Board when a actually suspendate person can play the CL? Why still Greece don´t pay off debts to FISTF without any consequences?

Thossa you are a friend of mine. In the name of this friendship I would kindly ask you to not make general comments. Not all Greek players are like the people who ashame the country. Maybe there are too many, but there are also many decent, fair and good-willing players in Greece.

I hope you remember well how bravely and strongly many of us struggled against the "elections" of 2008 when Koutroumanos was "elected". Unfortunately, we were not many enough to manage to get it to the end, although in the meantime the Greek Courts decided twice that the election was a scam. Moreover, we did not find the help he hoped that we would have found in FISTF. FISTF BoD members (you among them) did not realise how dangerous the situation would become finally for FISTF itself. You realised that only when Vincent and his BoD were betrayed and cheated in the most appalling way.

So, please, do not put the blame on the people in "this part of Europe", or should we call it "the birthplace of Europe"?

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:57 am

georgy wrote:
You can also ask him what is his greek nickname (still used) given to him by others long long time ago.... I give you a hint, Plushenko is good at this!
"

The lies is a good way to support your position.
Who called me with this nickname? None.
Only few of my ex team mates. The same persons who now their friend is "Lazaros". But until last year they are opponents in courts...
Everybody friends and enemies told to me for my bad diplomacy. But i am one maybe the only one who didn't change opinion for your new friends.

Do you remember ex europa cup in athens on 2007? You were victim of violence. But 5 years later you wrote for the same occasion "totally stupid and wrong". Vesa's comment was perfect.

I insist. People forget easily and quickly.
Drastis gave a good explanation for the reasons.

p.s all greek and european table soccer community is against papa and koutroul. And you are now his supporter. Bravo.
Even both of his best friends retired of greek BoD for his behaviour and your comment was "totally stupid and wrong". Bravo
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  Thossa on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:39 am

drastis wrote:
Thossa wrote:In general I think there is still a big problem for any FISTF BoD with Greece. Even when I think it was a big mistake to move the World Cup 2012 from Athens to Collinstown, I don´t see a change in some elemental things. Still the same keywords like "I sue him", "police in the hall", manipulation of matches", "fake results", etc. from this part of Europe.

The newest grievance it seem is the original trophy of the Europa Cup. It looks like the throphy is still in the hands of the first title holder Atlas Athens and they ignore the term "challenge cup" and don´t want to hand it to Bologna Tigers. Grown-ups tells stories like the throphy broken Shocked

And it looks FISTF BoD is not able to handle it.

Wherefore do we have a Disciplinary Board when a actually suspendate person can play the CL? Why still Greece don´t pay off debts to FISTF without any consequences?

Thossa you are a friend of mine. In the name of this friendship I would kindly ask you to not make general comments. Not all Greek players are like the people who ashame the country. Maybe there are too many, but there are also many decent, fair and good-willing players in Greece.

I hope you remember well how bravely and strongly many of us struggled against the "elections" of 2008 when Koutroumanos was "elected". Unfortunately, we were not many enough to manage to get it to the end, although in the meantime the Greek Courts decided twice that the election was a scam. Moreover, we did not find the help he hoped that we would have found in FISTF. FISTF BoD members (you among them) did not realise how dangerous the situation would become finally for FISTF itself. You realised that only when Vincent and his BoD were betrayed and cheated in the most appalling way.

So, please, do not put the blame on the people in "this part of Europe", or should we call it "the birthplace of Europe"?

Well, yes, of course, George, I know there is always just a handful of persons, who create problems, and in the end a lot of innocents will be collected in the same pot. It is my deep wish to see Hellas coming again on a right track. Hopefully now the "right" people are able to replace the vacant chairs in the BoD of the greek association.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  drastis on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:53 am

Thossa wrote:
Well, yes, of course, George, I know there is always just a handful of persons, who create problems, and in the end a lot of innocents will be collected in the same pot. It is my deep wish to see Hellas coming again on a right track. Hopefully now the "right" people are able to replace the vacant chairs in the BoD of the greek association.

I hope exactly the same Thossa. It will be difficult though, because behind fat words a secret cause is always hidden. They will not leave the chairs so easily. We will have to earn this back and we will need your help for this. I will write more to you in private, to let you know what I mean. Thanks my friend!

