Piero Capponi at least resigned

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Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:46 pm

... was published this evening on fistf.info

Before we start to discuss the way forward I would like to know WHY he resigned. Good reasons ? Or just a rushly act ?
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Admin on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:04 pm

The guy is a wrong guy. He has been 3 times in a Board in 2 years and resigned 3 times. he just wanted to be the only person to decide (which is impossible when you are in a Board with De Francesco anyway) and thought he was over the laws. He was always elected based on promises but none of the promises happened. he's just a businessman wnating to make some money and I don't even think he likes table football. I hope this time we are definately rid of this guy who should better start learning english because his final statement was full of mistakes. Very Happy
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Kaitsu on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:46 pm

So what happens next?
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:57 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:
Before we start to discuss the way forward I would like to know WHY he resigned. Good reasons ? Or just a rushly act ?

He mentions that he should have stood by his earlier resignation (he has 4 resignations in 3 boards, in fact) that he announced in Palermo. That time it was not officially announced, so I think a message 2 days after the tournament is not as rushed.

The reasons remain a mystery. The announcement only mentions some "idiots", who don't follow rules (if I understand the google translation correctly...). There is also something about someone wanting to hit him, but I think this was also written in Palermo, and was not the true translation. So it's very difficult to know what really happened without proper original text (it should be published as original spanish, too). And as Piero writes that he is not answering mails etc, it will not become clear, and will just be rumours. Perhaps it would be better to forget the reasons for the resignation, and start from a clear table.

One ridiculous thing in the announcement is that he asks Luís to organise elections in Mons. Why not Garnier? After all it is the job of the general secretary, and in that role Garnier also "stole" (with false information and promises) for example the finnish vote in Madrid. If he could do that then, why is it Luís this time? I'm just curious about the interpretation of the FISTF statutes here...

But now it's time to see who is staying. And after that it's again time to discuss the future of FISTF. I wish that this time it will be serious discussion, but I'm afraid it will not be that. With serious discussion about general lines of FISTF, and with realistic down-to-earth ideas, anything positive could happen. Continuing the way and attitude we have seen, and FISTF will be buried.

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:53 am

This below is a comment by SdF in italian forum. You can use the translator, or ask in case you don't understand. The basic message is that he and Piero have tried to fulfill the dream of making TF something bigger than it has been. He will continue the daily work (ranking, calendar etc) until February. After that, he writes, he will not have anything to with FISTF or FISCT (!). He'll play sometimes, but not organise anymore. And this would be his last message in the forum also.

It would be nice to know what has happened for also SdF to be so upset, and also with FISCT. I also feel sad for him, nevermind his arrogance and our differences. Delusioned by something he has loved for so many years, so sad. I think he made it himself, but it's not the point.

FISTF will have big problems getting out of this grave.

"Peccato davvero ci abbiamo provato ma è davvero impossibile.

Ringrazio Piero per le sue parole e per avere condiviso con me la sua amarezza. Altre volte ero riuscito a fargli fare marcia indietro ma stavolta la delusione e il voltastomaco accumulato negli ultimi mesi era troppo anche per me.

Riuscire a fare disamorare me verso un qualcosa che mi ha accompagnato per tutta la vita pensavo che fosse impossibile ma come si dice mai dire mai.

Abbiamo sognato insieme, sperando che si potesse mettere in moto un progetto che portasse il calcio da tavolo ad essere qualcosa di più di quello che è stato sino ad oggi. Il suo abbandono si porta con se anche il mio dato che ho condiviso con lui idee e progetti.

Ovviamente continuerò per rispetto dei giocatori, a garantire il regolare svolgimento delle competizioni, del calendario e del ranking fino a Febbraio, poi non ne voglio più sapere nulla nè della FISTF e nè della FISCT.

Giocherò quando ne ho voglia ma non spenderò più neppure un attimo per organizzare qualcosa.

Questo è anche il mio ultimo messaggio sul forum.

Saluti a tutti."

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:08 am

I don't know if we should be happy or sad. Happy certainly to see these peple getting out of the community. The way they fired the old Board, later trusted a guy who is in prison now and finally the way they organized fake elections in Madrid has been a total disgrace for the sport. Also, I don't think there was any major improvement to FISTF despite of all the promises. Antonello Rodriquez told me "they put subbuteo back in the stores" but is it related to FISTF? I don't think so.

Sad because I don't see a good future for FISTF. I don't know who will be stupid enough to take over things now that everything is just "not working".

OK, there are good people in FISTF such as Luis, Fred and Freddy but apart from that? Fiding the right people will probably be very complicated.
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Kaitsu on Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:17 am

Ok, let's start with pic for the moment..




I think that getting people with too selfcentered attitudes out of the BoD is turn to right direction, but the main question is that who are the people and what are the actions to unite the players around table football? In the past 6 months there hasn't been that many public speakers in neither forum and even less if all the whining/whiners are left out from the count. At least these active speakers have some extra drive for the sport and forming the leading group for FISTF from these people could be the answer. If they are interested of course..

At the same I was thinking that is the current form of FISTF BoD the best solution or should it be changed a bit in to direction where there's less power for few persons and more wider set of people from different associations to have possibility to have impact in FISTF? This might be hard or impossible to change (at least right away), but we have seen more people writing good posts and arguments than there's room in FISTF BoD in it's current form and now the community can't do much if the BoD doesn't want to listen anyone but themselves.

Just a thought, maybe a bad/stupid one but still a thought..
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  hönkki on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:15 pm

Could someone now remove the bans from SN forum ?

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Kaitsu on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:27 pm

von K. wrote:This below is a comment by SdF in italian forum. You can use the translator, or ask in case you don't understand.

"Peccato davvero ci abbiamo provato ma è davvero impossibile.

Ringrazio Piero per le sue parole e per avere condiviso con me la sua amarezza. Altre volte ero riuscito a fargli fare marcia indietro ma stavolta la delusione e il voltastomaco accumulato negli ultimi mesi era troppo anche per me.

Riuscire a fare disamorare me verso un qualcosa che mi ha accompagnato per tutta la vita pensavo che fosse impossibile ma come si dice mai dire mai.

Abbiamo sognato insieme, sperando che si potesse mettere in moto un progetto che portasse il calcio da tavolo ad essere qualcosa di più di quello che è stato sino ad oggi. Il suo abbandono si porta con se anche il mio dato che ho condiviso con lui idee e progetti.

Ovviamente continuerò per rispetto dei giocatori, a garantire il regolare svolgimento delle competizioni, del calendario e del ranking fino a Febbraio, poi non ne voglio più sapere nulla nè della FISTF e nè della FISCT.

Giocherò quando ne ho voglia ma non spenderò più neppure un attimo per organizzare qualcosa.

Questo è anche il mio ultimo messaggio sul forum.

Saluti a tutti."

Google Translator

Too bad we tried but it is really impossible.

