Meeting in Palermo

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  maxischn on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:01 am

you don't have to be, but it looks way better if you are and perhaps you can get a better prize if you don't present your self as business man but as "representative" of a small group of people who love to play Smile

and as already said in the italianationl forum, everyone who wants to use "subbuteo" needs his permission now.... so byebye FISTF directors if they are not wanted by him Very Happy
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:15 am

For me it sounds like a political decision. If it is true Totalsoccer bought the rights from Hasbro the decision of Piero is quite serious and wise. Totalsoccer is a regular company existing due to profit. Total clear and acceptable.

A global federation must be lead as neutral as possible. Regarding his business this could lead to
conflictive targets ....

I only wonder why Piero is stating what he is stating. If the translation is correct he is closing doors with the statement.

But we should wait an official communication ...
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Kaitsu on Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:04 am

Heinz Eder wrote:it is a translator, so please let's stay in reality.
i think we all know what he means, but to put every single word on a weighing machine is bit too much in my opinion.

He neither speaks about killing somebody nore cleaing (in a racist way) our community, he only thinks that some people should be banned for their continously personal insults again other people.

Heinz
I think we all know what he meant, but still I think it's bit harsh if someone want's to get rid of certain people because they don't accept others actions nor share/agree others visions. That's why I think it can also be some personal life issues which affects more in personal level than random people's writings on the internet.

We all can see the possible situation with Total Soccer and FISTF Presidency with the most recent information related to materials and equipment production, just like Janus wrote.
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:03 pm

Do you really think that it is only a matter of different opinion?
Honestly I don't think so.
It is really funny to read again the thoughts of some people who try to guess what others maybe wants to say by their actions.
The history repeats and repeats, in FISTF it seems to repeat more often. We already have the third time now!

Kaitsu wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:it is a translator, so please let's stay in reality.
i think we all know what he means, but to put every single word on a weighing machine is bit too much in my opinion.

He neither speaks about killing somebody nore cleaing (in a racist way) our community, he only thinks that some people should be banned for their continously personal insults again other people.

Heinz
I think we all know what he meant, but still I think it's bit harsh if someone want's to get rid of certain people because they don't accept others actions nor share/agree others visions. That's why I think it can also be some personal life issues which affects more in personal level than random people's writings on the internet.

We all can see the possible situation with Total Soccer and FISTF Presidency with the most recent information related to materials and equipment production, just like Janus wrote.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Kaitsu on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:07 pm

I'm just a simple guy who wonders what's going on until provided some real facts. Hope it all will make sense soon. And no, I didn't think Piero would resing because of critics.
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:12 pm

I don't think he resigns only because he owns the name of subbuteo now.

Kaitsu wrote:I'm just a simple guy who wonders what's going on until provided some real facts. Hope it all will make sense soon. And no, I didn't think Piero would resing because of critics.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Kaitsu on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:23 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:I don't think he resigns only because he owns the name of subbuteo now.
Didn't mean the brand, but being producer of playing equipment and part of the team who accepts the future producers to be official partners of FISTF can be tricky and that's the biggest reason to this action from the view of someone who doesn't know better.

The comment of SdF's was just confusing and sounded more personal than overall and while taken out of the full conversation it seems to be related to tf 'world' as it was posted on tf forum, but i can't know if those people are talking about their personal non-tf related real life issues on the internet forum. I just assumed that they wouldn't.

But after all this guessing is just way to kill some time and has nothing to do with the actual situation and reasons behind Piero's decision. I'm still waiting to know more facts.
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:27 pm

Thossa wrote:I thought, Piero┬┤s resign is the logical consequence out of the fact Total Soccer is now owner of the Subbuteo rights... Cool
That should be a very logical consequence...

maxischn wrote:nothing will change again, FISTF has been killed finally, they celebrate them as the great winners and leave back some ruins

well yeah, at least some people used their position properly now and own important rights and can earn some money Very Happy
Can't agree more...

maxischn wrote:and as already said in the italianationl forum, everyone who wants to use "subbuteo" needs his permission now.... so byebye FISTF directors if they are not wanted by him Very Happy
I remembers me Guerrero asking (as a provocation?) in a thread on Facebook if I had permission to use the word Subbuteo in WASPA lol!

