New changes in the FISTF Board

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  maxischn on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:35 pm

what would happen if fred disagrees and finally resigns? just another nomination by the president and nothing more would change.... so it's better to have Fred on this positions we all can be sure that it is done well and without any personal advantage
avatar
maxischn
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 117
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Vienna

View user profile http://www.royal78.com

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  von K. on Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:52 am

Even though I couldn't do the same as Fred, I understand his choice. I also understand Kostas' view. It's a matter of perspective, and there is not only one correct one.

However, I think we can all sleep better when Fred is the one who knows what happens with the finances. Everything will be kept in order, and can be checked when the time comes. This can not be underestimated, Kostas.

It's not up to Fred to make things right. It's up to the whole BoD and the members.

kechris wrote:
When a member resign then the person who was candidate for the SAME position must replace him. No other person who is not candidate.

If this would be correct, it would make an interesting scenario regarding the President... farao But I'd rather see new elections by the BoD than the losing candidates as new BoD members. It would also create more problems, because of the nationalities of the losing candidates.

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:33 pm

sorry my friends but i understand everything very well.
A simple question:
WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT? THE FINANCE OR TABLE SOCCER?
I INSIST. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS THE GAME.
I DON'T CARE AND PLAY FOR MONEY.
I want clear rules, well organised tournaments and more more more new players.
Why you believe that your view is better?
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Thossa on Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:33 am

Kostas, I have an idea about what you mean, but today all things are still very complicated. That´s a fact we have to accept.

If some people like it or not, we should be glad about the fact, finally somebody was ready to take over the responsibility to lead FISTF as president and we have to accept the fact neither Luís nor Fred wanted to be president at interim (or somebody else).

The german position is very clear. We are looking for new elections, but we don´t want to force it. The whole new FISTF BoD need a mandate as a token of trust. Than they can work in a hopefully proper way.

I can understand why Laurent Garnier don´t like this. It is because of his performance over the last ten years as "invisible BoD-member". Just ask honoured people like Oli Pére about what I mean...
If he fears, someone could be a better candidate as FISTF president, he is not in the wrong box...

I also respect the position of Luís Horta, when he "ask for a new chance". I trust in him as a good worker for FISTF like Fred.

Both are far away from being suspect as "dreamer" like we had people in the BoD who only was very full of themselves.

FISTF lost almost two years of developement in the right way by "dreamers". More as sad, those "dreamers" divided FISTF more as they helped (even when they said it was for the good of the game/sport).

In my opinion FISTF needs now immediatly:
- transparency regarding the money
- openess of the BoD to the community
that leads to:
- common honesty
- constructive activity

The show must be over for dazzler. We don´t need people who blame others, we need people who are looking positive into the future. I read a posting in an other forum where a “dreamer” is still thinking about an impossible FISTF BoD composed out of Coppenolle, De Francesco & Capponi.

We don´t need this, we don´t need fire-raisers at all, we need peace now. Nothing else.

Let´s give this "constructed" FISTF-BoD time to do a job, if they want some months until Spring 2012.

We lost already so much time. One year more or less don´t really count. But hopefully some strange things will repair very soon, like the 5-0 rule or some other jokes with the rankings, etc.
avatar
Thossa
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 627
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 55
Location : Far beyond

View user profile http://www.dstfb.de

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  von K. on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:13 am

kechris wrote:sorry my friends but i understand everything very well.
A simple question:
WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT? THE FINANCE OR TABLE SOCCER?
I INSIST. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS THE GAME.
I DON'T CARE AND PLAY FOR MONEY.
I want clear rules, well organised tournaments and more more more new players.
Why you believe that your view is better?

It's not finance against table soccer, Kostas. It's not black and white. It's not the Bush regime style "you're with us or against us". I wish you don't forget that there are countless shades of grey, which makes life beutiful. The beauty of grey ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU4wDMYbIps ).

The situation of the BoD and people in it can be seen from many different perspectives. There are more than one perspective with seamless logical argumentation.

I repeat, Kostas. The problem with the statutes not being followed is not for Fred to blame. It's a matter for the members to stop.

Regarding the statutes, Thossa, I'm surprised if you would accept something that is against it. The statutes are worthless the minute members accept doing things against them. And after that it's much much harder for anyone to keep hold of any strings in FISTF.

