Calendar for 2012

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Calendar for 2012

Post  von K. on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:21 pm

De Francesco has written a calendar that has 2 Majors and in a World Cup inside about 35 days!

Two of these events are in Greece with only 2 weeks separating them.

Two of these events are in July, which I had understood is traditionally a quiet month in Table Football.

It also seems like a slap in the face of Mattersburg, because it is hard to see many people travelling to 3 big tournaments inside a month. And Mattersburg is the last of these.

It's probably that I'm just so ignorant that I don't understand this, but perhaps someone else could explain the brilliance of such a calendar. With my limited experience and knowledge of things, I fail to see the big idea.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  kechris on Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:37 am

You did a correct comments but you are wrong.
Why?
At first the dates for majors and W.C selected by competition managers no by sport director.
Second, every year major of Mattesbourg is 35 days away of W.C.
Third, i think that two weeks separate between major and W.C. in Athens is too long time. I think to take place the next weekend. 1997 in W.C of Athens, one weekend before took place G.P. of Athens. It was very success. 50% of participations of W.C. came one week before, played in G.P. after spent their week for holidays in Greek beach and after they played W.C.
IN TEN DAYS TWO GREAT TOURNAMENTS AND HOLIDAYS ONLY WITH ONE AIRWAY TICKET !!!

Unfortunately the two weeks separate is bad selection and July in Greece for table soccer is worst selection (high season in prices of hotels and airways and high temperatures). The first weekend of september is the best idea.
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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:09 am

exactly Kostas.
The week in 1997 was a great thing for many people (including me).
About the calender you are right too, the sports director only collect the dates in the order you mentioned here.

Heinz

kechris wrote:You did a correct comments but you are wrong.
Why?
At first the dates for majors and W.C selected by competition managers no by sport director.
Second, every year major of Mattesbourg is 35 days away of W.C.
Third, i think that two weeks separate between major and W.C. in Athens is too long time. I think to take place the next weekend. 1997 in W.C of Athens, one weekend before took place G.P. of Athens. It was very success. 50% of participations of W.C. came one week before, played in G.P. after spent their week for holidays in Greek beach and after they played W.C.
IN TEN DAYS TWO GREAT TOURNAMENTS AND HOLIDAYS ONLY WITH ONE AIRWAY TICKET !!!

Unfortunately the two weeks separate is bad selection and July in Greece for table soccer is worst selection (high season in prices of hotels and airways and high temperatures). The first weekend of september is the best idea.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  Janus_Gersie on Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:50 am

A small but necessary remark: playing a WC in July makes no sense anyway. We had two exceptions: WC 2006 (because the big ball was rolling in June/July 2006) and in Austria two years later (same reason). For this year a change from September to July makes no sense.

And for the date of the WC this year the Sports Director is as much responsible as the organiser. So the calendar could have been equalised ....
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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  von K. on Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:20 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:
The week in 1997 was a great thing for many people (including me).

I don't doubt that. But I didn't write about a 1 week period, but two weeks, and in the most expensive month!

Also now there is not just Mattersburg and WC, but also another Major inside 35 days.

Heinz Eder wrote:About the calender you are right too, the sports director only collect the dates in the order you mentioned here.

So FISTF has no power whatsoever regarding the calendar?

What if the WC is put into February (just to test the limits)?

Stupid system if it is so. WC should always be decided listening to associations regarding both the venues and the dates. This would also help avoid speculation about friends giving competitions to friends.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  kechris on Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:08 am

Ι wrote for first time many years before and i insist in my opinion. Maybe never will change the system but i believe that we need a new simple calendar.
W.C in fisrt week of September, two E.C in the same place on first week of March and 10 great tournaments (MAJORS) the rest 10 months. And one more tournament like G.P extra per month.
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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:01 am

That would really be a big change!
Who choose the 12 organizers who are allowed to organize a FISTF Grand Prix?

It would be interesting if it would also affect the numbers of players in the ranking, if you only make 10 major events. There are already stats existing, where you can see how many players only play the smaller events, those players are the group you maybe would loose on the international circuit with your proposal.

kechris wrote:Ι wrote for first time many years before and i insist in my opinion. Maybe never will change the system but i believe that we need a new simple calendar.
W.C in fisrt week of September, two E.C in the same place on first week of March and 10 great tournaments (MAJORS) the rest 10 months. And one more tournament like G.P extra per month.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  kechris on Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:52 am

Come on Heinz....
One major per country will be more popular for all good players to travel.
The local weak players will take part to see the big "names" of world table soccer.
Of course we need a better system than the retro group of 3. No veterans in open category. Maybe the open category to split in pro and amateur category for newcomers and weak players.
I dream a game for all. For strong and weak players. For old and young. With and without experience.
But with protections. No a veteran against a junior. No the best player against a newcomer.
I think that my ideas are normal.

Sometimes the simple solutions are the best. But we are looking for a miracle.
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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  von K. on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:03 am

Kostas has a good point. It would also mean more weight of the basic activity would be put on the national circuit and local activity. And all international tournaments would be bigger occasions. It would also make sense in the tough economical climate, and also regarding the climate itself. Less travel times, more substance for each travel.

It's impossible for me to say, if that would be accpeted by players. And it would need some adjusting. But basically there is nothing really wrong in the idea. It's just a different view to the current one.

Of course these things have been discussed even here many times, but it's good to give food for thought.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  kechris on Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 am

Dear Vesa

There are only one championship and only one cup per year per country.
I think that one international tournament (or maximum 2) per country is ok to gain extra
value in people mind.
I want the power of Mons, Bologna now or Sucy in past for all countries.
A grand slam with 10 meetings which EVERYBODY dreaming and expecting to take part.
I know that people cann't travel easy out of Europe so we must create a perfect model for Europe at first.
Mons, Berlin, Bologna, Issy, Madrid, Mattesburg, MiltonKeynes, Athens, Amsterdam, Valetta maybe the 10 major stations in this trip and Lisbon, Helsinski, Rome, Rain, Cardiff, Edinbrough, Odense, Cyprous, Swiss, Praga, Gibraltar, Monaco the twelve grandprix stations.
As you can see i have only one tournament per country except the big countries.
If some tournaments fail to have many paricipations then will be replaced by others.
I want to apologie for my ideas to our friends in USA Argentina Australia but they must find solutions for their area. I like the idea to travel in every corner of earth but 12+12 hours in airoplane and 1000e for tickets is not good idea for 99% of european players.

I hope to gave you food for thought Vesa
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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon May 02, 2011 4:08 pm

Kostas,
maybe you got me wrong, I'm not against your ideas, but there are some points which would need a clearification in my opinion. Coming from your first post, I see some points to bring your system closer to reality.
First point is that it would be interesting how you would split the starter field in 2 groups. Could the players choose and is there a key you would use and players don't have the choice, if they want to play pros or amateurs?
Reading your ideas I think it would be best to let players choose their category (pro or amateur). No vets in the open category is normal I think with the exception of smaller events to give the players more games, but reading your previous posts here, that wouldn't be needed anymore, because the groups would be bigger anyway in those events right?
Second point is that I would like to know if I got you right that you would cancel the categories and split the tournament only in pro or amateur, right?

I only want to understand your ideas better that's the reason for my questions.

Heinz

kechris wrote:Come on Heinz....
One major per country will be more popular for all good players to travel.
The local weak players will take part to see the big "names" of world table soccer.
Of course we need a better system than the retro group of 3. No veterans in open category. Maybe the open category to split in pro and amateur category for newcomers and weak players.
I dream a game for all. For strong and weak players. For old and young. With and without experience.
But with protections. No a veteran against a junior. No the best player against a newcomer.
I think that my ideas are normal.

Sometimes the simple solutions are the best. But we are looking for a miracle.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  kechris on Wed May 04, 2011 1:24 am

The palyers can choose free their category. But for example the pro category will give double points than amateur cat. If a good player select amateur category maybe he will have easier opponents but no many points. If a bad player select pro category he will loose easy the games and he will take few points.
I don't like groups. But i know that is the simple solution for a daily tournament. So i prefer small group of 3 than a group of 4. BUT THE FIRST OF GROUP of 3 WILL QUALIFY AND THE SECONDS WILL PLAY BARRAGES AGAINST THIRDS. No reason for mysterious results. No fool rules for 5-0 high score.

p.s I am fan of swiss but it is a difficult system. In group of 3 is easy to find the tables and refferees.
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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed May 04, 2011 10:45 am

Ok, in my opinion I wouldn't let choose especially the good players, because then the sense of 2 categories would get lost.
You are now talking about pros and amateurs, the actual WR doesn't show that, because it doesn't mean you are a bad player only because of a bad ranking. For the players around the top 100 the decision would be a difficult one, I think.
Generally I wouldn't allow the seeded players of the tournament to choose the category, the rest should be free to join. The only "problem" could be that the "amateur" section would be bigger than the pro section in most tournaments (out of actual view).
I started to prepare the next edition of the vienna tournament, I think groups of 4 and/or 5 are possible without any problems of referees, but of course it doesn't make a difference if you make groups of 3 and let the second and thirds play the barrage or you make a group of 4 with the actual system.
The swiss system isn't so difficult as I know it. You decide how many rounds you want to play and then you play a fix system, but the position of players change and so the games change too.

kechris wrote:The palyers can choose free their category. But for example the pro category will give double points than amateur cat. If a good player select amateur category maybe he will have easier opponents but no many points. If a bad player select pro category he will loose easy the games and he will take few points.
I don't like groups. But i know that is the simple solution for a daily tournament. So i prefer small group of 3 than a group of 4. BUT THE FIRST OF GROUP of 3 WILL QUALIFY AND THE SECONDS WILL PLAY BARRAGES AGAINST THIRDS. No reason for mysterious results. No fool rules for 5-0 high score.

p.s I am fan of swiss but it is a difficult system. In group of 3 is easy to find the tables and refferees.

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Re: Calendar for 2012

Post  kechris on Wed May 04, 2011 5:34 pm

THE WORST IN GROUPS ARE THE MYSTERIOUS RESULTS.
but in group of 3 with barrages between seconds and thirds the mysterious results will stop immediately. Because only the first will qualify without barrage so two players cann't agree for one position!!!
Swiss is difficult for many persons. Mons or Bologna with 128 players in open cat we need 7 rounds. Because we need referees 2 x 7 rounds.
I love swiss but i know its problems.
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