World Cup in Manchester

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World Cup in Manchester

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:59 pm

Again we've passed a World Cup.
I am curious to know your personal opinion of the event.
What was good? What was bad? What was better than the years before and what was worse?

Looking forward to your replies...

Marcus
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Admin on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:54 pm

I was not there so I can not really say something very good but as according to the pictures I saw, the hall was much too small and from what I heard, there was almost a delay of 4 hours on saturday, which means there is no improvement at all about respecting the schedules...

I also can't understand how the FISTF Board is unable to make a draw that should be made as according to the rules. 2 players from the same country (and even from the same club) in the same group could never happen in a world cup...

Just because I didn't want to be nervous and angry, I thought it was better to stay at home. I made the right choice Razz
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:42 pm

The room was obviously far too small for the event. Two columns in the middle made it worse. And the fact that a second room on anoher level had been needed to hold all the pitches needed, destroyed the atmosphere.
The name of the venue sounds gut, but it was absolutely unsuitable for a World Cup and the whole organzizing team should have known this in advance...!

UNprofessional...!
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  the dwarf on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:36 pm

fistf WORST CUP - ever !! Mad
nice promotion BUT zero organization

i hope the next world cup will be organized by someone with at least a bit of know how ...

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Corydoras seracin on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm

Friday night Dinner was a complete flop.......... paid €25 for 2 potato wedges & 2 pieces of bread......

Saturday timings where a complete disaster...... 3 sessions of open, then 3 sessions of veterans etc. etc. I never been to a tournament orginised like this before. The pitches where very close to each other & space was very limited.

Sunday was much of the same........

If I'm not mistaken, it was interesting to see that most of the games, if not all, where refereed by players from different categories.

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Thossa on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:24 am

Dear all,

as former BoD-Member it is always difficult to give a comment as you all perfectly will know. People know me as straightforward and in the past months I kept calm in FISTF matters.
But now
Contemporary, I want to unveil:
I remember Björn Kegenbein saying: "his is my worst World Cup ever".
I replied to him: "Okay, but you was not part of Birmingham 2002".

After all I was witness of the last WC´s (except of Palermo 2011)
so here is my personal ranking:
1.) Bologna 2004
2.) Dortmund 2006
3.) Malta 2003
4.) Rain 2010
5.) Rotterdam 2009
6.) Tournai 2005
7.) Les Herbiers 2007
8.) Vienna 2008
9.) Manchester 2012
10.) Birmingham 2002

Let´s hope for the best for 2013, wherever it will be.
Sorry, if I snouch somebody, but this is just my point of view. Honestly!
Yours
Thossa Büsing

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:48 am

Corydoras seracin wrote:Friday night Dinner was a complete flop.......... paid €25 for 2 potato wedges & 2 pieces of bread......

Well, at least you got SOMETHING your your money. I've heard of people who skipped the starters and waited for the main course. It was just too late that there won't be any... Evil or Very Mad
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Thossa on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:53 am

Marcus Tilgner wrote:
Corydoras seracin wrote:Friday night Dinner was a complete flop.......... paid €25 for 2 potato wedges & 2 pieces of bread......

Well, at least you got SOMETHING your your money. I've heard of people who skipped the starters and waited for the main course. It was just too late that there won't be any... Evil or Very Mad

That was all Collins matter, but he is already waiting for the keyboard warriors on this matter. But not here I guess ;-) But he is not guilty so far Rolling Eyes
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:56 am

A ranking of the last World Cups is a nice idea.
Isn't it possible to have this sort of question with clickable answers here in the forum?
edit: just opened a new topic with a poll...

In my personal ranking I would skip Dortmund and Rain, because I was too much involved in the organisation.

And for me Vienna was surely better than Les Herbiers. They used the same irregular tables like in Manchester and that is a no-go for a World Cup...!
Along some good asects, Palermo had many weak points as well. They were really lucky that they had only a small amount of participants, otherwise they would have blown up their venue as well...



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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:06 pm

Hi to all,
i wasn't at the World Cup too, but I talked with 2 of our players who have been there.