Going against the statutes is far more serious than wasting 500 euros for a cancelled meeting etc.

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Thossa on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:21 am

von K. wrote:Regarding the statutes, Thossa, I'm surprised if you would accept something that is against it. The statutes are worthless the minute members accept doing things against them. And after that it's much much harder for anyone to keep hold of any strings in FISTF.

Hey Vesa, I do not accept something against the statutes, of course not. I only wanted to point out it is not necessary to force things without need at the moment, even when I do not see any alternative.
avatar
Thossa
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 627
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 55
Location : Far beyond

View user profile http://www.dstfb.de

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  von K. on Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Thossa wrote:
von K. wrote:Regarding the statutes, Thossa, I'm surprised if you would accept something that is against it. The statutes are worthless the minute members accept doing things against them. And after that it's much much harder for anyone to keep hold of any strings in FISTF.

Hey Vesa, I do not accept something against the statutes, of course not. I only wanted to point out it is not necessary to force things without need at the moment, even when I do not see any alternative.

Ok, Thossa. Now I understand your point.

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:21 am

Dears
All of my friends and all of my enemies agree that my ideas are many times very strange.
Many times my teammates ask by me "leave us to make wrongs"
In my mind and in front of my eyes i can dream the future. And unfortunately i have right because people select the "cool" way. And the problems which created by cool ways want strange solutions.

Many times in past i wrote "the solutions are simple but the decisions difficult". I will use one more time my lovely slogan.

Which are the problems of table soccer? The economy? no. The BoD? no. The EGM? NO of course.
The real problem is the age. The players are every year are older and the newcomers are ex players.
Where is the young players?

Why we haven't new and young players? because no one the last years took decisions for this direction.
The rules are not simple and clear. Why? because none use his mind to help the rules but many producers use their minds to fuck table soccer for profit. Do you remeber FISTF sport figures? Do you remember toccer teams? All the players use illegal ungly unrealistic goalkeepers. I saw toccer keeper for first time in 1994 and i was hearing for 17 years by BoD members for a new style keeper like classic subbuteo.
I bored to hear for the fool unrealistic rule for spare keeper but we continue playing with the same rule.
After 18 years in international tournaments i understand that the offside rule is different in every country !!! The same for back and freekick. In my club we have many newcomers who asked every moment for rules. And many times the players with a lot of experience have different opinion.

What is your opinion for tournaments?
After many years we follow the same system. Groups of 3 with "strange" results. Players over 40 years old who select veteran category. But they don't feel as veterans because they play in both categories, open and veteran. They look for a second opportunity to have a success.
Why we called these tournaments international? In more of 50 tournaments taking place without foreign players or only the proffecionals who travel because their team pay their tickets.
Who spent mind and time to find why portugal, great britain, holland , france, scandinavia are 90% death federations?
Who made a realistic but dynamic plan to reborn the table soccer? NONE. Only discussions discussions discussions.
I told last year to my close friend Vlassopoulos that his son who is a great talent and now 12 years old that he will not ever play in open category. Because FISTF and more federations will die the next years because the BoD members care only for chairs and money and they use their power with wrong way.
I cann't believe that i am the only person in world who i can see the mistakes and bad future. Maybe i am the only who i am not afraid to speak for those.
If you think that my ideas and my way are wrong we will wait few years to see the result. I hope for my wrong because i love table soccer but hope is not enough in this occasion.

Good night my friends.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:19 pm

kechris wrote:Dears
All of my friends and all of my enemies agree that my ideas are many times very strange.
Many times my teammates ask by me "leave us to make wrongs"
In my mind and in front of my eyes i can dream the future. And unfortunately i have right because people select the "cool" way. And the problems which created by cool ways want strange solutions.

Many times in past i wrote "the solutions are simple but the decisions difficult". I will use one more time my lovely slogan.

Which are the problems of table soccer? The economy? no. The BoD? no. The EGM? NO of course.
The real problem is the age. The players are every year are older and the newcomers are ex players.
Where is the young players?