I thank Piero for his words and for sharing with me his bitterness. Other times I got him to back off but this time the disappointment and accumulated sick in the last month was too much even for me.

Disaffect able to make me into something that has stayed with me all my life I thought it was impossible, but as they say never say never.

We dreamed together, hoping that you could set in motion a plan to bring the football table to be something more than what has been until now. His abandonment if my door because I shared with him new ideas and projects.

Of course I will continue to respect the players, to ensure the smooth running of competitions, calendar, and the ranking until February, then I do not want to know anything and neither the nor the FISTF FISCT.

I'll play whenever I want but do not spend even a moment longer to organize something.

This is also my last post on the board.

Greetings to all.
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Kaitsu on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:31 pm

hönkki wrote:Could someone now remove the bans from SN forum ?
I don't think so and why should they? SN is still Piero's and Stefano's owned site+forum so they are incharge of things there. Why FISTF BoD should continue using SN while they now can set up official forum at fistf.info?
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:41 pm

There will be a lot of questions in the next few months.

One of the positive things int he new situation is that Piero Capponi will be able to concentrate on the relaunch of Subbuteo int he shops. It's extremely important and it's positive if Piero is not involved anymore in FISTF just to prevent conflicts of interest.

The big issue is to see who will be working for FISTF. Or should we just have a new association? Or should the Italians just have their own association going (like some of them usually say)?

I fear once again we will have to start many things from scratch again.

I fear the future will not be very bright...
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Janus_Gersie on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:21 pm

It is easy now to blame people. But it makes no sense because it dosn't help. In their point of view they tried best and they admit they failed. We need leadership and the ability to integrate in order to pacify and reunify FISTF regardless names. We need people with a clear mind.

But on the other side they left a ship on heavy sea without taking the responsibility. It is easy to resign but what happens next to FISTF ? They did not think about the future. They just left leaving behind a chaos .... that makes me really feel angry.

I declare that the rest of the existing board (those who are doing the work right now: Freddy, Fred, Luis and even Stefano; did I forget someone ?) has my full support until new elections. Each association should follow and support FISTF.
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:47 pm

Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

Even if I don't agree on a few points of Stefano's work, at least most things are clear for the running season. If the elections really happen in Mons, there should be enough time to prepare the new season I think. The most difficult part will be to find people for the board to satisfy some who only can blame from the gallery.
I'm not sure if elections according on our statutes are enough for some to become part of constructive dialogue.

Heinz

Janus_Gersie wrote:It is easy now to blame people. But it makes no sense because it dosn't help. In their point of view they tried best and they admit they failed. We need leadership and the ability to integrate in order to pacify and reunify FISTF regardless names. We need people with a clear mind.

But on the other side they left a ship on heavy sea without taking the responsibility. It is easy to resign but what happens next to FISTF ? They did not think about the future. They just left leaving behind a chaos .... that makes me really feel angry.

I declare that the rest of the existing board (those who are doing the work right now: Freddy, Fred, Luis and even Stefano; did I forget someone ?) has my full support until new elections. Each association should follow and support FISTF.

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Admin on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:01 pm

I believe the Board took some wrong decisions because their vision was to make "something professional" and the players are not ready for that. Many players think it's ridiculous to be sanctionned because their figures (that they bought months or years ago) are too short (26 or 26,5 mm instead of 27) and they never had any intention to cheat or to get any advantage.

Having a world cup in July is a HUGE mistake! The Italians don't understand it and OK, it's their problem if they can't understand the views of other people, but we need to make clear JULY and AUGUST are really bad periods to host world cups.

I also believe we need to stick to the essential. There were many promises, huge promises to make something huge at the WC and the EC but almost all comments I read about the EC in Slovenia are telling "it was the worst Europa Cup ever". No scoreboards, results never put in the hall, all announcements in Italian (is it an official language or what?), no drink & food available in the hall, poor presentation on friday (with U18 players not allowed to go in!),... Also, all the media coverage seemed to be poor. And there won't be new players or clubs in Slovenia. So why was there a tournament in Slovenia? It's just a way to say "it's not in Italy" and nothing else. It's ridiculous...

So I think we must stick to the basics: easy communication (newsletter, website...), as many tournaments as possible, as many nations involved as possible (in the last 2 years almost all activity outside Europe disappeared apart from Argentina, Brazil and Singapore), easy rules, not too professional attitude, flexibility,...

Some comments said "the community is not ready to take things in a professional way" but the reality is more "many players don't want to be like Italians and just and to have fun."
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:46 pm

Admin wrote:I believe the Board took some wrong decisions because their vision was to make "something professional" and the players are not ready for that. Many players think it's ridiculous to be sanctionned because their figures (that they bought months or years ago) are too short (26 or 26,5 mm instead of 27) and they never had any intention to cheat or to get any advantage.
Sorry, but that's a real problem of rules and not a problem caused by any decision taken by that board! If we want to accept figures with 26 or 26,5 instead of 27 we have to make a rule for that. They only wanted to stick on the rules which they didn't write. It should be clear that the player is responsible for his equipment. I'm sure that many players don't want to cheat, but the solution can't be that the player only has to use the argument that he doesn't know the rules or he never wanted to cheat to get free of any fault.

Admin wrote:
Having a world cup in July is a HUGE mistake! The Italians don't understand it and OK, it's their problem if they can't understand the views of other people, but we need to make clear JULY and AUGUST are really bad periods to host world cups.
That's maybe a problem, but it is also a problem in june and it is also a problem in september for others, so i think there isn't a best date, but there can be a better place to play the WC where many can come easy (doesn't automatically mean in the north of europe).
You want exactly turn the situation for 90° against Italy and the other associations now? What should be the success of doing that?

Admin wrote:
I also believe we need to stick to the essential. There were many promises, huge promises to make something huge at the WC and the EC but almost all comments I read about the EC in Slovenia are telling "it was the worst Europa Cup ever". No scoreboards, results never put in the hall, all announcements in Italian (is it an official language or what?), no drink & food available in the hall, poor presentation on friday (with U18 players not allowed to go in!),... Also, all the media coverage seemed to be poor. And there won't be new players or clubs in Slovenia. So why was there a tournament in Slovenia? It's just a way to say "it's not in Italy" and nothing else. It's ridiculous...
Did it ever happen that after 2 events in a totally new country an association and clubs where built? The idea was not bad to organize it in a totally new country in my opinion. Of course it also could have been hungary or the czech republic for an example, but the idea generally could be overtaken by a new board if the backgroupnd makes it possible.
Where is it written down that results and rounds have to be printed during the event, FISTF even doesn't have a paper where it is written down that scoreboards are needed as far as I know, but maybe such a paper was made by the sports department now.
Maybe the event is bad because of that, but the organization doesn't act against the handbook, so where is the mistake?