Before the World Cup people were very positive because the preparations seem to run well and everything looked professional.
So I think it is a real desaster to show the people the total different picture at the World Cup then, only by taking some unacceptable decision done by the board (or a person of the board).

1. The qualification guidelines are crap and were not respected by the FISTF Board. There were more than 5 players from the same country playing a category.

2. Again there were taken all subs to let play everybody. I can remember people saying the World Cup must be something special we need smaller numbers, now numbers are bigger than when the "old" board was working and there happened absolutely no innovation.

3. Everybody thought that will be a huge event for subbuteo and the medias. What I heard the room was so small that even the people from media disturbed the players actively to play. A World Cup for media with 4 hours delay is a disaster too. People from media who want to plan their arrival to see the final for an example would be very disappointed if they only can see a quarter final because of a huge delay.

4. Telling people that they can enter the venue at 7 or 8 am and then let them wait half an hour outside the venue shouldn't happen too.

5. How can the board decide to let the substitutes referee on saturday without informing the associations about it? Did the organizer ever play a tournament to know how it must be to wait after 3 or 4 games in row 3 or 4 hours to play an important knock-out game?

6. There were again some illegal goalkeepers and figures used at the World Cup.

7. Playing in 2 rooms don't need to be commented. I think, it speaks for the wrong planning.

As a conclusion I only can say that it doesn't seem to be a better World Cup only because the majority of the board is there.
Many of the claims against the "old" board didn't change in the last 3 years, I'm honestly sorry about that.

Heinz

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:30 pm

Well said, Heinz.
Often enough we don't share the same opinion, but this time I agree in every single point.
For me your conclusion is obviously correct.
And as a player I can underline the reports of hte Austrian guys: I was absolutely disappointed...!
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Thossa on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:38 pm

BTW. What about Finland?

Until 2010 the former BoD was in a good relation with the finnish boys. Okay, somebody from outer space destroyd it at a record time (FISdF), but nobody tried to repaired the contacts so far (it seems). What a pity!
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  von K. on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:59 pm

These three topics from the english british forum give some idea on how professional it all was.

http://www.subbuteoplayersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11116

http://www.subbuteoplayersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11039

http://www.subbuteoplayersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11141

My favourite is the one with Alan Collins asking for people to help just 2 months before the tournament. I'm not surprised, but in a bigger happening in any part time hobby that should be taken seriously, the amount of volunteering (and paid) personnel surely has to be known before the happening is decided. It seems England was somehow a perfect place for it, and FISTF was supposed to be the organiser (ESTFA not to be blamed), but the wise men of FISTF forgot to ask who will do the work.

I wasn't there, so not complaining. I enjoy the reports with some of the fine scotch. Just sorry for the participants and the few guys who did all the work (like Gary).

The has not been any discussion about these things in the italian forum (that I've seen). I don't understand why (well, I do...). Haven't seen any real discussion about the World Cup in the FISTF forum, either. It sadly (regarding the activity) seems that this is still the most active international forum.

Reading the comments about the World Cup, it sadly seems that FISTF downhill is getting worse. If this is the World Cup FISTF gives people as the organiser, then it really speaks volumes about FISTF and some of the people running it.

Reading these things must make people in more distant (and not so good) countries wonder, why they should bother travelling to the World Cup.

Sad.

p.s. Corydoras Seracin and others who didn't get a good dinner, should ask for a full refund from the organisers.

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  von K. on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:25 am

Thossa wrote:BTW. What about Finland?

Until 2010 the former BoD was in a good relation with the finnish boys. Okay, somebody from outer space destroyd it at a record time (FISdF), but nobody tried to repaired the contacts so far (it seems). What a pity!

Hi Thossa!

You are correct that there has never been any apology or anything from FISTF regarding the events that have been discussed more than enough here, despite our association asking for explanation (to my knowledge we have asked directly from Garnier). I was asked by Luís to participate in some work for FISTF, but I declined. I have better things to do with my time, than to spend it for a federation which doesn't respect its own rules (Luís also misguidedly thought Garnier was President according to the Statutes). And the least I expect is an apology for our association (the Madridgate with Garnier's phone(y) votes). So for me the interest has flown out the window along with the respect for FISTF. I'm just happy to play in our circles, and if the economy and schedules (for a team) allow, visit some tournament in Europe.