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  georgy on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:17 pm

As I said it is time wasting to engage in public conflict with Kechris.
It is certain that he is going to have the last word, and usually the other gets bored and stops.
But since I am a liar Very Happy I will say a few more things (not any more teamates to constrain myself for the sake of the team!)

As I said if you decide to believe whatever he says do it at your own risk.
I never liked one sided "information". It does not help you see the whole picture. Especially if the source of information is problematic (to say it nicely) and noisy.

His Goebbels tactics and his "'love" on making public, private discussions, because he considers it "information", are second to none! Others can understand the big difference about that.
Especially in his case that there is "noise" (as we say in computer science) in the signal, so his interpretations of ANY situation, ALWAYS fit perfectly the virtual reality he has created in his mind, in which he is always the good, the innocent, the fighter and the others are bad etc...

My friends are my teamates and probably not all of them. For the last year now, everything is very quiet in Olympia (coincidence?). I value the word "friend" a lot in order not to use it so easily. And also players in Greece and around the world that I connect with.

By the way I was NEVER a teamate with Lazaros.
I also was not the one who decided to have a new greek federation with Koutroumanos and Lazaros and split Greece to 2.
Hmmmm..... Do you have anyone in mind?
Is this a continuous deja vu for you all these 30 years that you are active?
Coincidence?
Tell us how many times have you been one of the central figures in cases like this the past 30 years?
You are always the correct one? Nothing is ever your fault? Well, you and ... Jesus.

Kechris sees everything black and white. "If you are not with me then you are supporter of the other."
Well in my case at least, one thing is certain. I am certainly NOT with you, because for me, now that I know you, your way will never solve any conflict. It will just create more, even when there is no problem! Even if your motives are correct! This is what feeds you nowadays rather than the game itself.


Vesa I paste also Rasmus' comment
"Pascal: its correct, only Pascal and I toke the decision, which was the correct decision for Pascal/mé. I know 99,9% of all the players that know Pascal and I, would say that we are always fair and never been any problems!

Sergio: I have the same "feeling", i am really disapointed with some players, i had alot of respect for them before the CL/EL, but it is now gone. I wrote with Vasco yesterday, and told him how i felt... Vasco is, and will also be a good friend of my, but others was really acting like idiots!

My writing in english isnt to good, sorry

Best regards from fucking cold Denmark!

Ras"

I think you get the whole picture, especially from the point of view of the neutral guys (Ras, Scheen).

I think that it would be useful you Vesa, Thossa (Vincent I just saw that he is) to become members of the facebook group by Luis, in which there are many useful discussions about the future. Your opinions would be certaily appreciated by many.

P.S. According to you I am a liar.
What about people who take stuff from others for their personal use and they never return them, even after so many attempts? How do we call them?
P.S. 2 "Who called me with this nickname? None. Only few of my ex team mates." Shocked Shocked
"... for your new friends" I love you lol!

Yeap it is called virtual reality. Your state.
Its just a shame that you never realized that you are part of the problem, that you never preferred to put your own ego behind. Instead you prefer to believe that your ex-teamates are the bad ones who treated you badly. Well do as you wish. Its just a shame you lost a career as a politician in Greece.
As I have said once before you see it written by someone else "it is not raining, they are spitting on on you". You considered it an offence. I said it as a description of your character.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  drastis on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:17 pm

Georgy, would you write my biography too? I really love the way you talk about your ex-team-mates and how you get deep into characters.

Please?

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:12 am

drastis please call me tomorow to tell me what he wrote with few words because i am boring to read all this.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  von K. on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:29 am

georgy wrote:
Vesa I paste also Rasmus' comment
"Pascal: its correct, only Pascal and I toke the decision, which was the correct decision for Pascal/mé. I know 99,9% of all the players that know Pascal and I, would say that we are always fair and never been any problems!

Sergio: I have the same "feeling", i am really disapointed with some players, i had alot of respect for them before the CL/EL, but it is now gone. I wrote with Vasco yesterday, and told him how i felt... Vasco is, and will also be a good friend of my, but others was really acting like idiots!


I never thought Rasmus would have done something fishy. Neither do I think anyone else thought that he did. Same with Pascal Scheen. I also naturally believe what they write here. But I also know human nature, and how it reacts when under pressure (I've seen how especially one person with interest in this reacts at meetings, at the tables and at forums, it's quite intimidating). Not forgetting how memory works. This is not to say there was a problem, but to say that unless those missing videos are there to see, it's impossible to know for sure. The same goes the other way, naturally. The interpretation of events, the memory, the atmosphere, the need to explain an unbearable loss, all could have influenced people's views.