Admin wrote:
So I think we must stick to the basics: easy communication (newsletter, website...), as many tournaments as possible, as many nations involved as possible (in the last 2 years almost all activity outside Europe disappeared apart from Argentina, Brazil and Singapore), easy rules, not too professional attitude, flexibility,...
In my opinion the solution never can be to turn back the clock to the situation of january 2010. If you remember, there were some associations who called for an EGM. There were some positive things from the following boards too and those things need to be implemented and maybe need a modification by a new board.

Admin wrote:
Some comments said "the community is not ready to take things in a professional way" but the reality is more "many players don't want to be like Italians and just and to have fun."
I'm not against a better appearence of players and teams, I'm also in favour of it that close to tables or playing areas there shouldn't be a place for alcohol, especially the players should be forced to drink anti alcoholic drinks as long as they are playing or refereeing actively. If they drink a small beer in a break at the bar or outside the venue it shouldn't be a problem, but it shouldn't happen that players drink a small beer during every half-time break of their games and then continue playing.
People have different definitions of fun, the job of FISTF is it to satisfy as many as possible and it won't work without making a step towards the others.

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:22 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

What I've read about the reasons for the resignations and the discussion about them in italian forum, and what we have read reported from Slovenia, it is clear there is chaos, and it is the work of the last couple of boards.

The chaos has developed because people in charge have not realised the biggest problem of all in FISTF. And that is mistrust, lack of unity and nowadays even clear hatred. They concentrated in matters that are for established and calm societies. Not for troubled ones needing to steady the ship first. It's like trying to build a palace on wasteland without making foundations and background properly, and without enough money and workers. It only leads to more problems.

The chaos is that in future tournaments this will probably continue and be even worse. And that can lead to FISTF's death. A federation can not live if people in it hate each other and actively fight about everything even in tournaments.

The chaos also comes from changed rules and regulations, which are not widely accepted, and thus will be reversed, no doubt, in near future.

The chaos also refers to the snubbing of many FISTF members and persons, who have been alienated from FISTF. And the fact that you also doubt if anyone is willing to have a board chair now (ejection seat). Chaos will follow, if the best persons are not interested in the chairs for the common good. And the declining atmosphere means they are probably not.

Most people could do a calendar (without respecting the rules), change handbook according to their own wishes, send results to Freddie for rankings, and trust that Luís does all the communication. Not a lot is needed, if you think everything is running fine now.

Of course, I'm not inside the FISTF circuit, but I see chaos from outside. If the level required is that low for running everything ok, and not fearing chaos, then why do many experts see FIFA in chaos? You clearly expect less, Janus expects more, as do I.

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Janus_Gersie on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:47 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

Heinz, it is not a question of "could". There are enough open points.
Yes, you are right: on a sports view the season maybe will end up basically smooth. But that was not my intention. Maybe "chaos" was the wrong word. They left behind a lot of people feeling insecure. As an example: just have a look on the SN forum. The thread about the the resignation was completely uncommented for about two days. Nobody cares ? NO! They all feel insecure ... isn't that chaos if people in this situation don't feel part of the community in order to discuss fears, possibilities etc ?
That's chaos enough for me
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:42 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:
That's maybe a problem, but it is also a problem in june and it is also a problem in september for others, so i think there isn't a best date, but there can be a better place to play the WC where many can come easy (doesn't automatically mean in the north of europe).
You want exactly turn the situation for 90° against Italy and the other associations now? What should be the success of doing that?

The point is not that it was changed to July. The point is how it was changed and why. Same for the location.

The situation is in fact getting very frightening regarding Italy and others. If you check the italian forum, which also Lorenzo Papini has criticised, you see that the biggest channel for information in the biggest country, is almost brainwashed and lacks, unfortunately, objectivity. The rare comments questioning the resignation of Capponi were confronted with "how dare you? Shouldn't you just thank him and SdF!" -attitude. Scary for FISTF, although I think many people in Italy also think otherwise. They are just not heard and are not in power.

Heinz Eder wrote:
Where is it written down that results and rounds have to be printed during the event, FISTF even doesn't have a paper where it is written down that scoreboards are needed as far as I know, but maybe such a paper was made by the sports department now.
Maybe the event is bad because of that, but the organization doesn't act against the handbook, so where is the mistake?

The mistake is in the promises which Vincent mentioned. And also in demanding more everything from normal GP's and even lesser tournaments, but not being able to do that for the Europa Cup. If nothing huge had been promised and no new regulations about GP's etc announced, it would be ok to skip all the posh stuff at EC. But after being elected on the grand wave of professionalism, clean toilets etc. people are entitled to expect more. I know many people don't do much to help, but if you promise something, and can't deliver even the half of it, then it's just time to apologise and admit the shortcomings. People forgive more than you think, if you admit your fault. But arrogance is not in the same category.

But I also saw Capponi whining about many teams choosing to stay at another (cheaper, I suppose) hotel than the one the organiser booked for the event. And that these teams still had the money to gamble and drink. Did anyone see information that all teams participating must stay at this particular hotel, and were teams asked to confirm this beforehand?

And if you read the rules like a devil's advocate, then you can see that decal teams are illegal. And so was the system in EC, if I've understood correctly. So, should you really ask "where is it written down..."? The same applies for the rule about minimum height.

Heinz Eder wrote:There were some positive things from the following boards too and those things need to be implemented and maybe need a modification by a new board.

I'm more than interested to read your list about these positive things.

Heinz Eder wrote:
People have different definitions of fun, the job of FISTF is it to satisfy as many as possible and it won't work without making a step towards the others.

I agree with this in the general lines. The next board should find out what FISTF members and players want from the game and the activity, and start developing from that.

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:52 pm

Vesa
Why shouldn't i ask where it is written down?
Show me one post where I said that I accept illegal teams, or where I said that the Silver Cup at the EC was valid!

If you say that everything done by the board should be taken back then I'm not sure if you are objective enough. I didn't comment what I think about their activity in general, I only said that there are for sure also poisitive things beyound all the things they tried to change.

How was the date changed? Differently than the change 2006 or 2008?
2006 and 2008 the associations asked for the change, do you think that happened differently in that case?
When the germans asked there were 2 germans on the board, when the austrians asked I was sports director. Doesn't really look well too, right?
You would have 2 possibilities in case of the change of city, to take away the World Cup and look for another organizer or to accept the change. I don't know which decision you would take.

We always talk about promises and dreams given by the board. Every program is based on promises and dreams and then you vote and need to hope that it becomes real. In that case it didn't happen, but why do we blame people for saying their dreams?
We can say NOW they were not able to fullfill the hopes of the community, but to say it was the worst EC only because of the verbalised dreams and promises of Piero is the wrong way I think.