Why we haven't new and young players? because no one the last years took decisions for this direction.
The rules are not simple and clear. Why? because none use his mind to help the rules but many producers use their minds to fuck table soccer for profit. Do you remeber FISTF sport figures? Do you remember toccer teams? All the players use illegal ungly unrealistic goalkeepers. I saw toccer keeper for first time in 1994 and i was hearing for 17 years by BoD members for a new style keeper like classic subbuteo.
I bored to hear for the fool unrealistic rule for spare keeper but we continue playing with the same rule.
After 18 years in international tournaments i understand that the offside rule is different in every country !!! The same for back and freekick. In my club we have many newcomers who asked every moment for rules. And many times the players with a lot of experience have different opinion.

What is your opinion for tournaments?
After many years we follow the same system. Groups of 3 with "strange" results. Players over 40 years old who select veteran category. But they don't feel as veterans because they play in both categories, open and veteran. They look for a second opportunity to have a success.
Why we called these tournaments international? In more of 50 tournaments taking place without foreign players or only the proffecionals who travel because their team pay their tickets.
Who spent mind and time to find why portugal, great britain, holland , france, scandinavia are 90% death federations?
Who made a realistic but dynamic plan to reborn the table soccer? NONE. Only discussions discussions discussions.
I told last year to my close friend Vlassopoulos that his son who is a great talent and now 12 years old that he will not ever play in open category. Because FISTF and more federations will die the next years because the BoD members care only for chairs and money and they use their power with wrong way.
I cann't believe that i am the only person in world who i can see the mistakes and bad future. Maybe i am the only who i am not afraid to speak for those.
If you think that my ideas and my way are wrong we will wait few years to see the result. I hope for my wrong because i love table soccer but hope is not enough in this occasion.

Good night my friends.

Dear Kostas, thank you for summing up what we are lacking of.
Reading your lines make me feel blue. You are totally right for
- youth development
- rules
- some tournament structures

I don't follow your opinion about "groups of 3" because we already have a lot of tournaments where groups of 4 are already used.

And in general I don't follow your melancholy. I think we have to split the discussion into two topics:
1. What has to be done ?
2. What choices do we have ?

Regarding 1. I agree with you that we only discussed and discussed but almost nothing happened.
Regarding 2. I must admit that we don't have any choice because we are really lacking of professionals and money !
A few years ago I already said FISTF needs a professional marketing manager (paid by FISTF) who cares about structures (incl. tournaments), processes and sponsors. In the first year he has to be paid by FISTF and as of the second year he has to be paid by himself.
I am convinced we don't only need good faith but really professional business structures. That would include a strategy on how to develop and it would also include a practicable way on how to consolidate "hobby" and "sports".

Our "professionals" (e.g. producers) care at first about their own interest. I don't criticise it because they are trying to optimise their own profit. That's reasonable. I would do the same if I would be a business man. So FISTF needs a professional business man working for FISTF. And in order to optimise profit for FISTF he has to develop structures, processes and sponsors. I am convinced this would work. But to be left with one question: where do we get the money from for the first year ?
avatar
Janus_Gersie
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 331
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Frankfurt area

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:46 am

Hi Janus.
I like your last post.
Ex posts gave a bad "taste". I thought that another Janus Gersie wrote them.
So:
For your first question and answer
1. What has to be done ?
Regarding 1. I agree with you that we only discussed and discussed but almost nothing happened.

My opinion is to stop talking. To start acts. As statutes want. IMMEDIATELY ELECTIONS. Democracy means elections. We haven't elected BoD.

And after follows your second question.
2. What choices do we have ?

I am against profecional managers. Who will select them? I prefer to vote for amateur managers among table soccer players. I hate profesionals in a hobby. I believe in love no in money.
If more of us we didn't use profesionals manages to select our wife and for organising our homes why we need profesionals for our hobby?
Mr Capponi is a profesional but he retired two or three times in three years without success.
Catania was profesional. Where is now?
SDF has a big company but he has the same end with the others. No success two times resigned.

Do you want to continue?
why we fail as table soccer community?
Because the ex BoD with Vincent and Heinz did first the same mistakes. They select wrong partners with wrong way. They spent their time in political games and they forgot the game.