By the way, I wonder, Thossa, if SdF also after this World Cup says the same as before it. He wrote (from memory, not straight quote) in the italian forum that anything is better than von K. and Büsing being in FISTF (in a conversation not related to us in any way). I have to agree with him, though. It's better just to enjoy the circus with a glass of wine.

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Admin on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:28 pm

I don't have much to say about all this. I just see the mentality of the majority of players is really bad. As long as they have tournaments and theyc an win trophies, they don't care if the game is run by idiots and cheaters. We all know the real reason why the world cup was moved to Manchester. Paul Lamond was ready to give a big amount of money to have the world cup in England... to help to boost the sales of the new subbuteo products. Laurent Garnier was aware of it and took the money to organize the event. I believe that FISTF is taking the wrong direction because instead of having a disciplinary council, the should have a "council of ethics". In no other world association, such a case of "conflict of interest" would be allowed. In any other association, Laurent Garnier would have been fired for such a behavior. But that's life and as long as people don't care about the cheating and the bad behavior of the Board members, things will never change. People like Thossa, Vesa, Janus, Marcus, Heinz or myself are just a minority... During the world cup, on the belgian forum, I wrote people should be ashamed to play such a tournament and the only replies I had were "enjoy the good results of the Belgians and don't put attention about the rest"... What a shame. After all I read on the english forum, I don't think there will be many players in the UK thanks to the world cup. And the behavior of the Italians is very similar. As long as they win titles, they don't care about the rest... Some comments were even surprising, looking they said "OK, we din't win as much as expected but that's life"...

At the end, what can we do? Almost nothing. I used to organize several tournaments a year (2 Satellites, 1 Challenger, 1 Future) and I just decided I won't organize FISTF tournaments anymore "as a sign of protest" but who cares about it? I believe nobody cares. I jut concentrate on WASPA, even if many people here in Belgium think WASPA is shit because "it's not for the top players" but I don't care about them... Most of those who criticize are just players who have never done anything "for the game". We have to be aware that many subbuteo players are people who failed to become good football players and who have a chance to win trophies by flicking little plastic men. Sad reality...
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Thossa on Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:52 am

von K. wrote: By the way, I wonder, Thossa, if SdF also after this World Cup says the same as before it. He wrote (from memory, not straight quote) in the italian forum that anything is better than von K. and Büsing being in FISTF (in a conversation not related to us in any way).

If this is so, and I fear it will be Wink I am very amused about it... and delighted as well.
FISdF can be really a lucky man, because his dreams will finally come true lol!

Ya know what I mean I love you
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  von K. on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:16 pm

Thossa wrote:
von K. wrote: By the way, I wonder, Thossa, if SdF also after this World Cup says the same as before it. He wrote (from memory, not straight quote) in the italian forum that anything is better than von K. and Büsing being in FISTF (in a conversation not related to us in any way).

If this is so, and I fear it will be Wink I am very amused about it... and delighted as well.
FISdF can be really a lucky man, because his dreams will finally come true lol!

Ya know what I mean I love you

Ich kann nur sagen... Prost!

flower

(I have to add that it's quite delightful to be such a small and unimportant part of the scene, but still remain (forever, I guess) under the skin of such a big TF personality. It speaks volumes of the state and future of TF.)

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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:07 pm

Playing the Major in Mattersburg I had the opportunity to speak to some more participants from Manchester to collect opinions. Until then I thought that the only good thing about the World Cup in Manchester was THE CARPET...
Bad somebody else made a good point by stating, that there were ENOUGH PARKING PLACES...

Anything more to add?
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Re: World Cup in Manchester

Post  Admin on Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:19 pm

Another good point: if you wanted to buy SUBBUTEO material, it was no problem because from what I heard almost nobody bought anything, lol.
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