I think we agree on it that there should be score boards at the EC, but if you have to go 1 minute to get food and drinks it shouldn't be a criteria to judge about the organization of the tournament. The only thing which should be said is that the improvement didn't happen as we all hoped after the promises and dreams.
That is the objective evaluation of that EC, if it is the worst or the best can't be said. We had many slow ECs in the past too, so it isn't something irregular. The happenings around the draw should have been considered by the organizers that's something bad, which should be clearified with the organizer in a normal way.

the homepage was ok
the information before the tournament was ok
the offer of hotels was ok, even if some teams seem to choose other hotels
the tables were ok too I guess

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:53 pm

Hi Janus,
out of that point of view you are totally right.

Heinz

Janus_Gersie wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

Heinz, it is not a question of "could". There are enough open points.
Yes, you are right: on a sports view the season maybe will end up basically smooth. But that was not my intention. Maybe "chaos" was the wrong word. They left behind a lot of people feeling insecure. As an example: just have a look on the SN forum. The thread about the the resignation was completely uncommented for about two days. Nobody cares ? NO! They all feel insecure ... isn't that chaos if people in this situation don't feel part of the community in order to discuss fears, possibilities etc ?
That's chaos enough for me

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:26 am

Heinz Eder wrote:Vesa
Why shouldn't i ask where it is written down?
Show me one post where I said that I accept illegal teams, or where I said that the Silver Cup at the EC was valid!

Of course you can ask that, but you can't defend something by saying they didn't act against handbook in that point, when they did and do act against it (and all sorts of rules in FISTF) in so many other points.

Heinz Eder wrote:If you say that everything done by the board should be taken back then I'm not sure if you are objective enough.

Not everything. I meant things that are not widely accepted, never been in discussion and done solely based on a few persons personal idea of the game, and are not argumentated.

And I talk of decisions that are made illegally, that is not according to the rules of FISTF. Like for example the Major of Greece.

Heinz Eder wrote:How was the date changed? Differently than the change 2006 or 2008?
2006 and 2008 the associations asked for the change, do you think that happened differently in that case?

If people who are challengeable or have conflict of interest are deciding it, it is a problem.

And if the reason for change is not in the benefit of FISTF, but for 1 or 2 countries, then it is a problem.

Do you know the real story and reasons for the change? Have you followed the discussion where it really happened? The reasons don't hold water what comes to the benefit of FISTF and the game, which is the only possible referance point for any decision by the Board.

Heinz Eder wrote:When the germans asked there were 2 germans on the board, when the austrians asked I was sports director. Doesn't really look well too, right?

It doesn't if those persons were the ones making the decision. The most important factor is in any case transparency. To open up the procedure, and the reasons, for everyone to see. If the reasons are accepted, ok. If not, it is for everyone to see.

These decisions are part of the FISTF problem today. They live in the memory, and as/if they are not transparent, any rumour will do. The "german board" is part of the problem today, like is the "italian board". People are like that, if they don't get evidence that nothing fishy has happened.

Heinz Eder wrote:You would have 2 possibilities in case of the change of city, to take away the World Cup and look for another organizer or to accept the change. I don't know which decision you would take.

If you talk about the italian WC, there was no need to change the location in the first place. In Rome there was a magnificent sports hall promised to A. Rodriguez by Rome's sports directors (if the hall was free then), and other good locations were available. The change was a decision made by italian FISCT and not FISTF. They thought it was their right to do that change, but if that is the case, the rule has to be changed immediately.

The change of date was made for italian (and maltese I think) juniors to be able to go to the WC better in July.

Heinz Eder wrote:We always talk about promises and dreams given by the board. Every program is based on promises and dreams and then you vote and need to hope that it becomes real. In that case it didn't happen, but why do we blame people for saying their dreams?

You can't promise something if you don't have a big possibility for it to become true. It's called deceiving. Otherwise anyone can promise anything.

The Board rode the professionalism wave and then they themselves couldn't live up to that even a little bit by organising a super EC. An "ok" EC is just not what they have been talking about all the time, and what they are expecting from even the normal GP's now. At the very least it tells of people with lack of connection with reality.

People make mistakes and promise empty promises. But the least they can do is apologise and admit they made false promises. I've seen so many false promises in FISTF before and after Frankfurt, that I don't believe it. And not one apology, or even an explanation with humility. Only excess martyrdom in the homefront of the cosy italian forum.

Heinz Eder wrote:I think we agree on it that there should be score boards at the EC, but if you have to go 1 minute to get food and drinks it shouldn't be a criteria to judge about the organization of the tournament. The only thing which should be said is that the improvement didn't happen as we all hoped after the promises and dreams.

So why were these guys elected? The reason was professionalism, the best tournaments etc. And the thing that really appals me is that in the past years there has been so much criticism about the unprofessianlistic World Cups (and other tournaments) of Rotterdam and Rain, with beer at the tables and schedules that are not kept, and then at this grand event by the critics the beer was there again, but this time it surprisingly was not the fault of the organisers, but the drinkers.

Heinz Eder wrote:That is the objective evaluation of that EC, if it is the worst or the best can't be said. We had many slow ECs in the past too, so it isn't something irregular. The happenings around the draw should have been considered by the organizers that's something bad, which should be clearified with the organizer in a normal way.

Again the same thing. Not a problem, if the organisers have not spent the last years shouting lack of professionalism and poor organisation from the rooftops.

Heinz Eder wrote:the homepage was ok
the information before the tournament was ok
the offer of hotels was ok, even if some teams seem to choose other hotels
the tables were ok too I guess

The information didn't seem ok before the tournament, as far as I read in the Subbuteonews and even here from Marcus (I think, I did). But are these other points enough after all the hype? No, of course not. If you are massacring others for their tournaments, you should be able to make a better one, or take the heat after a failure to do so.

And if the hotel offer was ok, why do I read in the italian forum Capponi speak about it like it was the foreign teams' fault that they didn't book that hotel and then the sponsor (the hotel/casino, I understood) was not happy. Why not take the blame for giving false information to the sponsor in the first place, and why not inform people that they have to stay there, if the hotel is the sponsor, or something? Why blame others again in the brainwashing institute that is the italian forum, as far as international matters are concerned.

For anyone interested in more critical tones about certain people, I recommend the old subbuteo forum in Italy. It gives some idea (objectivity is for anyone to judge, of course) of how some FISTF people love dictating others, love their own ideas even over a clear majority and how they for that reason love the chairs.

It would be nice, Heinz, to see your list of positive things by the last few boards. I mean it really, because I don't remember many of those highlights.

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:30 am

von K. wrote:
Of course you can ask that, but you can't defend something by saying they didn't act against handbook in that point, when they did and do act against it (and all sorts of rules in FISTF) in so many other points.

Don't change my words. Do we want objective critic or do we only want to look for somebody with the general responsibility for everything?
You critizize things that aren't written down anywhere, and your argument is that the board didn't respect other rules too, so why do I say that they respect that one.
Based on that we surely can start a constructive discussion what should be made better in future.

von K. wrote:
Not everything. I meant things that are not widely accepted, never been in discussion and done solely based on a few persons personal idea of the game, and are not argumentated.