And my last question. Maybe you know the answer better than me.
Marcus Tilgner is profesional?
Why and how he managed to organise a good club and good tournament?
Because he took or spent money or because he spent love and time?
Do you think that there is one at least Marcus Tilgner in every country?
In Belgium. Who is behind Stembert success?
In Italy. Who is behind Stela Artois?
In Austria. Who is behind Mattesburg?

Thanks.
Good night my friend Janus. I wait for your answer.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  von K. on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:10 am

kechris wrote:
1. What has to be done ?
Regarding 1. I agree with you that we only discussed and discussed but almost nothing happened.

My opinion is to stop talking. To start acts. As statutes want. IMMEDIATELY ELECTIONS. Democracy means elections. We haven't elected BoD.

I don't see what changes with this. We have had elections 2 times in 2 years. Elections promise nothing that you expect. They are needed to follow the statutes, but they are not the answer to any of those problems.

Why? Because if wrong people are selected, and the procedures are making it possible for the BoD to act disregarding all ideas and comments from anyone else, then nothing will happen. Whether we discuss or not, has no meaning in that.

But after (if) we get good people in the BoD, what should they do, if there is no discussion? If you make decisions which have no grounds in any discussion or development procedure (usually means discussion), the decisions are bound to be poor or and not considering many angles (solutions are not always as simple as they appear).

The discussion is needed to make the correct decisions. As you also have said (I think you have), there is no time to make wrong decisions.

But how would you change the things you mention as problems without any discussion? And how do you know your solutions would work in every country?

It would be nice to see what you would have done to change the age development in FISTF. I mean clear things which were mistakes and what you would have done. And of course there is need for explanation on how these things would have changed everything.

The reasons, I believe, are far more complex than the difficulty of rules (all countries can make simplified rules, or ask for them somewhere, and Subbuteo rules were not so easy when kids played it 30 years ago), table sizes (there are smaller pitches and you can easily adjust the rules to that, also not a problem in the Subbuteo times), the material (kids don't care about that, they play football with oranges and many have played Subbuteo with broken figures). And we must remember that FISTF is the sport federation of this game. Kids rules and modifications by all means, but anyone can do it at their own club (we always teach to our few new players the rules in smaller steps, FISTF is not needed for that).

Why Paul Eyes has such a success in the USA with teenagers? Because of the facilities as teacher, naturally. But more importantly because he is educated to work with kids! Most people in TF are not. And I would definitely not allow my children to go to a hobby where the adults would not necessarily know anything about upbringing (own kids are not nearly enough, it depends on the persons).

This is why I suggested maybe a year ago that FISTF would create, in collaboration with Paul Eyes and other player-educators, a basic tool (a guide) that could be taken to schools to start afternoon activity in them. If the structure would be ready and trustworthy in professional (education and upbringing) sense, the schools would be more interested and it would not be needed for the local players to plan everything themselves. It would be enough to have one player present as the expert (later not even always needed) and one from the school to answer for the educational part. This could also be used for other youth activity premises. Most times the task of creating something interesting for the schools etc. is too big for any one (or two) player. But just being present as the "expert" could be possible for many players, so the burden of the activity would not be on one pair of shoulders (could be a big problem also for parents whose children take part).

But in the end I have to say that I don't see the FISTF activity as anything very positive for children. I (as a person who works also for education among other jobs) would never put my kids into a World Cup (an example) for U-12 or even U-15, because of the negative atmosphere in the tournaments in general, and also because I don't see anything positive in children at their tender ages play for too important things (their psyche has not developed enough, so it can be harmful depending on the personality). So I don't really see why FISTF should be marketing itself for children.

Marketing the game in any of its forms (old, ancient, fistf, finnish, solo, "role playing" etc) for children would be much more important. The game stays alive if any of the forms stay alive. FISTF should also realise that and not be negative about the other rules. For children the most important thing is to enjoy what they are doing for a hobby. At least in TF not even the kids who would train some sport with the aim (many times negative for the overall development of the child, and most often the aim is in fact that of a parent) of becoming professionals, because even the kids know TF will probably never be compared to the big sports.

Many of these things (also the educational emphasis) vary by the country and culture. So any definite way is very difficult to define for the whole world. So to find a very good solution for FISTF (as a global federation) without proper procedure and discussion is in my opinion impossible.