Heinz Eder wrote:I don't think he resigns only because he owns the name of subbuteo now.
From what I heard there was a "battle" in the U19 final between Italy and Malta. Looks like some young maltese players had a very bad behavior (those who told that were italians so we don't know who was right or wrong) and Piero decided to go to defend the Italians (in the group stage, Malta beat Italy but the final, Italy won). Looks like some maltese players wanted to hit Piero. I don't know details and I don't want to judge anyone but people should remember Piero's unacceptable behavior last year in Rain when he was pushing the young spanish players to have some unfair behavior in the U19 semi-final against Germany. He was lucky enough that nobody overreacted as his behavior could have provocked some bad reactions from "hot people". That day he just proved he's unfair and his good words about "education" and "image of the sport" are forgotten once his personal interests are involved. And this is extremely sad...

By the way, we still don't know what happened at the meeting in Palermo...

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Kaitsu on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Admin wrote:From what I heard there was a "battle" in the U19 final between Italy and Malta. Looks like some young maltese players had a very bad behavior (those who told that were italians so we don't know who was right or wrong) and Piero decided to go to defend the Italians (in the group stage, Malta beat Italy but the final, Italy won). Looks like some maltese players wanted to hit Piero. I don't know details and I don't want to judge anyone but people should remember Piero's unacceptable behavior last year in Rain when he was pushing the young spanish players to have some unfair behavior in the U19 semi-final against Germany. He was lucky enough that nobody overreacted as his behavior could have provocked some bad reactions from "hot people". That day he just proved he's unfair and his good words about "education" and "image of the sport" are forgotten once his personal interests are involved. And this is extremely sad...

By the way, we still don't know what happened at the meeting in Palermo...
This sh*t is way beyond my imagination.. I'll stop guessing now and go do something else.. Sorry for wasting peoples time..
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:40 pm

Piero is producing starter kits, honestly as long as he doesn't start to produce bases and keepers like Tecchiati, De Angelis or somebody simular, I don't see any conflict between his business and FISTF.
Honestly even if Piero would mention the reasons for his resignation (at least it isn't official yet), people would say he is lying and guess about the real reasons. There is so much mistrust that it doesn't make any difference for Piero in the end if he says something about it or not.
I don't speak italian, but I know that the translator is very often the reason for confusions.

Kaitsu wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:I don't think he resigns only because he owns the name of subbuteo now.
Didn't mean the brand, but being producer of playing equipment and part of the team who accepts the future producers to be official partners of FISTF can be tricky and that's the biggest reason to this action from the view of someone who doesn't know better.

The comment of SdF's was just confusing and sounded more personal than overall and while taken out of the full conversation it seems to be related to tf 'world' as it was posted on tf forum, but i can't know if those people are talking about their personal non-tf related real life issues on the internet forum. I just assumed that they wouldn't.

But after all this guessing is just way to kill some time and has nothing to do with the actual situation and reasons behind Piero's decision. I'm still waiting to know more facts.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Kaitsu on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:48 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Piero is producing starter kits, honestly as long as he doesn't start to produce bases and keepers like Tecchiati, De Angelis or somebody simular, I don't see any conflict between his business and FISTF.
I have to disagree with you on this based on the following:


1) A list of producers recognized by FISTF will be created. They must fulfil 3 requirements:
- Being a recognized company in the country where it is based.
- Have, in its social order, the possibility of manufacturing, marketing, selling and importing toys or sports equipment.
- Have the producing capacity a minimum quantity from each product.

The process of recognition is as follows:
All producers interested in being recognized must send a request to FISTF (Sports Department, Marketing Department and President) and make a deposit of 100 euros in the FISTF account, as a management fee that will not be refunded.

As soon as the request has received, FISTF will send the requirements for the production's minimum quantity, time, etc.

Once recognized, the producer may request the approval of the required products. The producer must pay to FISTF the amount of 60 euros for each approved product. This amount will be refunded if the product has not been homologated.

Once homologated the product (only after receiving written confirmation of its homologation) the material may be used in any official event FISTF.

In all boxes, envelopes or packaging of homologated products it is mandatory to identify the producer.

This recognition process is mandatory for all those who already have product on the market.

Heinz Eder wrote:
Honestly even if Piero would mention the reasons for his resignation (at least it isn't official yet), people would say he is lying and guess about the real reasons. There is so much mistrust that it doesn't make any difference for Piero in the end if he says something about it or not.
I don't speak italian, but I know that the translator is very often the reason for confusions.
I don't know what people are saying after the information is released, but personally i'll go with that as I don't know better. The translators are "from the devil" and BoD members should have someone to help/translate (at least) the official informations they release.
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:00 pm

so in the end you think that piero tries to exclude other producers on purpose by deciding rules which he knows can't be fullfilled by his contrahents!? (there is nothing concrete mentioned about the quantity for an example)
The only interesting on that matter is what happens if the producer of my bases or goalkeeper won't pay the amount to be official partner? Can I ask my money back then, who pays me my new set of figures, which I bought before that decision?
Those questions are more interesting for us players than the "political" consequence out of that. That should be the association's job to ask about all those things. The associations have to defend their player's interests.

Kaitsu wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Piero is producing starter kits, honestly as long as he doesn't start to produce bases and keepers like Tecchiati, De Angelis or somebody simular, I don't see any conflict between his business and FISTF.
I have to disagree with you on this based on the following:


1) A list of producers recognized by FISTF will be created. They must fulfil 3 requirements:
- Being a recognized company in the country where it is based.
- Have, in its social order, the possibility of manufacturing, marketing, selling and importing toys or sports equipment.
- Have the producing capacity a minimum quantity from each product.

The process of recognition is as follows:
All producers interested in being recognized must send a request to FISTF (Sports Department, Marketing Department and President) and make a deposit of 100 euros in the FISTF account, as a management fee that will not be refunded.

As soon as the request has received, FISTF will send the requirements for the production's minimum quantity, time, etc.

Once recognized, the producer may request the approval of the required products. The producer must pay to FISTF the amount of 60 euros for each approved product. This amount will be refunded if the product has not been homologated.

Once homologated the product (only after receiving written confirmation of its homologation) the material may be used in any official event FISTF.

In all boxes, envelopes or packaging of homologated products it is mandatory to identify the producer.

This recognition process is mandatory for all those who already have product on the market.

Heinz Eder wrote:
Honestly even if Piero would mention the reasons for his resignation (at least it isn't official yet), people would say he is lying and guess about the real reasons. There is so much mistrust that it doesn't make any difference for Piero in the end if he says something about it or not.
I don't speak italian, but I know that the translator is very often the reason for confusions.
I don't know what people are saying after the information is released, but personally i'll go with that as I don't know better. The translators are "from the devil" and BoD members should have someone to help/translate (at least) the official informations they release.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Kaitsu on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:27 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:so in the end you think that piero tries to exclude other producers on purpose by deciding rules which he knows can't be fullfilled by his contrahents!? (there is nothing concrete mentioned about the quantity for an example)
Well, I don't if he would that as I don't know him that good, but the setup provides possibilities to "fix" things. The situation would be same for anyone and this is not 'Piero-case' but it's case of being same time producer and member/president of the team who decides the official producers.

I share Your point in Your previous post where was mention that Total Soccer doesn't produce same pro equipment than some others because many pro player uses pro equipment. Total Soccer being out of the producers would make it useless for rookies to play with in national FISTF tournaments for example. Can't say much about national leagues nor WASPA's rules about equipment, but anyways not being in the list would just harm any producer, amateur or pro.

Heinz Eder wrote:The only interesting on that matter is what happens if the producer of my bases or goalkeeper won't pay the amount to be official partner? Can I ask my money back then, who pays me my new set of figures, which I bought before that decision?
Those questions are more interesting for us players than the "political" consequence out of that. That should be the association's job to ask about all those things. The associations have to defend their player's interests.
I would assume that mainly all current FISTF related producers will apply for the official partnership, so I wouldn't be too worried about that. I don't know if people think that there's some big issues in currently used bases or so, but I understand the problems with modified keepers. FISTF announced to give every player new accepted keeper for free, so the best case is that nothing else changes.

But now this convo has gone more in to offtopic about the material related stuff. Vincent, are you able to move these few posts in to right topic?
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  von K. on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:43 pm

I believe (no facts) that Piero's resignation can be a combination of reasons. But the last straw, and possibly even the only reason, is what happened in the U-19 game Italy-Malta.

He didn't give any other reason for this yesterday, but specifically mentioned that game.

Vincent, what happened in Rain is far less serious than someone trying to hit a person, especially the FISTF President. It speaks volumes of the problems in this game, that even without the "opposition" (doesn't exist in truth), there can be developments like this.

I can easily see that Piero, with all his faults still a peaceful non-aggressive person, doesn't want to continue after that.

What SdF wrote can mean also the aggressive players. I would like clarification before judging him for that particular comment.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:07 pm

If that would be the reason his resignation would be the totally wrong sign after only 6 months.
Normally he and his board (and anybody else with any board members) have the responsibility to fight against such happenings. The DC is the right institution to handle that and then I hope that the responsible people/players in the associations understand that violence or even the calling for violence has to nothing to do with a tablesoccer tournament.
So I would send a report to the DC instead of resigning.
On the other side if young people see that it happens at many tournaments between grown-ups without consequences it is difficult.
Even the aggresive pushing of players should be forbidden in my opinion. I also saw people from other countries pushing the children and nearly shouting at them, because they didn't do what people outside told them to do in a special situation.
It isn't a special problem in 1 country only.

von K. wrote:I believe (no facts) that Piero's resignation can be a combination of reasons. But the last straw, and possibly even the only reason, is what happened in the U-19 game Italy-Malta.

He didn't give any other reason for this yesterday, but specifically mentioned that game.

Vincent, what happened in Rain is far less serious than someone trying to hit a person, especially the FISTF President. It speaks volumes of the problems in this game, that even without the "opposition" (doesn't exist in truth), there can be developments like this.

I can easily see that Piero, with all his faults still a peaceful non-aggressive person, doesn't want to continue after that.

What SdF wrote can mean also the aggressive players. I would like clarification before judging him for that particular comment.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  zinga on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:19 pm

von K. wrote:I believe (no facts) that Piero's resignation can be a combination of reasons. But the last straw, and possibly even the only reason, is what happened in the U-19 game Italy-Malta.

He didn't give any other reason for this yesterday, but specifically mentioned that game.
If crossposting is not forbidden in this forum, could someone put a link to the topic in Subbuteoforum.it so that we could all use the Google translator to follow what is happening.
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:49 pm

von K. wrote:Vincent, what happened in Rain is far less serious than someone trying to hit a person, especially the FISTF President. It speaks volumes of the problems in this game, that even without the "opposition" (doesn't exist in truth), there can be developments like this.
I agree, I just said he should be happy that nobody overreacted because his behavior was just unacceptable (probably because the Germans are well-educated and not too "hot"), :-) )

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:31 pm

von K. wrote:I believe (no facts) that Piero's resignation can be a combination of reasons. But the last straw, and possibly even the only reason, is what happened in the U-19 game Italy-Malta.

There was one really loud conflict which almost became physically, but that was AFTER the U19 match between Spain and Malta in the group stage. This game was stopped approx. five minutes to go and had been continued after a huge load of discussions, but as far as I've seen (I was refereeing another match at that time) no players were involved. When continued 8all other matches were already finished), SdF held the timer and he was in the middle of the four tables supervising. The score when time has stopped was 2-1 to Spain which turned into a win for Malta quite quickly after the restart. A look onto results may help to understand...
After that game discussion raised again, became more and more aggressive and Piero needed to be protected from players pulling away the aggressively shouting person(s) from him...

Since I was refereeing the mentioned U19 final between Malta and Italy, I can say that no problems aroused during that match...
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:03 pm

What about Luis ? Was he approved as Comm.-Director ?
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:29 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:What about Luis ? Was he approved as Comm.-Director ?

No, but he has still the permission to do the work...
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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:24 pm

As far as I could read on the italian forum, the Maltese team tried to arrange the game vs Spain so that Italy could not play the final... Not so funny...

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:25 pm

Marcus Tilgner wrote:
Janus_Gersie wrote:What about Luis ? Was he approved as Comm.-Director ?

No, but he has still the permission to do the work...
???

No other comments about the other points in the agenda?

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Admin on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:16 pm

Looks like there was not enough time to discuss all the points in the agenda... Very Happy

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  von K. on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:30 pm

Admin wrote:As far as I could read on the italian forum, the Maltese team tried to arrange the game vs Spain so that Italy could not play the final... Not so funny...

It was something like this.

And in this case we have to give credit to Piero. I understood that he had intervened in some way (for which some maltese adults were trying to hit him, or something). And he also had explained for his own disappointed (for missing the final) spanish youngsters, that playing sportsmanlike is more important than the result. It is positive that he has either learned from Rain, or he has understood (unlike some others) the role of FISTF President is different from the country representative.

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Re: Meeting in Palermo

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:04 pm

Admin wrote:Piero Capponi wrote (on the italian forum):
Approfitto per comunicare che ho appena scritto la mia lettera di dimissioni da presidente FISTF che comunicher├▓ in modo ufficiale domattina.

It means he's resigning.

Shocked

Any news about the resignation ? Or was it just crap ?
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