And I talk of decisions that are made illegally, that is not according to the rules of FISTF. Like for example the Major of Greece.

The Major of Greece became legal with the last version of the handbook, which was published. So you can change the handbook again now and make it illegal again, if that solves the problem which we had 2 years ago is more than questionable. If we need to vote about every decision even the one about a fifth major, FISTF won't be able to move anymore.
I agree on it that there are decisions which shouldn't be taken by the board or even directors on their own, but the decision about a fifth major shouldn't be the subject matter of a voting between all associations.
What kind of decisions that should be, should be a discussion at a Congress.

von K. wrote:
If people who are challengeable or have conflict of interest are deciding it, it is a problem.

And if the reason for change is not in the benefit of FISTF, but for 1 or 2 countries, then it is a problem.

Do you know the real story and reasons for the change? Have you followed the discussion where it really happened? The reasons don't hold water what comes to the benefit of FISTF and the game, which is the only possible referance point for any decision by the Board.

Who decides about the benefit for FISTF?
Or other question who can judge about the real benefit for FISTF?

von K. wrote:
It doesn't if those persons were the ones making the decision. The most important factor is in any case transparency. To open up the procedure, and the reasons, for everyone to see. If the reasons are accepted, ok. If not, it is for everyone to see.

These decisions are part of the FISTF problem today. They live in the memory, and as/if they are not transparent, any rumour will do. The "german board" is part of the problem today, like is the "italian board". People are like that, if they don't get evidence that nothing fishy has happened.

Then let's hope that you will have 6 members from 6 different countries in the next board. It won't take longer than 5 days before people start saying block A and block B after elections depending on the nationality of the board member.
People who want to complain, always will find a reason to complain. It is not possible to satisfy everybody, if you think like that I want to congratulate you already now to your Burn-Out you would get in a very short time.

von K. wrote:
If you talk about the italian WC, there was no need to change the location in the first place. In Rome there was a magnificent sports hall promised to A. Rodriguez by Rome's sports directors (if the hall was free then), and other good locations were available. The change was a decision made by italian FISCT and not FISTF. They thought it was their right to do that change, but if that is the case, the rule has to be changed immediately.

The change of date was made for italian (and maltese I think) juniors to be able to go to the WC better in July.

You gave the answer to that chapter already in your last sentence of the first part. It was their right to do so, if a FISTF Board thinks different that has to be changed. In a first row the association applies for the World Cup.
I don't think that change was only made for italians and maltesians, when the WC was in september children from other countries had also problems to attend the world cup.
The problem is that school doesn't start at the same time in all countries, but there are holidays in most countries at the end of july. It can be positive when children have holidays it also could be negative, the same way both aspects are possible when the children have school.
The only real disadvantage is that trips like Greece, Spain or Italy are more expensive because of the holidays.

von K. wrote:
You can't promise something if you don't have a big possibility for it to become true. It's called deceiving. Otherwise anyone can promise anything.

The Board rode the professionalism wave and then they themselves couldn't live up to that even a little bit by organising a super EC. An "ok" EC is just not what they have been talking about all the time, and what they are expecting from even the normal GP's now. At the very least it tells of people with lack of connection with reality.

People make mistakes and promise empty promises. But the least they can do is apologise and admit they made false promises. I've seen so many false promises in FISTF before and after Frankfurt, that I don't believe it. And not one apology, or even an explanation with humility. Only excess martyrdom in the homefront of the cosy italian forum.

That view justify to say the EC was one of the worst ever? This sentence implements a comparison with other ECs and not the promises given by anybody.
If you say it was one of the worst, you are not right in my opinion. If you say it was a big disappointment after the promises given, I agree with you.
That comment is at least valid for your next 2 answers below too.

von K. wrote:
So why were these guys elected? The reason was professionalism, the best tournaments etc. And the thing that really appals me is that in the past years there has been so much criticism about the unprofessianlistic World Cups (and other tournaments) of Rotterdam and Rain, with beer at the tables and schedules that are not kept, and then at this grand event by the critics the beer was there again, but this time it surprisingly was not the fault of the organisers, but the drinkers.

Again the same thing. Not a problem, if the organisers have not spent the last years shouting lack of professionalism and poor organisation from the rooftops.

von K. wrote:
The information didn't seem ok before the tournament, as far as I read in the Subbuteonews and even here from Marcus (I think, I did). But are these other points enough after all the hype? No, of course not. If you are massacring others for their tournaments, you should be able to make a better one, or take the heat after a failure to do so.

And if the hotel offer was ok, why do I read in the italian forum Capponi speak about it like it was the foreign teams' fault that they didn't book that hotel and then the sponsor (the hotel/casino, I understood) was not happy. Why not take the blame for giving false information to the sponsor in the first place, and why not inform people that they have to stay there, if the hotel is the sponsor, or something? Why blame others again in the brainwashing institute that is the italian forum, as far as international matters are concerned.

For anyone interested in more critical tones about certain people, I recommend the old subbuteo forum in Italy. It gives some idea (objectivity is for anyone to judge, of course) of how some FISTF people love dictating others, love their own ideas even over a clear majority and how they for that reason love the chairs.

Vesa, please don't mix things here, I think we should be more concrete and detailed, that should be the job of our discussion here. We should inform people, trashing shouldn't take place here.
I talk about the organizer, you talk about the role of competition manager.
Marcus complained about the competition manager (more detailed about the missing information about the system of the tournament)
The organizer isn't responsible for that, the organizer did a good job in my opinion. You hopefully won't make the organizer responsible for it that Piero complained about it that the sponsors were not happy. You hopefully don't make the organizer responsible for it that teams also chose other hotels close to the venue.

Organizer = Marco Pinausi
Competition Manager = FISTF (Stefano and Piero in that case)

von K. wrote:
It would be nice, Heinz, to see your list of positive things by the last few boards. I mean it really, because I don't remember many of those highlights.

in my opinion the following things should be conitnued.

sports newsletter
surveys
circulars
material matters
style guide
newly designed forms
regulary updated homepage

most of those things existed 2 years ago too, but they were developped by the boards of the last 2 years and that should be used in future too.

Before you say now that those activities are not much for 2 years, I want to ask you already now, to show me my post where I mentioned anything about it, how active they have been in my opinion.
I only said some of the things should be continued by a new board, nothing more.

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Some impressions

Post  Lorenzo on Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:34 am

A project I had believed in has come to a miserable end. I should probably shut up and avoid further intromission into FISTF affairs. I will give you some unqualified impressions anyway.

In concern to the Board’s merits and demerits… I dislike the tenor of Stefano’s final statement, and I agree that his aggressiveness and his inability to take criticism have played a role in the mess we are in. I also believe that Piero had a duty to hang at his post until the next elections. After all their criticism, they have probably experienced first-hand how difficult it is to manage a comparatively large federation like FISTF in a person’s free time… and without an adequate Board supporting them.

On this count, I think no Board will accomplish much as far as the war of the buttons keeps raging. People like Garnier and Kutroumanos were only integrated in the board out of electoral reasons. As far as I know, they disappeared shortly thereafter and the Board was reduced to a two-men status. The same is likely to happen at the next elections if the community can’t find a preliminary agreement.

I appreciate Janus’ attitude. What the community now needs is cohesion, and to this goal we need new people taking up the job – at least for a while, till the spirits have cooled down..

This Board had some good ideas. They attempted to enforce the existing rules, both in concern with materials and disciplinary actions. I don’t want to play with half-drunks insulting me at their whim, or to assist at scenes like those in Stembert. And what’s the good of setting obligatory measurements if people feel free to disregard them? If no reform of the goalkeeper is undertaken, we’ll end up with a monster goalie even larger than the actual ones. Finally, the book of cases potentially was a minor breakthrough, however clumsily managed.

On another topic, it is my (faulty?) understanding that the Greek issue was assuaged – if not fully disentangled – by the Board’s strong-willed approach. Not everybody was delighted, and perhaps Koutroumanos was unduly favoured, but the earlier scism situation seems to have been overcome.

As far as the dispute professionalism vs. amatorialism is concerned, I would like a circuit suited to different approaches. Italy won’t accept a return to the old ways. We are not travelling to Mons, Paris, Amsterdam etc. to hang out and meet friends. In order to suit different tastes, the sport dept. might set up an ‘entertainement’ category with simplified rules and tiny requirements for all those who seek a more relaxed experience. The new cat would possibly surrogate the Veterans, which has lost its originary meaning, and even better, it would largely overlap with the WASPA concept.

Finally, I don’t think the Italian forum is being brainwashed. True, it is censored, but for sterner reasons than gathering support.

Quite simply, the herd instinctively follows its shepherds.
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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:19 am

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
Of course you can ask that, but you can't defend something by saying they didn't act against handbook in that point, when they did and do act against it (and all sorts of rules in FISTF) in so many other points.

Don't change my words. Do we want objective critic or do we only want to look for somebody with the general responsibility for everything?
You critizize things that aren't written down anywhere, and your argument is that the board didn't respect other rules too, so why do I say that they respect that one.
Based on that we surely can start a constructive discussion what should be made better in future.

I didn't change your words. I interpreted them.

The rule was not respected, because there is nothing in the rules prohibiting score boards. But if you consider it following the rules when everything that is NOT mentioned in the handbook is NOT done, it leaves out all the extra positive things people do, and expect from tournaments of certain calibre or status.

It also seems strange to defend something that is not mentioned in handbook by the handbook, when many other things that ARE mentioned there are not done accordingly.

Just strange in my opinion, but enough of that. We clearly approach this from different directions.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
Not everything. I meant things that are not widely accepted, never been in discussion and done solely based on a few persons personal idea of the game, and are not argumentated.

And I talk of decisions that are made illegally, that is not according to the rules of FISTF. Like for example the Major of Greece.

The Major of Greece became legal with the last version of the handbook, which was published. So you can change the handbook again now and make it illegal again, if that solves the problem which we had 2 years ago is more than questionable. If we need to vote about every decision even the one about a fifth major, FISTF won't be able to move anymore.
I agree on it that there are decisions which shouldn't be taken by the board or even directors on their own, but the decision about a fifth major shouldn't be the subject matter of a voting between all associations.
What kind of decisions that should be, should be a discussion at a Congress.

If something is prohibited when it is done, a change (by the persons who made the illegal thing) in the rules later doesn't make it legal and acceptable. So the Major of Greece remains illegally given to Athens.

For the rest I agree that it is a matter for Congress, or other, more simple, member body. This was discussed for a long time ago already, but the people in the Board have not done anyt proposal on it. And they havent' written the new statutes as also was promised.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
If people who are challengeable or have conflict of interest are deciding it, it is a problem.

And if the reason for change is not in the benefit of FISTF, but for 1 or 2 countries, then it is a problem.

Do you know the real story and reasons for the change? Have you followed the discussion where it really happened? The reasons don't hold water what comes to the benefit of FISTF and the game, which is the only possible referance point for any decision by the Board.

Who decides about the benefit for FISTF?
Or other question who can judge about the real benefit for FISTF?

The benefit of FISTF should be clear in the statutes and other documents ruling what FISTF is. Decisions must be based on that, and not on 1 or 2 countries juniors or holidays.

I mean that big decisions don't need to be done in Congress, but they need to be done openly, have open discussion about them (at least with members) before deciding, and they have to be done without challengeability of the persons deciding.

If you decide to change the venue and the date of the biggest event in FISTF year, you can't do it behind closed doors, without explaining why, and by doing benefit to your own country and harming other countries, and thus harming also FISTF. It was, as facts show, a decision that harmed FISTF (the smallest number of participants for many years) and it was clear to many members from the start. By asking and discussing the BoD would have had the knowledge. And unofficially they also did have it from forums. But they volunterily and knowingly chose to harm FISTF.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
It doesn't if those persons were the ones making the decision. The most important factor is in any case transparency. To open up the procedure, and the reasons, for everyone to see. If the reasons are accepted, ok. If not, it is for everyone to see.

These decisions are part of the FISTF problem today. They live in the memory, and as/if they are not transparent, any rumour will do. The "german board" is part of the problem today, like is the "italian board". People are like that, if they don't get evidence that nothing fishy has happened.

Then let's hope that you will have 6 members from 6 different countries in the next board. It won't take longer than 5 days before people start saying block A and block B after elections depending on the nationality of the board member.
People who want to complain, always will find a reason to complain. It is not possible to satisfy everybody, if you think like that I want to congratulate you already now to your Burn-Out you would get in a very short time.

Now you clearly misread me. I wrote transparency. This means every reason for controversial decisions have to be open. And they have to be water-proof. For this purpose a wider field of people, from many countries and different "schools/sects", are needed to take part of the groundwork of those decisions. And this means listening to and involving also those who disagree, and finding compromises that no one loves but all can live with.

This way you also have also ready and argumentated answers when critics arrive.

The current state of FISTF needs this, although I think it's ridiculous to need tools usually used in politics, to govern such a small sport/hobby.

I don't have any intention of burn-out because of defending FISTF decisions. If I would be involved in FISTF, it would only be, if a system involving enough people could be created.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
If you talk about the italian WC, there was no need to change the location in the first place. In Rome there was a magnificent sports hall promised to A. Rodriguez by Rome's sports directors (if the hall was free then), and other good locations were available. The change was a decision made by italian FISCT and not FISTF. They thought it was their right to do that change, but if that is the case, the rule has to be changed immediately.

The change of date was made for italian (and maltese I think) juniors to be able to go to the WC better in July.

