Banned from the "official" forum

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Staalo on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:20 pm

Yesterday I was able to get in, but today I again receive the ban text and can't even read the forum. It's quite ridiculous.

Kechris, who is indeed flying "below the radar", can talk all he likes about the game being the most important. But if the rules are different for me and for him (he is not banned for worse texts, and neither are many others), it's impossible to agree regarding fistf. It's a personal insult to get banned for doing nothing, and no game can make that acceptable.

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Admin on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:29 pm

Piero Capponi was not banned for insulting Kechris, lol
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  kechris on Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:35 pm

I am dissapointed for Staalo banning.
I believe that the worst ban in forums is to delete the guilty posts.
If Staalo's post was "dirty" yes admin can delete the post. But no the writer.
Piero for the insulting post for me took his ban when deleted his post.
Do you remember what Voltair supported for the freedom of speech?

I am father of two childrens. The boy (like more boys) refuse to follow my advices immediately. I insist with dialogue, i insist many times again, after i am shouting and finally if he still refuse to hear me then i ban him. A system like this is maybe the best solution for problems in forums.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Kaitsu on Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:46 am

The problem is that there ain't really a clear line about what's allowed and what isn't. It also seems that in most cases there haven't given any warnings before the actual ban and that gives bad taste about the admin(s). At the same time other users can post more "hostile" messages without any punishment. And worst of all is that the people who are banning people have been insulting other members as they please. Even if they delete those insulting messages, the message have reached the audience.

The way these people are presending FISTF and administrating the forum is way below level that it should be. That's what creates problems on them and eats out their credibility in the eyes of the community. And this has nothing to do with the actual game that we all enjoy. Except these people are the ones making all decisions related to the rules, materials and bans.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:42 am

As I don't like being dependent from someone without having the possibility to influence the situation (e.g. SN forum: I don't know the admins; I don't know how they behave but they can delete posts or ban me without any reasons) I decided to delete my SN account. Being active but not reactive is even better in life ...

As long as some people think my input is not valuable or as long as some people don't take me serious (e.g. Threat "Criteria of ban") I won't be able to reach anything because those people won't listen to me. Accepted. So no more input from my side.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  dromer on Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:27 am

I understand your frustration but leaving SN is exactly what they want.
They don't like questions or remarks for them it is a start of polemics.

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:14 pm

dromer wrote:... but leaving SN is exactly what they want ...

So what ?
- In SN forum aren't any serious discussions.
- Interesting remarks/questions are deleted.
- The SN forum is censored.

I don't see any reason to stay any longer in the SN forum. Nor personally neither as an official representative from Germany.

It is a bad sign if they "forced" me to leave the SN forum because I will spread my reasons (like here). What will happen if more and more associations will retrain ....
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  von K. on Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:53 pm

I agree thoroughly with Janus' decision, and can only say that he is a man with dignity, spine and reason.

Straight after my ban, and after seeing the procedure (no serious discussion, or answers) of the Board in the SN, I realised this forum is the only place for serious international discussion that can reach many people (most other forums are national, and not widely known).

It can get heated and monotonous arguing here sometimes (not often), but that is a lot better than silence. And most heated topics here developed because of last year's catastrophic Board (with 4 same members as the Board today!).

So, I would suggest for everyone interested in real international discussion to come here.

And quite soon it could be time to gather different associations and make some official questions (if not EGM) to the Board. Many questions from so many areas remain unanswered and the attitude (favouritism, unequality etc.) of the Board is simply unacceptable.

Of course there is always the possibility of using this energy for WASPA.

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  dromer on Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:31 pm

I'm the first to agree that the level of discussion here is a lot better , not censored and so on.
Your ban is for me one of the most disgusting descisions SN took. But what I don't understand is the lack of action of the associations. Same thing happened when Vincent was banned by Catania, the Belgian association seemed to have lost their voice back then.


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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Admin on Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:47 pm

The Belgian association lost interest in many things but hopefully our AGM on friday will be positive! Rolling Eyes
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  drastis on Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:25 pm

I had also decided to stop posting in SN, but sometimes I can't help answering the outreageous posts of the members of the Fellowship of the Ring. I hope I will have the strength not to write in there again, no matter how silly things are said by the supporters of FISDF (Federation International Stefano De Franscesco).