Most things and problems are very hard to see without reflecting on other's thoughts. I have seen in most parts of my life that persons who don't seem aware of many things can make surprising contributions, while the persons who you would expect to know everything better, almost always change some angle in their thinking after discussion with others.

And there are easy ways of making good development work even with people who are not very talented. The same goes for children. They can create magnificent on complicated things beyond their abilities in a big group if a person can guide them to the correct direction and give them tools to find the correct decisions. In this kind of thing they are the ones deciding and developing what they want, an adult only the catalyst and person who makes the procedure possible for the. But without discussion the work of the group of kids would just change into the work of the "alfa-kid" who would decide on everything with his closest friends.

This is why I see nothing wrong with discussion per se. For example this forum has had many discussions that have developed the way people think about many things. How to make the result of a discussion reality is completely different thing. That depends on the people in charge, and as we saw with Olivier's commission, 3 remaining persons in the BoD could block all the decisions the commission had made by discussiong the matters thoroughly from many angles.

We shouldn't bark at the wrong tree.

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:38 am

Maybe you can tell me the benefit I had by playing political games all day long when I was director in FISTF. I don't have something better to do than playing games in a federation without having any benefit. If I would love politic we have enough possibilities here in Austria to get active in a political party, so FISTF is the last thing I need to play political games, maybe you can start to notice that and stop writing such bull****! I think Vincent thinks the same and I don't think that you have any right to write that about us.

You tell us everytime that you are not interested in organizational things, but now you want to explain the organization of FISTF. You don't seem to understand it still after 20 years of existence. The board is responsible to organize the activity on a world scale. Youth development can't happen on that level, it has to happen on national level.

If there aren't enough interested and qualified people in the associations to teach new young players, or teach them the wrong way, FISTF has only the possibility to offer a seminar how to work with young people. If nobody in FISTF can do such a seminar you need externals for doing that which will cost money. If you have the passion for doing that and you have the qualification, you can call the FISTF Board and start travelling all over Europe to let us participate on you knowledge about that topic.
Passion OR Love? That decision never will be taken by a normal-thinking person. It is more than clear that you need both, especially when you want to work with kids. Why do you think countries spent a lot of money (most spent unfortunately not enough) to teach their youth the right way. Working with young people don't end by teaching them how to play. The responsibility goes much wider, you have a social aspect too. Like Vesa wrote, you have to trust to the person who should teach your children. You need to build a relationship to the young player too, it is not enough only to teach the game tablesoccer, it is only a small part how to bind kids on a club.
Read the post of Vesa, he exactly understood the problem, now you maybe can be so kind to give us, who know nothing and don't love table soccer, your expertise how to solve that "problem".

The responsibility of FISTF is to manage it that the associations have the possibility to get new players, the responsibility of FISTF is to manage it that there is a product available the associations can promote. Maybe the responsibility of FISTF is even to get qualified people in each country who can teach tablesoccer with all the other important side-aspects.

We don't need to discuss that I didn't manage that in 4 years that's right, but I never said, that I can manage that in my function with the time I have available in that time. People always will have different views on things, I think we only agree on it that youth needs to have a very high priority in our community. To tell me out of that fact, that I forgot the game is an absolute impertinence.

Marcus is not a professional, because the club is his hobby, but you can ask Marcus here if he would do the work all over Germany for free on his own costs.
You can ask the same question to people of other big countries. For an example Paul Eyes. You can ask him if he would do the same work he is doing in his school also in a school 3000 km away without getting paid at least his expenses. If I would be millionaire I would do it for sure, but how many millionaires do we have in our community?
Finally we even don't need to ask about the money, it would already be enough to ask those people if they could spend the time for that.

If they couldn't spend the time or wouldn't spend the money they don't have passion for tablesoccer?

kechris wrote:
why we fail as table soccer community?
Because the ex BoD with Vincent and Heinz did first the same mistakes. They select wrong partners with wrong way. They spent their time in political games and they forgot the game.

And my last question. Maybe you know the answer better than me.
Marcus Tilgner is profesional?
Why and how he managed to organise a good club and good tournament?
Because he took or spent money or because he spent love and time?
Do you think that there is one at least Marcus Tilgner in every country?
In Belgium. Who is behind Stembert success?
In Italy. Who is behind Stela Artois?
In Austria. Who is behind Mattesburg?