You gave the answer to that chapter already in your last sentence of the first part. It was their right to do so, if a FISTF Board thinks different that has to be changed. In a first row the association applies for the World Cup.
I don't think that change was only made for italians and maltesians, when the WC was in september children from other countries had also problems to attend the world cup.
The problem is that school doesn't start at the same time in all countries, but there are holidays in most countries at the end of july. It can be positive when children have holidays it also could be negative, the same way both aspects are possible when the children have school.
The only real disadvantage is that trips like Greece, Spain or Italy are more expensive because of the holidays.

Believe me, that was the reason that was given in the italian forum. So it's not about thinking what it was about. It's about reading it from the persons responsible. Or did you see another reason somewhere?

Why change to Palermo was never cleared (to my knowledge) even there, despite many questions by many italians. Perhaps some important person wanted it there, who knows...

The school year is of course different in different countries. But in FISTF you should definitely find an accepted compromise and not change to benefit yourself.

The disadvantage of prices is a clear disadvantage, too, that was not considered, and affected the tournament a lot.

But has anyone any real reasons for the change that actually had any positive effect and where considered from the view of all countries? Thought so...

The World Cup also shouldn't be given to a member, but to a clear location which is presented in the application. It can't be so that a BoD gives a World Cup to a luxury palace with great connections and cheap prices, and then it's changed to a completely different place.

In the end I think the members should accept all changes, and also the first decision, to give an approval on the big decision, and to end all unnecessary rumours.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
You can't promise something if you don't have a big possibility for it to become true. It's called deceiving. Otherwise anyone can promise anything.

The Board rode the professionalism wave and then they themselves couldn't live up to that even a little bit by organising a super EC. An "ok" EC is just not what they have been talking about all the time, and what they are expecting from even the normal GP's now. At the very least it tells of people with lack of connection with reality.

People make mistakes and promise empty promises. But the least they can do is apologise and admit they made false promises. I've seen so many false promises in FISTF before and after Frankfurt, that I don't believe it. And not one apology, or even an explanation with humility. Only excess martyrdom in the homefront of the cosy italian forum.

That view justify to say the EC was one of the worst ever? This sentence implements a comparison with other ECs and not the promises given by anybody.
If you say it was one of the worst, you are not right in my opinion. If you say it was a big disappointment after the promises given, I agree with you.
That comment is at least valid for your next 2 answers below too.

I'm not sure, but I don't think I wrote that this was the worst EC. I wrote that the hype was about a Super EC, and they delivered an ok EC. Ok EC is something ok, not bad, but also nothing special. i have no knowledge of the standards of the EC, so I can't say this was worst. I just read what is written, see the promises, the hype, see the videos (with italian as the only spoken language, that I heard, didn't watch through all of it, but jumped), see the comments etc.

What I wanted to say is what you agree on. It was disappointing gafter the promises given. Which is, in fact, why also the BoD has failed so badly in my opinion. The promises and the talks are not connecting with the reality. But hten again, I commented already in the old FISTF forum before Frankfurt that the PDF of Catania's lot was full of nothing concrete and just posh sales jargon.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
So why were these guys elected? The reason was professionalism, the best tournaments etc. And the thing that really appals me is that in the past years there has been so much criticism about the unprofessianlistic World Cups (and other tournaments) of Rotterdam and Rain, with beer at the tables and schedules that are not kept, and then at this grand event by the critics the beer was there again, but this time it surprisingly was not the fault of the organisers, but the drinkers.

Again the same thing. Not a problem, if the organisers have not spent the last years shouting lack of professionalism and poor organisation from the rooftops.

von K. wrote:
The information didn't seem ok before the tournament, as far as I read in the Subbuteonews and even here from Marcus (I think, I did). But are these other points enough after all the hype? No, of course not. If you are massacring others for their tournaments, you should be able to make a better one, or take the heat after a failure to do so.

And if the hotel offer was ok, why do I read in the italian forum Capponi speak about it like it was the foreign teams' fault that they didn't book that hotel and then the sponsor (the hotel/casino, I understood) was not happy. Why not take the blame for giving false information to the sponsor in the first place, and why not inform people that they have to stay there, if the hotel is the sponsor, or something? Why blame others again in the brainwashing institute that is the italian forum, as far as international matters are concerned.

For anyone interested in more critical tones about certain people, I recommend the old subbuteo forum in Italy. It gives some idea (objectivity is for anyone to judge, of course) of how some FISTF people love dictating others, love their own ideas even over a clear majority and how they for that reason love the chairs.

Vesa, please don't mix things here, I think we should be more concrete and detailed, that should be the job of our discussion here. We should inform people, trashing shouldn't take place here.
I talk about the organizer, you talk about the role of competition manager.
Marcus complained about the competition manager (more detailed about the missing information about the system of the tournament)
The organizer isn't responsible for that, the organizer did a good job in my opinion.

Ok, maybe I'm not making the distinction always correctly. But organiser Marco Pinausi is, in my knowledge, in the FISTF "team" of SdF. The location was clearly chosen by FISTF to show how italians organise a tournament. And the promises and talk made by FISTF where not contradicted by the organiser at any point.

I don't want to underestimate the work of Marco Pinausi. He clearly did a huge job.

Heinz Eder wrote:You hopefully won't make the organizer responsible for it that Piero complained about it that the sponsors were not happy. You hopefully don't make the organizer responsible for it that teams also chose other hotels close to the venue.

Organizer = Marco Pinausi
Competition Manager = FISTF (Stefano and Piero in that case)

I don't make the organiser responsible for Piero's complaints, but Piero wrote that Marco was very sad about the sponsor thing, and had to pay something from his own pocket, if I understood correctly. So it was the organiser who was upset.

The organiser was also the one who was very disappointed (according to Piero) that teams chose other hotels than the one he had booked for them (then Piero wrote about money for Casino and drinks, but I don't know if it was Marco's or Piero's thoughts). So the organiser clearly expected teams to go to that hotel, but for some reason didn't inform the teams beforehand.

What I don't like is things like this written in the italian forum, which is already very biased (especially concerning the heard Lorenzo mentioned). So people in Italy now think that the fault of Marco's sadness are the foreign teams that didn't go to that hotel. But Marco himself has not written to the forum about these.

Maybe now I explained it better. I'll add as quote Piero's text in the end of this post.

Heinz Eder wrote:
von K. wrote:
It would be nice, Heinz, to see your list of positive things by the last few boards. I mean it really, because I don't remember many of those highlights.

in my opinion the following things should be conitnued.

sports newsletter
surveys
circulars
material matters
style guide
newly designed forms
regulary updated homepage

most of those things existed 2 years ago too, but they were developped by the boards of the last 2 years and that should be used in future too.

Before you say now that those activities are not much for 2 years, I want to ask you already now, to show me my post where I mentioned anything about it, how active they have been in my opinion.
I only said some of the things should be continued by a new board, nothing more.

Ok, but you also wrote that these boards have done positive things. If maintaining, in many ways not even at the same level, some basic things is enough to judge them positive, then ok. For me it is not enough. I can't remember any positive new or clearly developed things added by these boards.


Piero's comment from the italian forum a few days ago (ask if you don't understand something with the translator or otherwise):

Mi ero ripromesso di stare zitto....

Ma siccome sembra che ci sia ancora bisogno di spiegazioni do le ultime.

Magari servono per riflettere.

Stefano ed io eravamo arrivati a Nova Goriza con il vaso molto ma molto pieno.

Mauro ha scritto tutto quello che penso, ma è stato troppo gentile e troppo profondo.

Il CDT/Subbuteo è più terra terra, quindi cominciamo: (citerò gli episodi curiosi solo da giovedi scorso...., ripeto, dell'ultima settimana)

La settima scorsa ho scritto a Riccardo Marinucci per dirgli che se Sergio Loureiro non avesse fatto la tessera dell Federazione Portoghese non avrebbe giocato la Europa league o la Coppa Italia, o la Seria A, etc.. (mi scuso con Sergio, non ci stiamo simpatici ma almeno è di quelli che dice come pensa. Ma non accetto più da nessuno che mi faccia la morale sulla barca...)

La settimana scorsa ho litigato con Carlos Flores perchè non ha ancora restituito la Coppa Master del 2007, che sembra diventata una questione di stato invece per Massimiliano Nastasi riavere dopo averla vinta nel 2008. Ci sono state chiamate con De Francesco, Lamberti e Flores.

La settimana scorsa Leonidas Koutrumanos ha avuto, un principio d'infarto. La sua squadra non è venuta alla Europa League. Sono arrivato a dubitare, purtroppo della veridicità dell'informazione. Mi dispiace anche se ancora non so se è vero.

La settimana scorsa ho ricevuto circa 70 mail (dato certo) sul "problema Kaspar Bennet", squalificato DALLA SUA FEDERAZIONE E NON DALLA FISTF perchè non si è presentato, forse perchè ubriaco, a giocare il Mondiale a squadre. Kasper ha "provocato" una riunione d'urgenza a Nova Goriza dove ci ha chiesto di giocare perchè in mattinata sarebbe arrivata una richiesta della ESTFA di cancellare la squalifica....non ha giocato. Delle poche cose fatte bene nel week end.

Venerdi sera, arrivando a Nova Gorizia, scopriamo che Issy Le Molineaux, unica squadra francese presente all'evento, non viene...e non ha avvisato, visto che la notizia la porta..Nuno Noronha, portoghese che gioca in Spagna. (?)

E arriviamo al torneo di Sabato.

Marco Pinausi era molto triste perchè più della metà delle squadre non era andata a dormire agli alberghi convenzionati...(c'è la crisi...peccato che poi la gente i soldi li sputtana per ubriacarsi o per giocarseli al casinò...)

Naturalmente lo sponsor principale gli ha detto che cosi non andava bene..gli costerà qualche centinaio di euro.

Ma andiamo alla parte tecnica:

La Liga Odense non doveva giocare. Non avevavno una sola maglia uguale. Se avessi richiesto 4 magli uguali....giocavano al massimo 10 squadre. (certo perchè è difficile coordinarsi con i compagni su che maglia mettersi per giocare la mattina...non lo fanno in nessun sport..leitner ha giocato la semifinale con la maglia del Milan fatta per celebrare lo scudetto 2011..)

La metà circa dei portieri era inregolare perchè superiori in altezza e diametro della barra.

In barba hai divieti di bere alcol ho visto bella gente con le birre in mano in tribuna e sul parquet.

Un grande numero di giocatori non aveva le figure delle stesso colore, o addirittura i dischetti.

Le basi+figure sotto i 27 mm abbondavano, quando un mio compagno di squadra (arbitrando) l'ha fatto notare a un giocatore belga...è quasi scoppiata la rissa.

Ho dovuto spiegare a giocatori considerati "forti" che giocano da 15 anni che la regola è...del 1994. E che il problema non sono le basi Colpani. I 4 giocatori del Madrid (la mia squadra) gioca con le Colpani...perfettamente regolari a 27 mm...quindi non era impossibile no?

Poi ci sono state la partite:

Andavano ammoniti o espulsi Saverio Bari, Simone Bertelli, Mark Gauci, tutto l'Atlas, Kechris e quasi tutto l'Olimpia Pireo, la Virtus Rieti, lo Charleroi, i due Rochefort (compreso il presidente della federazione Belga Dejardin)...un paio di gocatori dello Stembert, etc.etc.etc. Dico eccetera perchè non voglio far torto solo ai citati. Ce ne sono molti di più che mi sono dimenticato.

Ci sono stati un paio di accenni, e non solo, di rissa, diverse scene d'escandescenze.

Curioso l'episodio, prima delle semifinali, in cui siamo stati fermi 15 minuti perchè il Rochefort non volveva arbitrare dopo averlo fatto gia due volte di seguito.....non vi dirò cosa ha detto Dejardin....capitano e presidente belga. (devo anche dire che tutte le squadre hanno giocato minimo 10 partite...)

Ammoniti? 0. Espulsi? 0. Premetto che le regole non mi consentivano di prendere provvedimenti in quanto presidente. Non è previsto.

Curiosamente qualcuno ha avuto anche il coraggio di protestare perchè non c'era Eurosport.....a cui ho dovuto chiedere io..di non venire...perchè sapevo come sarebbe andata.

Questa è la cronaca dell'ultima settimana, solo legata agli eventi più "importanti" della vita "normale" del CDT.

Un ultima riflessione. Non ci prendiamo in giro, Mauro l'ha spiegato benissimo, seduti a un tavolini siamo tutti della bravissime persone, ma quando parte il cronometro ci trasformiamo in psicopatici.

Curiosamente quello che ho scritto me lo aveva annunciato Coppenolle. Vincent aveva ragione; a la gente del CDT/Subbuteo va bene cosi.

A me no.

Un abbraccio a tutti voi, ma solo a tavolino, mai più al tavolo di gioco.

Piero

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Re: Piero Capponi at least resigned

Post  von K. on Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:35 am

This quote from italian forum by Piero tells all about how badly he, and many others, judged people when he only judged them by forums or by some old reputation or something else which I don't know. Garnier was a dead fish for the Board according to many, and still for example Spain must have voted for him. And now Piero writes, surprised or disappointed, that Garnier vanished after the elections (just as everyone here expected).


E`curioso come questa decisione sia stata presa, probabilmente, da Laurent Garnier, che è sparito il giorno dopo le elezioni di febbraio.

I congratulate all the FISTF members who voted for Garnier!

If this testimony by the outgoing president is not enough to call for a rapid EGM, then I don't know what is.

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