I have also seen with my own eyes from close range the then president of FISTF, Silvio Catania, a big man, rushing to the table pushing people at a WC team final with his country Malta. And I saw there how easily a referee can lose his thoughts when confronted by something like that. This is why I would be very concerned over any reports even suggesting the possibility of aggressivity towards any decision.

In a nutshell the problems raised were
- Guimaraes' conduct after it was thought by many that he had taken the free flick (not waiting for his opponent, when deciding to continue instead), which he himself denied (it would be nice to know if it was ok for both players and Rasmus to continue with extra time, as some reported)
- who called head referee (it's reported by SdF that he heard it was Papako shouting "Paascaaalll!!!")
- the fact that all teams were not treated equally
- intimidation reported by some players (this was a new info from Italy) outside that game

I'll have to wait for an official FISTF report to know what to think of this. Whoever to blame, it's sad that these things come up after a tournament.

In any case it seems that the rules need to be better, or the referees must have the same interpretation of the rules as the players. If this hulabaloo breaks out, but the ref and the head ref say all was ok, then something clearly is wrong in the possibilites of interpretation of rules.

But, for myself, I'll just continue following what is said about this.

georgy wrote:I think that it would be useful you Vesa, Thossa (Vincent I just saw that he is) to become members of the facebook group by Luis, in which there are many useful discussions about the future. Your opinions would be certaily appreciated by many.

Sorry, George, but I have always thought facebook as something utterly revolting, so I will not be joining in. Free forums are enough in my mind to have these discussions. So I don't understand the point in taking a conversation platform somewhere were you have to register your personal info to a firm behind the Atlantic, who don't answer your questions and don't respect the same privacy laws as for example we do in my country.

Any general and open discussion has to be open for reading to also non-members and possibility to take part in conversations has to be without the need to sign up to give personal info to some faceless Twisted Evil firm.

You should tell Luìs that he should advice all the people from there to some forum.

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  Thossa on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:58 pm

From time to time I follow what is written on facebook, but I agree with Vesa´s problem with a faceless firm Laughing very good

The Collins-Channel is very funny (only posting by just one person pale ) and the Horta-Channel is at least productive, even when there is still a die-hard very busy in playing the schoolmaster. Finland and Germany is tired of this Wink
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:59 am

My opinion for rule.
The game stop when the ref say stop.
If the ref say "freekick" or "back" the player can continue without answer because he has the selection for advantage. If the game stop everytime after ref talk then the game will stop many many times for all the "back". And this a lot of wasted time.

The game can stop if the defender ask "change" and a fair play attacker give the time to ref to have a better view but the defender cann't do block after and the ref must give extra time to attacker to finish his effort. The players cann't talk and stop the game when ball or figures moving.

I wrote many years before that i am against orange card. It is a stupid rule. My proposal was for every unfair behaviour red card for a figure. Also for back in moving ball in a clear shoot or in last seconds. Like real football when a defender stop illegal an attacker when he is tet a tet. And the disandvantage to follow the player at next game in the same tournament. So if a player have bad and unfair behaviour during a tournament will continue playing the next matches with less figures.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  von K. on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:08 am

Thossa, I'm sure I'd love those channels. The Collins channel almost makes me wanna join the facepeople What a Face

kechris wrote:My opinion for rule.
The game stop when the ref say stop.
If the ref say "freekick" or "back" the player can continue without answer because he has the selection for advantage. If the game stop everytime after ref talk then the game will stop many many times for all the "back". And this a lot of wasted time.

Yes, but the attacker can't stop playing (means he takes the free flick) and then continue without saying he takes the advantage. This seems to have happened there, and I would imagine also the 5 second rule would come into question there.

But it's all speculation as we don't have the video or any other evidence to view.

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:13 pm

You have totally right.
But a referee with experience and who read the rules carefully in this occasion didn't stop the game few seconds before the end or if stop the game then must give extra seconds to attacker.
The rules are safe. The only responsible for the time and for the end of game is the referee. So one more time the solution was simple.

I cann't understand why they asked head referee. The referee didn't say change didn't say stop the attacker didn't accept freekick, the defender hadn't any reason to start discussion so if the ref wanted to give explanations he had to stop the time and to inform both players for extra seconds.

Yes of course i understand that all happened so fast the pressure was terrible for the referee in a semi final, but the head referee is to inform for rules no to take decisions as referee during the match.