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:02 am

Come on Vesa and Heinz.
I don't know Paul Eyes' work and i cann't do comments about this.
But i know:
90% of table soccer community didn't know Capponi Catania before elected first time.
When you hear first time Koutroumanos name?
I didn't ever hear Coppenole's name as player before elected.

excuse me but if FISTF was YOUR company and you wanted to have profit in future who you will select for head manager?
Elections is democracy way for future. But if we vote persons who can care our targets but no table soccer targets then we will kill table soccer.

p.s love without passion is not real love.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:32 am

There is a small but important mistake in my post.
It shouldn't be love OR passion it should be money OR love/passion.

If FISTF would be a company, please tell me who you would prefer for Marketing for an example?
A worker who knows the business but without any idea of marketing or a marketing specialist who maybe even never worked in the business?
I think you hopefully choose the second one, if you want to be sucessful.
In your opinion the whole FISTF Board must consist of well-known players, but that doesn't mean that FISTF is lead a better way. Do you think the general director of general motors ever was working on the production line in a general motors factory?
The one who is responsible for the production should have worked there, but never the general director.

Please tell me how you want to take a decision about somebody? You said you didn't know Cappoini, Catania and Coppenole before they started to work for FISTF.
Even if you would have known them as a player, please tell me how you could know their skills for being president of FISTF?
You can't know those skills of anybody.

You generalize and say that those who organize clubs in a good way, must be able to do that in FISTF too, sorry, but that shows to me that you have absolutely no idea about the work in FISTF.
A club is something totally different, and the areas of FISTF are much wider than those of a club. You need much more time, you need much more patience and you need a good relationship to many people with other culture.

We need to change our criterias, if we are only happy if there are well-known players in the FISTF Board, we never will make steps forward. I don't need to know somebody, if he tells me that he can help FISTF and he finally really helps FISTF.
I think in most positions in FISTF it even would be better to have people without any relationship to table-soccer. There are only 1 or 2 positions where I wouldn't accept somebody without any knowledge of table-soccer.
You don't need a president who plays actively, you don't need a financial director who plays actively, you don't need a marketing director who plays actively and you don't need a general secretary who plays actively.
Of course in sports department you need a director who knows the game, but the argument a sports director who is not playing a tournament every week-end can't be sports director is only true if he is doing the department on his own (and even then I think it is not a MUST).
If you have people in your team who play together many events every year, it should be enough, if you can trust those people and if they are able to inform the director about the important things.

We must stay positive and open in any direction. We must accept that we won't find the totally right group of people with all required skills in every department in our community, so we have 2 possibilities. Open our horizon and look for people who are not so involved or accept it that FISTF won't work well in some areas of its organization.
At the end for most players/organizers/clubs the sports director is the most important person, so maybe somebody can tell me, why we need known people in all other departments, if most people don't really care about their activities anyway!?

kechris wrote:Come on Vesa and Heinz.
I don't know Paul Eyes' work and i cann't do comments about this.
But i know:
90% of table soccer community didn't know Capponi Catania before elected first time.
When you hear first time Koutroumanos name?
I didn't ever hear Coppenole's name as player before elected.

excuse me but if FISTF was YOUR company and you wanted to have profit in future who you will select for head manager?
Elections is democracy way for future. But if we vote persons who can care our targets but no table soccer targets then we will kill table soccer.

p.s love without passion is not real love.

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:40 am

Heinz please don't try to explain my comments with your way.
I thought that the idea SDF who selected 6 members as all together candidates like a team was very good.
Maybe was illegal idea for statutes but i prefer a BoD with good relationships between them.
In your question for marketing director i prefer a person who loves 100% table soccer because he can show how much amazing hobby is table soccer. We are talking about hobby no clothes no credit cards no furniture no car insurance. Hobby is something for good time and the marketing director can prove every time that table soccer is THE hobby.
The sport director must be a person who can organise the game. Rules equipment tournaments. He must have new fresh clear ideas for instant use.
Club is like car. And FISTF is like truck. Of course driving a truck is more difficult but i prefer a good experienced car driver to drive the truck than a new driver.
And remember this. A truck driver have more power in road than a car driver. The other car drivers respect-afraid a truck so is easier the situation for the good driver !!!
All the examples are pieces of our lifes.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  maxischn on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:49 pm

kechris wrote:Club is like car. And FISTF is like truck. Of course driving a truck is more difficult but i prefer a good experienced car driver to drive the truck than a new driver.