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Kaitsu on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:25 am

drastis wrote:I had also decided to stop posting in SN, but sometimes I can't help answering the outreageous posts of the members of the Fellowship of the Ring. I hope I will have the strength not to write in there again, no matter how silly things are said by the supporters of FISDF (Federation International Stefano De Franscesco).
Well, i bet that's the main reason why some people hang around even tho they are thinking of leaving SN forum to be the place for BoD monology. If no one is there to point out the flaws and even stupidity of some posts the community will suffer. People are relying on false hopes as we have seen how much community's views and opinions have effect in BoD's decisions in the end. What will happen when the last ones abandon the hope?
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Admin on Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:17 am

If you write what you ant to write, you're banned...

That's why I didn't even sign in and just decided to ignore the SN forum even if I read the messages.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Thossa on Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:05 am

drastis wrote:I had also decided to stop posting in SN, but sometimes I can't help answering the outreageous posts of the members of the Fellowship of the Ring. I hope I will have the strength not to write in there again, no matter how silly things are said by the supporters of FISDF (Federation International Stefano De Franscesco).

FISDF Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Very good, George, very good.
I only can second that what you have wrote.
For the moment I am absolutely demotivated in TF cases. I have not really a motivation to play matches or to get around to organising things. One reason for this is certainly the ongoing not-amusing situation in FISTF. In August and November we can compare the WC and CL/EL tournaments with the same events of 2010. I bet the number of participants in 2011 will be much lower than in 2010. Anyone giving a dime against it?
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Admin on Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:26 am

If Ladbrokes was organizing bets about it, I could put some money on it Very Happy

Bets are great sometimes. Last week one of my friends was riding in a cycling race. There was a bookmaker at the start of the game and my friend was given at 25/1. His father put 50 Euros on a victory of his son and... the son won the race. it was a great day for both father and son Very Happy
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  von K. on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:21 pm

I think it's very difficult to keep away from commenting, if stupid things are written by the BoD. But if many people would abandon SN openly, it would help move the serious (and uncensored) discussion for example here.

FISDF is exactly what FISTF has become. It's quite clear to everyone with open eyes who is the puppetmaster.

I agree with Thossa, but I think the odds would be too low (1.01 maybe for less participating countries and players) to make a bet... I know that from Finland no one is going to the World Cup, because for some either the date is bad (July is not possible for many, for several reasons) or they are deluded by the FISTF. I want to point out that we have played in the last 4 (I think) World Cups and the interest for international activity and games has been rising here. So it's not a question of lacking interest.

I really wish an alternative (another EGM, WASPA or something else) will be found so that people like you guys get your motivation back.

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  zinga on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:12 pm

I am not yet, surprisingly, banned from the SN (StefanoNews.com) forum. Maybe my status of an association president helps me flying under the radar... king
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Admin on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:19 pm

Motivation is a big problem in many countries. In France the activity is again very low and almost nobody (or nobody) is going to the world cup. In the US, it seems like most clubs have stopped playing or just take a long break (see the ASA forum for details). In the Netherlands, things look almost dead. In Belgium the last Brussels tournament had an extremely poor turnout and the next national tournament might be cancelled (the system of the national events is wrong and that's another explanation for the bad success of tournaments. this will hopefully be changed in tomorrow's AGM). Well, there are many things going wrong in many countries and as long as FISTF will be one of the main reasons of problems, it won't help to get more interest from players. Some people say the problems of FISTF are because of personal conflicts but I think it's much more than that... Sad
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  von K. on Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:29 am

It's interesting that the SN seems to have banned about 100 people from even reading the SN forum while banning me.

At my work place I have tried to read the forum without logging in from several different computers and from several people's accounts. Every time the text of ban comes up!

It's quite interesting promotion to ban 100 people who maybe go to the site for the first time. The legal point of view would also be interesting, as it seems like illegal discrimination of people who work at the same place as me.

I did send an open letter to De Francesco by email (copies to several people), asking him to explain the reason for my ban and complaining about not letting me (and others, at the point of writing I didn't realise it was my whole work place) even read an "official" forum, which also requires logging in to see the attachments that he uses so much.

I asked for a serious answer. We'll see what I get...

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Kaitsu on Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:36 am

That's what happens when people don't have even smallest understanding about how these forums etc works. I'm not too pro myself, but if i remember correct they said that admin(s) have over 5 year experience administrating forums etc. It's kinda hard to believe that, but the main problem ain't the admins really but the attitude in the SN forum of BoD is the reason which is causing all this.

People have spoken about personal issues etc, but to be honest here, i didn't know these people (wasn't even heard of them at all) before the Madrid thing and all my images of them are based only on their actions and messages in Madrir and after that.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:57 pm

The last message posted by Piero about the behaviour in forums (Threat "Criteria of ban") is ridiculous and another sign of ignorance.
- First of all the given statement is clear for everybody. So why stating again ?
- Phrasing leaves all possibilities for admins to ban members/delete messages (so no additional clarification)
- No answer to the original threat. Reading again the rules I cannot find any misbehaviour for example by "von K". But surely I can find a lot of other messages by several people treating these rules by feet. So still the criterias are open und non-transparent.

I am more than happy I deleted my account by myself ....

"The amazing increase of members of the forum has made us think that some rules must be issued to warranty the good and smooth working of this community. This means not to be at the "jail" but to fulfil some "common sense" rules than avoid fightings and misunderstandings.

These few rules are basic in all forums we know (and manage) and I'm sure all of you will understand it.

1. No insults or bad words will be allowed (please, let it for the pub...)
2. No personnel fightings or discussions will be allowed (there's private messages, e-mail or the park to fight...)
3. No politics or religious topics will be allowed (everybody is free to think or feel what he wants, but at home...)
4. No violence topics or posts will be allowed (again the pub is the best place to do it, not here...)
5. All the previous rules are the same for signs or avatars (sometimes is worst 1 image than 1000 words)
6. The main language for the forum will be English. If someone wants to use his own language, please use the private messages or the e-mail (do you remember Babel tower?)
7. When you write a post, put you in the shoes of the people that will read it, will they understand completely what I mean?
8. When you read a post, put you in the shoes of the person than wrote it, I'm understanding completely what he means?
9. In the 99% of the cases, discussions could be arranged by private message (or in the pub...)
10. This is a common espace, respect for the others is respect for you.

Thanks a lot. Kind regards.

SN admin


Estas son las reglas de este forum desde el primer dia.
Las 4 personas que ha nombrado Stefano son las unicas banadas, y han sido banadas por incumplir estas normas.
Tan dificil resulta entenderlo?
No me parece.
El administrador es externo a nuestro problemas, y lleva 20 años gestionado foros mucho mas grandes. Su criterio no se discute.
No lo hago ni yo que soy el proprietario de la pagina.
Stefano ademas ha explicado perfectamente que hasta hoy se han banado solo 4 personas, evidentemente, teniendo en cuenta que ya casi 250 usuarios, el problema no somos nosotros.
Por cierto, estoy encantando de escribir en español. Me han dicho mis experto en comunicacion de no escribir o de escribir en español/italiano.
Besos para todos.
Piero
(ps. estoy inclumpliendo la norma numero 6)."
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Kaitsu on Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:19 pm

Piero Capponi wrote:
Estas son las reglas de este forum desde el primer dia.
Las 4 personas que ha nombrado Stefano son las unicas banadas, y han sido banadas por incumplir estas normas.
Tan dificil resulta entenderlo?
No me parece.
El administrador es externo a nuestro problemas, y lleva 20 años gestionado foros mucho mas grandes. Su criterio no se discute.
No lo hago ni yo que soy el proprietario de la pagina.
Stefano ademas ha explicado perfectamente que hasta hoy se han banado solo 4 personas, evidentemente, teniendo en cuenta que ya casi 250 usuarios, el problema no somos nosotros.
Por cierto, estoy encantando de escribir en español. Me han dicho mis experto en comunicacion de no escribir o de escribir en español/italiano.
Besos para todos.
Piero
(ps. estoy inclumpliendo la norma numero 6).
=====================================
These are the rules of this forum since the first day.
The 4 persons appointed Stefano are the only bathed, and been drenched for breaching these rules.
So it is difficult to understand?
I do not think.
The manager is external to our problems, and spent 20 years managed much larger forums. His view is not disputed.
I do and I am the owner of the page.
Stefano also fully explained until now have only 4 people bathed, of course, given that almost 250 users, the problem is not us.
By the way, I am delighted to write in Spanish. I have told my expert in communication not to write or write in Spanish / Italian.
Kisses for everyone.
Sorry bout the Google translator, but i don't know spanish..

Even tho i'm one of the banned ones, so maybe i'm wrong person to judge, but ain't this post against rules 1 and 6 atleast? I see this kinda funny. What is not so funny, is that i saw SDF talking about banned persons and now Piero speaks about them and these people can't post any message back to these accusations and explain (or defend) them selves. Same time many people have posted many times that they can't see anything that is against these "rules" from 'von K', but still he got banned. And same time SDF says that other people are using even worse language toward each others, but because those people actually love tablefootball they are allowed to speak that way. Oh, and 2 of those banned 4 poeple are the ones who have made possible that we are able to play TF in capital area FOR FREE for YEARS now and one of them is the website+forum admin of our association.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  Admin on Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:24 pm

Looks like "admin" might be Juan Carlos Guerrero.
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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  von K. on Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:53 am

SdF's answer (copied to finnish forum) to Zinga seems to be violating some rules...

It also tells a lot about the attitude, and the problem of answering questions seriously regaridng only what was asked. I believe this was about the reason for my ban. I don't know.

By the way the numbers are again a joke. 20 to 50 members all the time? Funny that I haven't seen those numbers. And that almost none of them write anything...

Dear Zinga,
I repeat one more time that I am the Sports Director FISTF.

I know that you and your friends just having fun on another forum, saying that i'm the puppet master, that i decide everything, that this federation is the FISDF and other similar nonsense.

In another forum you there dressed as wolves. Then you come here and want to dress up as sheep only for seems the victims. How can you demand respect? How can you think that someone will take it seriously?

P.S. one clarification. Von K. claims that about 100 people have been banned from this forum. This is the list of banned:

Von K
Kaitsu
Staal
Emil Thetrè

4 Finnish .......... is just a coincidence?

You surely don't listen to my advice. I am convinced that if you put all this energy in promoting the game, Finland is a nation with many more members than it has now.

P.P.S. - The players are in this forum to talk about table football, for find information about tournaments, materials, rules........
Unlike other forums in wich they are connected together maximum 2 or 3 members, in this forum we always have together from 20 to 50 people ....

My fear is that speaking always of controversy and never talk about sports, this forum will become a graveyard for 4 talkers being nothing like others........

The bolded part is what I referred to, and which Kaitsu (finnish forum admin) understood immediately, but Stefano's team of professional admins with many years' experience from all kinds of forums didn't understand...

von K. wrote:It's interesting that the SN seems to have banned about 100 people from even reading the SN forum while banning me.

At my work place I have tried to read the forum without logging in from several different computers and from several people's accounts. Every time the text of ban comes up!

It's quite interesting promotion to ban 100 people who maybe go to the site for the first time. The legal point of view would also be interesting, as it seems like illegal discrimination of people who work at the same place as me.

Kaitsu wrote:That's what happens when people don't have even smallest understanding about how these forums etc works. I'm not too pro myself, but if i remember correct they said that admin(s) have over 5 year experience administrating forums etc.

In fact about 800 children (maybe 200-250 over 15 years old) and about 100 adults have the same outgoing IP address. So they are all banned! They get that message when visiting. Nice promotion, don't you think Shocked Do you get it now, Stefano? (You seem to be getting information about this forum, so why don't you pull up a chair and join the discussion? It's real here.)

von K. wrote:I did send an open letter to De Francesco by email (copies to several people), asking him to explain the reason for my ban and complaining about not letting me (and others, at the point of writing I didn't realise it was my whole work place) even read an "official" forum, which also requires logging in to see the attachments that he uses so much.

I asked for a serious answer. We'll see what I get...

No answer yet. I reminded Stefano to answer my open letter, instead of writing to forums where I can not defend myself.

Still waiting to see about men and mice.

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Re: Banned from the "official" forum

Post  von K. on Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:56 am

No answer still to my email.

"This is the list of banned:

Von K
Kaitsu
Staal
Emil Thetrè

4 Finnish .......... is just a coincidence?"


Any clarification on why any of these nicks were banned? I guess no.

And no, Stefano, it doesn't seem like a coincidence. But I understand this as a country being targeted by you, because it's small and the people are not well known players, but are critical and voice out their concerns. Nothing else explains the banning of only finns (?), and already 4.

But I'm more than happy to accept this as our fault, if you explain with argumentation why these nicks were banned, and no other nicks have. I'm waiting...

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