Unfortunately we spend many time for political games and we forgot the game the rules.
I took an information that Stefano asked no more than one foreign player per club. I remember my post before many years when FISTF open the door for more foreign players. I wrote that this will kill the clubs without moneys. Unfortunately also kill the federations without moneys.
Before Europa cups Stefano wrote that the only reason for the small number of participation is that table soccer in many countries is hobby. I think that he is wrong. I remember in past europa cups with 32 teams by 12 different countries and all play for hobby. After moneys change the target of clubs and now we have europa cups with few countries and few teams. And presidents of clubs spend a lot of money so they want the cup more than to enjoy with the participation.

We drove the game to this road so at first we must accept our wrong before we ask to save the game. In greece we have illegal federation illegal elected BoD and we play without conditions for a hobby. I was victim of violence because enter the hall and after i informed that the entrance was closed to me because i hadn't license as player for economic reasons!!!

People in fistf care for their dreams and they forget the table soccer. Who care for us who our dreams is table soccer?
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:48 am

Hello, some points of that discussion are very interesting.

1. No player can ask the referee for a change or a free-kick according on the rules. That isn't written anywhere, the announcement has to be done only by the referee. In reality the situation looks very different, because nearly all referees are too passiv in taking decisions, so it is common use that the players ask the referee.

2. It isn't written down anywhere, that the attacker has to say free-flick or advantage. I think that should be added in the actual version of the rules. That would need to happen automatically if the referee stops the games and ask the attacker.

3. No player ever can ask for the Head Referee, the Head Referee only has to be called, if the referee isn't sure what to decide. Here the problem in my opinion is that the referees again don't have enough self-confidence to take a decision. The player who thinks he is in a disadvantage continues talking till most referees are happy, if the head referee is coming to take a decision instead of solving the situation on his own by telling the player he should be quiet.

4. I can understand the situation of extra time, but honestly I can't understand why the discussion only happens, if the game is close to the end. Do you think it is good to split the game finally into "The End" and "The Rest". There needs to be taken a decision, do we want to play Brutto or Netto time. It is nowhere written down, that the referee has to give some extra-time. If the referee thinks it happened on purpose he has to give the player a card, the rules are protecting no other decision (i don't say it is right or wrong).

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:59 am

Heinz Eder wrote:Hello, some points of that discussion are very interesting.

1. No player can ask the referee for a change or a free-kick according on the rules. That isn't written anywhere, the announcement has to be done only by the referee. In reality the situation looks very different, because nearly all referees are too passiv in taking decisions, so it is common use that the players ask the referee.

THE GOOD REFEREES IN FOOTBALL ARE TALKING WITH PLAYERS DURING THE MATCH. THIS IS A HELP
TO BE COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE. IF THE REFEREE IS WILD THEN WHEN HE DOES A MISTAKE THE SITUATION WILL BE DIFFICULT.

2. It isn't written down anywhere, that the attacker has to say free-flick or advantage. I think that should be added in the actual version of the rules. That would need to happen automatically if the referee stops the games and ask the attacker.

YES BUT IN PAST YOU SAID THAT THE REF MUST STOP THE GAME AND IF THE ATTACKER SAYS ADVANTAGE THEN THE DEFENDER CAN DO AN EXTRA BLOCK. I INSIST. NO STOP NO BLOCK.

3. No player ever can ask for the Head Referee, the Head Referee only has to be called, if the referee isn't sure what to decide. Here the problem in my opinion is that the referees again don't have enough self-confidence to take a decision. The player who thinks he is in a disadvantage continues talking till most referees are happy, if the head referee is coming to take a decision instead of solving the situation on his own by telling the player he should be quiet.

THE REFEREES' PROBLEM IS NOT THE SELF CONFIDENCE. OR THEY DON'T KNOW THE RULES OR THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE ENEMIES. SO THEY GIVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO HEAD REF.

4. I can understand the situation of extra time, but honestly I can't understand why the discussion only happens, if the game is close to the end. Do you think it is good to split the game finally into "The End" and "The Rest". There needs to be taken a decision, do we want to play Brutto or Netto time. It is nowhere written down, that the referee has to give some extra-time. If the referee thinks it happened on purpose he has to give the player a card, the rules are protecting no other decision (i don't say it is right or wrong).

COME ON HEINZ. IN THE END OF MATCH IN ALL SPORTS THE PLAYERS HAVE THIS BEHAVIOUR. A CARD IS NOT STRONG BAN. THE EXTRA TIME IS THE RIGHT BAN. THE RULES ARE VERY CLEAR. THE REF IS THE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TIME FINISH OF MATCH.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:17 pm

Kostas, at the moment when the referee asks the player if he wants free-kick or advantage, he automatically stops the game in my opinion. If the game stops the defender has the right to make the last block, if he didn't do that before the referee "stopped" the game.

If the referee didn't say anything it is ok, what Vasco did, if the referee said free-kick or advantage, it is not ok for me. If he says only free-kick it is ok too what Vasco did.

According on the rules the referee only has to make the announcement free-kick, that's not a question, so he doesn't need to stop the game, if he only makes the announcement.

As I said, I know that the situation is hectic at the end of the game, but only in those sports where the time continues running, in ice hockey for an example, the end of the game is normal as the rest of the game, because the time doesn't continue, in those sports time-wasting isn't a problem. The question is, if we want that, because it always will cause problems in the scheduling, because we play many games in the same time.
If you let the referee take the decision of extra time, you won't solve the problem, because then they are free to choose doing it, so some will do it and others won't.

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:38 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Kostas, at the moment when the referee asks the player if he wants free-kick or advantage, he automatically stops the game in my opinion. If the game stops the defender has the right to make the last block, if he didn't do that before the referee "stopped" the game.

THE GAME DIDN'T STOP AUTOMATICALLY EVERY TIME WHEN REF SPEAK. ONLY IF HE SAYS "STOP"
BUT IF THE REF STOP THE GAME FOR FREEKICK THE DEFENDER HAS NOT EXTRA BLOCK. IT IS LIKE BACK. NO EXTRA BLOCK IF I ASK BACK. YOU ARE WRONG. WE SAID MILLION TIMES IN PAST. ALL EUROPE KNOW THIS RULE.

If the referee didn't say anything it is ok, what Vasco did, if the referee said free-kick or advantage, it is not ok for me. If he says only free-kick it is ok too what Vasco did.

COME ON. THE REF SPEAK AND THE GAME CONTINUE. MANY TIMES BEFORE A SHOOT I ASK BY GOALKEEPER "INSIDE" IF HE TOUCH THE LINE. I DIDN'T EVER STOP THE SHOOT.

According on the rules the referee only has to make the announcement free-kick, that's not a question, so he doesn't need to stop the game, if he only makes the announcement.

THE SAME ANNOUNCEMENT IS FREEKICK OR ANDVANTAGE

As I said, I know that the situation is hectic at the end of the game, but only in those sports where the time continues running, in ice hockey for an example, the end of the game is normal as the rest of the game, because the time doesn't continue, in those sports time-wasting isn't a problem. The question is, if we want that, because it always will cause problems in the scheduling, because we play many games in the same time.
If you let the referee take the decision of extra time, you won't solve the problem, because then they are free to choose doing it, so some will do it and others won't.

WHEN I AM REF I INFORM THE PLAYERS IF WE HAVE EXTRA TIME. I DON'T CARE FOR THE OTHERS. I AM REF AND I WANT TO HELP THE GAME. IF A PLAYER WASTE TIME I GAVE BACK THE TIME. IT IS SO SIMPLE SO EASY SO FAIR. I THINK THAT I SOLVE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE WHEN I AM REF THE PLAYERS KNOW THAT I WILL BAN HIS UNFAIR BEHAVIOUR WITH FAIR WAY. BACK IN LAST SECONDS ON MOVING BALL. NO FREE KICK. BACK AND FIVE SECONDS EXTRA. THE FAIR PLAYERS LOVE ME AS REF THE OTHERS HATE ME.
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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:00 pm

That's the reason that players always discuss about such situations.
They have all the same opinion like you.

Your self-confidence is never ending!? Laughing

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  mikeburns on Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:01 pm

Kostas,

You should think about your own unfair behaviours of the past before promoting yourself as the fairest, most honest player on the planet!

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Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Post  kechris on Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:28 am

UNFAIR BEHAVIOUR WAS YOUR BLACKMAIL ASKING MONEY BY ME FOR YOUR SILENCE WHEN YOU TOOK THE CHAIR IN DISCIPLINARY COUNCIL.
I POSTED THEN. IF YOU FORGOT IT I CAN POST IT AGAIN.
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