good example - i prefer a truck driver who is experienced and who drove some trucks before rather than a lover of trucks with passion to big trucks, but has never been behind the steering wheel of one....
avatar
maxischn
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 117
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Vienna

View user profile http://www.royal78.com

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:19 am

Good drible Marcus.
But....can you find a truck driver who is not good car driver?
I can find many car driver who cann't drive a truck.

I cann't understand what you support.
Janus spoke for profesional manager with money.
I spoke for manager with experience without money but with love and passion.
What is important for you? Manager who was member in FISTF BoD in past?
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  hönkki on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:21 pm

How about a driver who follows the traffic rules ?

hönkki
Grand Prix Winner
Grand Prix Winner

Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-04-23
Age : 51
Location : Helsinki, Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:12 am

hönkki wrote:How about a driver who follows the traffic rules ?

lol!
avatar
Marcus Tilgner
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 224
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:02 am

Kostas, the question is, if we have somebody in our community who has experience with Marketing and who is ready to work for FISTF. If we don't have somebody then we need an external who has nothing to do with tablesoccer, but it should be out of question that we need a good marketing director instead of a marketing director who maybe loves the game, but isn't able to bring FISTF forward in that area.
If the only needed skill for being FISTF director is love for the hobby, we won't have any success. In every company you have a kind of skill's matrix for the jobs needed in the company and then you look around if you find somebody with the required skills and that person you will employ. First you can look in your company if have somebody internally with the required skills, if you won't find somebody or nobody is ready to take the job internally, you need to employ an external person.
What does it help if he loves Tablesoccer and is able to show it with enthusiasm, when he has no idea how to sell it to media and sponsors, which should be the main work of marketing director.
The priority must be that a marketing director has relationships to medias and potencial sponsors or at least knows a way how to built those contacts for FISTF.
If an external participates on the money he brings, you can be sure, that he will find the right strategy to sell OUR hobby the right way without having ever played it.
The marketing department should be the most important for contacts outside of our community, I fear most people underestimate the importance of that department.
Do you really think a company is interested how enthusiasm you are presenting the product? Their priority is to benefit of a partnership. They are not Mother Theresa and normally they are not ready to spend money without having any benefit out of it. Somebody who is experinced in Marketing knows how to convince a company of their benefit.

Finally all those metaphers don't help us coming forward. Do you want truck drivers or do you want people who can lead FISTF like a company? Please take a decision about that. If you want a mixture we should become more detailed, where we need truck drivers and where we need people with management skills.

kechris wrote:Heinz please don't try to explain my comments with your way.
I thought that the idea SDF who selected 6 members as all together candidates like a team was very good.
Maybe was illegal idea for statutes but i prefer a BoD with good relationships between them.
In your question for marketing director i prefer a person who loves 100% table soccer because he can show how much amazing hobby is table soccer. We are talking about hobby no clothes no credit cards no furniture no car insurance. Hobby is something for good time and the marketing director can prove every time that table soccer is THE hobby.
The sport director must be a person who can organise the game. Rules equipment tournaments. He must have new fresh clear ideas for instant use.
Club is like car. And FISTF is like truck. Of course driving a truck is more difficult but i prefer a good experienced car driver to drive the truck than a new driver.
And remember this. A truck driver have more power in road than a car driver. The other car drivers respect-afraid a truck so is easier the situation for the good driver !!!
All the examples are pieces of our lifes.

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  kechris on Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:27 pm

Υes i don't want Fistf as company.
Because table soccer is not a job.
I feel table soccer as hobby and i want table soccer lovers in FISTF.

I DON'T WANT THE MARKETING DIRECTOR TO LOOK FOR SPONSORS.
I WANT SPONSORS TO LOOK FOR MARKETING DIRECTOR.

This is my dream. Sorry if we have different dream.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New changes in the FISTF Board

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum