The situation of the world rankings

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The situation of the world rankings

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:16 am

On the italian forum, it seems StefanO De Francesco and Piero Capponi think Freddy's decision not to publish the rankings is unacceptable. De Francesco said he wanted to know the opion of Vesa and Coppenolle. So here is my opinion.

I think we need to support Freddy Perdeans because he's probably one of the 3 people who has worked the most for FISTF over the last 10 years.
Perdaens has not only been one of the keys to success of FISTF because he always did a good job in due time but also has was an helping hand for several matters int he sports department, always able to work in a positive way with all other people.

As long as FISTF has no sports director, it's totally unacceptable to keep on publishing the world rankings "just like if nothing happened".

We are in a situation where democracy is in danger, where Catania is "over the laws". Can you believe Catania said the Open of Madrid is valid? It was announced one week in advance (so that no foreign player could make the trip!) while the Satellite of Athens (January 29 & 30) was not played (!!!). Rules (FISTF Hanbook... of 2009!!!) clearly state an Open has to be asked 2 months in advance. Why should Catania take decisions that are contrary to the rules?

Freddy does not stop publishing the rankings for his own reasons but just because there is no sports department anymore and therefore it's up to FISTF (who???) to appoint a sports director ad interim till the Congress. Catania just forgets to do that because he knows now that nobody wants to work with him.

Also, it's important to know that Koutromanos sent fake results of the Satellite of Athens (December 11 & 12) and refused to take the responsability to admit he gace wrong results! It also took more than one months to get the results file of the tournament (!!!), which made Freddy's job was rally complicated.

I will not speak about the Satellite of Rome who had never been added in the FISTF calendar (nobody knew about it) but Freddy decided to count the tournament anyway because he believe in Antonello's good faith and he doesn't want to penalize the players who played the tournament.

After all what Freddy has done for more than 10 years in FISTF, I believe he deserves a lot of respect (even if the concept of respect has been lost in FISTF in the last 18 months) and his decision should be accepted by all.
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:46 am

There also seem to be missed some results from an italian open in napoli from october. Exclamation
the tournament is not included in the november edition of the ranking, which make it obvious that the results were not sent.
It is really a shame that Freddy is attacked for his decision to stop the ranking. Without sports director, without results and a chaos in the calender because of people who don't seem to respect the rules of FISTF, it is the only way in my opinion.
In the end it is another mistake in our statutes which makes the actual situation possible.

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:11 pm

Sometimes the reality hurts... and sometimes the reality MUST hurt.

Freddy has my full support for his decision, to put pressure on every people to solve FISTF problems. He is the one who since (I think) 1997 worked very constant and accurate for the World Ranking, without any doubt on integrity. It is more than consequent to lock up the rankings, as long as the chaos in FISTF Sports department comes to an end - mutually agreed.

Nobody should blame Frederic Perdaens for this, at least not the helpers of the desaster.
Shame on everyone who try to decredit Frederic as one of the high respectable persons in FISTF matters.
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:56 pm

That band ...

1) Deliberate Vincent has omitted the intervention of De Francesco begins showing the maximum respect for Fred and his work over these years.

2) I did not say anything.

3) No one disputes the work of Frederic, that if it is not the owner of the ranking, is a person who works for the FISTF and whether you want to leave it to the Chairman putting all the information.

4) This attitude reminds me of little who was the owner of the ball and if not win .... went home, leaving the other free to play.

5) The level of hypocrisy is incredible. If the head of the ranking was a Maltese, or Italian, or Greek, or Spanish .... here we would be reading all sorts of offenses ..

GENTLEMEN, ESTAY MAKING THIS POSSIBLE FOR NO SOLUTION.

I HOPE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR FEDERATIONS are doing here.

AFTER MADRID, THE RISK OF TWO FEDERATION IS VERY POSIBLE AND ONE WOULD 2000 PLAYERS, THE OTHER 300.

You happy? I DO NOT, REGARDLESS OF BEING ON THE SIDE OF WHAT WILL BE 2,000.

kisses for Heinz.

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:30 pm

for me the nationality doesn't make a difference.
the point about the high possibility of 2 associations I don't understand honestly.
what is the point to use that kind of pressure in the actual situation?

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:51 pm

If we count the number of italian and spanish players involved int he FISTF rankings, we are far to reach 2000 (maybe 600) and the other are far to be 300 (maybe 1500)...

Numbers can always be interpreted...

As for Freddy, he deserves a lot of respect. At least as much respect as what I got in Frankfurt when I was told "thank you and fuck you"' (as a summary of the situation) from people who don't know anything about FISTF and who know realize that Frankfurt 2010 was the worst moment ever in FISTF history... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:12 pm

Vincent, FISTF ranking system is not to measure players in the world.

My club has 30 players, maybe there are 10 in the ranking FISTF.

In Italy there are 1099 players FISCT card. In Spain we are on the 250 (last month created a new club number 12, in Almeria), the Greeks are 300, 100 Maltese. know to add?

Want to ask where he played the Austrians (50)? the Portuguese (40)? Gibraltar (40),

This is the spanish ranking (Includes only players who have paid their annual dues)

etc?http://www.futboldemesa.com/images/torneos/_rk_ene_2011.pd

Numbers can always be interpreted...

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:24 pm

pierocapponi wrote:Vincent, FISTF ranking system is not to measure players in the world.

My club has 30 players, maybe there are 10 in the ranking FISTF.

In Italy there are 1099 players FISCT card. In Spain we are on the 250 (last month created a new club number 12, in Almeria), the Greeks are 300, 100 Maltese. know to add?

Want to ask where he played the Austrians (50)? the Portuguese (40)? Gibraltar (40),

This is the spanish ranking (Includes only players who have paid their annual dues)

etc?http://www.futboldemesa.com/images/torneos/_rk_ene_2011.pd

Numbers can always be interpreted...

If we have in Portugal table football material sold at shops as you have in Spain, we could also have more clubs and players. Where are the 2000 boxes you sent to Portugal ? We would like to know what happened to them. Why don't you send teams to Portugal too ?
Stop talking about Portugal if you don't want to help us.
Kisses for you too.


Last edited by Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:28 pm

undependent of the useless discussion about numbers.
if you want to play poker it is up to you, but don't involve austria in those games.
we are neither responsible for the actual situation nor do we prefer any side in thise whole silly discussion.
I wait for the moment, when one of the sides stop to look for confrontation. If you think i agree on freddy's decision only because he is belgian or anything else you are totally wrong.
please don't forget that freddy stayed after frankfurt to continue the ranking, he also only wanted to help the players undependent of the people in charge.
He did his job as long as it was possible I think, otherwise I can't see any reason why he stopped. I'm also pretty sure that there aren't any political reasons behind freddy's decision not to hand over the files to silvio.
actions and decisions always can be interpreted (at the moment from some people depending only on the nationality as it seems, if they are good or bad).

pierocapponi wrote:Vincent, FISTF ranking system is not to measure players in the world.

My club has 30 players, maybe there are 10 in the ranking FISTF.

In Italy there are 1099 players FISCT card. In Spain we are on the 250 (last month created a new club number 12, in Almeria), the Greeks are 300, 100 Maltese. know to add?

Want to ask where he played the Austrians (50)? the Portuguese (40)? Gibraltar (40),

This is the spanish ranking (Includes only players who have paid their annual dues)

etc?http://www.futboldemesa.com/images/torneos/_rk_ene_2011.pd

Numbers can always be interpreted...

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:51 pm

Louis as always .... you're confused and confuse people.

I wonder where he played for Portuguese players if there are two international circuit? In the circuit where I would be Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta, Gibraltar, France and others or to Belgio, Germany, Netherlands and Finland?

By the way, you come to Madrid?

A big hug Luis, do not be mad at me!

(By the way, and I will write here, the distribution with which we have spoken in Nuremberg on Friday, is not very happy with the sales data in Portugal, but despite this we are insisting a lot and I have appointments to keep Portgual distributed)

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:59 pm

Heinz, do not mean the Austrian federation, spoke of the Austrian players.

I ask, where will want to play?

The truth, I'm sick of the cheap provocations.

The "opposition" have no, or candidates, or program, or most, or players.

Nothing.

That if you have many talkers ...

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:25 pm

pierocapponi wrote:Louis as always .... you're confused and confuse people.

I wonder where he played for Portuguese players if there are two international circuit? In the circuit where I would be Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta, Gibraltar, France and others or to Belgio, Germany, Netherlands and Finland?

By the way, you come to Madrid?

A big hug Luis, do not be mad at me!

(By the way, and I will write here, the distribution with which we have spoken in Nuremberg on Friday, is not very happy with the sales data in Portugal, but despite this we are insisting a lot and I have appointments to keep Portgual distributed)

I believe that I'm not the one to be confused. There are a lot of people that are confused with so much talk but so few information and decisions.
You know it is very hard to work for the TF in Portugal at current days.
The lack of TF material is the biggest problem, but we have more problems that we must solve in Portugal. Thank you for your new information about my previous question.
But first, we must solve a bigger problem - FISTF situation, and the solution is not create another international federation. Talking about Northern group and Southern group doesn't help to find the right solution.
Where do you include Portugal ? In a third group ? Maybe the Western group ? FISTF must be a single an unified group. I believe it and I'm available for helping to follow this path.
If you confirm there will be an EGM in Madrid on the last weekend of February, there is a possibilty I go to Madrid with some proposals and maybe as a candidate also.

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:27 pm

Piero,
you always talk of opposition, do you really feel like that?
Do you really want to defend those who should take responsibility for the actual situation of FISTF?

I agree on it that there is too much sarcasm and people seem to be happy to see mistakes, which is totally wrong in my opinion, but you must confess that the board since january 2010 is a total failure and they are responsible for that on their own. Nobody told them to work like they did in the end.

Aren't there rules existing in the spanish association how things should run?
Would you like it if somebody don't respect the rules and do everything like they want?

I already said that the preparations before the call of the EGM were very poor, no question, but Spain and Italy were part of that, the same way the austrian federation was, of course you try to do the best now to save the situation, and I can understand that you feel left from some people, but do you think it is the right reaction to talk about split?

pierocapponi wrote:Heinz, do not mean the Austrian federation, spoke of the Austrian players.

I ask, where will want to play?

The truth, I'm sick of the cheap provocations.

The "opposition" have no, or candidates, or program, or most, or players.

Nothing.

That if you have many talkers ...

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:46 pm

pierocapponi wrote:

The "opposition" have no, or candidates, or program, or most, or players.

Nothing.

That if you have many talkers ...

Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Specify, please Exclamation
What "opposition" you are talking about, Piero?
I only see just one: a opposition against Catania, his henchman and how they operate.
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:10 pm

I also don't understand the word "opposition". The "opposition" is made of people who are against dictatorship, Catania's extremely poor management, the FISTF real problems in every day's life (results, website, calendar,...), the way elections were handled in Frankfurt (it was not cheating but it was playing with the rules), the way elections were cancelled in Rain,...

The opposition just wants the best for the game.

The opposition is just unhappy that all promises made in january 2010 were just promises and nothing else...

As I said many times, if the previous Board had been to the end of its term (september 2010), there would be a Board now with probably the same people (Catania, Stefano, Piero,...) and we would just have to accept it for 4 years, for better or for worse. I just can't accept the total lack of respect for what has been done for 7 years, that I read posts saying things like "the previous Board only did bad things" and the promise the new Board would be "more professional" (in reality they are nothing but professional). In a few months all FISTF money has been lost for meeting that haven't brought anything.

And that's just something we can't be happy about...
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:57 pm

Interesting answer Luis,

- I confirm that there will be Congress.

- I kept looking for solutions to avoid any division, you can say the same of others?

- The offense, contempt, superiority and insults are not exactly a great way to avoid splits.

Thossa,

not understand your question.

This forum has been created only to criticize the decisions, absolutely all, taken by the board of Catania. Only opposition if you did not publicly present a single new idea.

You called Catania (and other components of the board) criminals, thieves, (incidentally, the Maltese government would reward a criminal?), gangsters, fools and when it comes to candidly and submit the program?

Excuses.

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:02 pm

pierocapponi wrote:You called Catania (and other components of the board) criminals, thieves, (incidentally, the Maltese government would reward a criminal?)...
I think the maltese government is poorly informed of Catania's achievements in FISTF...

Seriously, what was the program of Catania in Frankfurt? It was only powder in the eyes to say "we want to be professional" but there was absolutely no plan to reach anything. Just blah-blah-blah and all basic requirements of what players expect from FISTF were forgotten... Shocked
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:07 pm

pierocapponi wrote:Interesting answer Luis,

- I confirm that there will be Congress.

- I kept looking for solutions to avoid any division, you can say the same of others?

- The offense, contempt, superiority and insults are not exactly a great way to avoid splits.

I think your reply very interesting too because I fully agree with your words.
Lets maintaining this way, both of us.
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  von K. on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:51 pm

I have not visited the italian forum for some time now, because of lack of time. So about this question from De Francesco, I didn't know.

I also don't know if De Francesco has answered all my questions, or at least the one where I asked if FISCT had received the invitation of an italian Sports Commission member from Silvio Catania, whose job it was, and after it (invitation to FISCT) was asked by Pere from Catania (who wanted to do the invitations). I asked this when trying to explain that Italy was important to Pere's Commission, and that it was not Pere (it was Catania) who apparently didn't contact the FISCT director responsible for FISTF matters (De Francesco), but didn't get an answer.

I have already written (my most recent post there) that people should ask the reason straight from Freddy. This was after I read the offensive circular (offensive forum talk is one thing, offensive official communication another) from Catania. I also wrote that Freddy had given reasons to Catania in a letter that the Sports Commission (and possibly many others, I don't remember if it was sent to all nations) saw also.

What I know is that Freddy didn't receive all results, and many very late missing even one months ranking because of that. I also know that Sports Commission unanimously didn't approve some tournaments as official, but after asking for explanation, didn't get an answer from Catania.

So the work became impossible for anyone to do. And I suppose finally, after the Sports Department didn't exist anymore and there was no Sports Director, Freddy didn't want to spend his time for something impossible. But, please, ask Freddy if you are interested in his motives. I wrote this also in the italian forum.

The competition results and past rankings are no secret, and I would expect Catania to have that information. He should have that, because he has access to all FISTF matters. So, I don't understand what he wants Freddy to send him. Can someone tell me that?

pierocapponi wrote:
I wonder where he played for Portuguese players if there are two international circuit? In the circuit where I would be Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta, Gibraltar, France and others or to Belgio, Germany, Netherlands and Finland?

Where do you get this information about Finland, and all the other countries?

I have always said that Finland is interested in facts, logic, fairness, honesty, rules and straightforward answers to straightforward questions. If this doesn't make us part of your TF world, then please say it clearly.

Do you also think all players from all countries want the same? With a division of federations and circuits, countries also can be divided in some cases.

pierocapponi wrote:The truth, I'm sick of the cheap provocations.

I hope you have written this also to other places. This forum doesn't have the copyright to cheap provocation, as you well know.

pierocapponi wrote:The "opposition" have no, or candidates, or program, or most, or players.

Could you answer a straightforward question. I asked you this before, and I ask again. (By the way, I'm tired of not getting answers to straightforward questions from some people.)

So, please tell me, what is this "opposition"? Who, against who?

Has anyone got candidates? I only see 4 names, and I don't know if they are "opposition" or what.

Has anyone got a program? I haven't seen one.

All countries have players. That I have seen.

pierocapponi wrote:
- I kept looking for solutions to avoid any division, you can say the same of others?

Can you say this about certain people?

You think you kept looking, but you don't seem to be willing to listen or understand anything that is against your thoughts. That way you will never find a solution.

pierocapponi wrote:- The offense, contempt, superiority and insults are not exactly a great way to avoid splits.

The same as for the cheap provocations. I hope you have written this also in other places (if you have, I lift my hat to you, if you haven't, you should). This forum does certainly not have copyright on offense, contempt, superiority and insults.

pierocapponi wrote:This forum has been created only to criticize the decisions, absolutely all, taken by the board of Catania.

This forum was created because the Board of Catania (wiht you still in it) closed the FISTF forum (a meeting place for FISTF people) without asking anyone else's opinion and without warning. Deleting all important discussions and information and feedback etc.

This forum was created because the Catania Board did not open the new forum it had promised for the 12.4.2010 (if I remember correctly the date).

In this forum people write many things, like in all forums. But can you please list for me the positive decisions of Catania's era here. That way we can see if you are right.

All criticism I, for example, do is based on argumentation, not on persons or nationality. So please tell me what criticism has been wrong criticism and why? If you have good arguments, I can easily take back my criticism and appreciate those things. I'm waiting for a clear list with argumentation, not just general comments (I'm tired of those also).

By the way, Piero. How do you feel about the circular0006 which is also signed by you? You also signed a paper promising elections in Rain, but didn't even come there to be true to your promise. You criticise people for not travelling to Madrid, but where was Spain, and you, in the congress of Rain where you had promised elections as a part of the Board?

Are you not critical because of the people involved are certain people? It seems like a pot and a kettle are having a discussion.

pierocapponi wrote:Only opposition if you did not publicly present a single new idea.

Many new ideas have been presented here in public. They have also been discussed openly. As an example starting from how to solve the problem of the goalkeeper, ranking system, tournament calendar, statutes and all the way to FISTF structures.

If they are new I don't know. What I know is that they are not in use in FISTF at the moment. And if they are the ideas of the "opposition", I don't know.

Admin wrote:Seriously, what was the program of Catania in Frankfurt? It was only powder in the eyes to say "we want to be professional" but there was absolutely no plan to reach anything. Just blah-blah-blah and all basic requirements of what players expect from FISTF were forgotten... Shocked

I remember writing to the FISTF forum before the elections in Frankfurt about the plan having nothing concrete and just looking good. I wrote already then that I never rate the presentation (outer), but the substance (inner). In Finland we say: many cakes look good on the outside (not a nuanced translation).

Finland voted for Coppenolle's block based on analysis of the situation and information. We could also have voted for Catania's block, but the scales went the other way, because of the hollowness of his program. This is why I resent the innuendo about Finland being part of some block.

Again, Piero, it is not personal. I just think a lot of things you write deserve to be questioned and criticised. As well as your actions regarding circular0006 and Rain compared to your comments about Madrid.

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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:49 pm

Thank you Vesa, sometimes I think this is not real what I have to read.... pale
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:59 pm

Vesa, I told you many times. Your IQ and your sense of logic are much too high for many people on this forum and in table football in general! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

FISTF needs people like you. Unfortunately there is only one like you! ;-) It's you! Razz
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  The Rock on Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:34 am

From what i have read all this time, i believe that vesa deserves a chance as an fistf director and why not as president? My suggestion for him is to be a candidate for any position he believes he can offer the most for t.f. He had earned my respect.
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  Thossa on Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:40 am

The Rock wrote:From what i have read all this time, i believe that vesa deserves a chance as an fistf director and why not as president? My suggestion for him is to be a candidate for any position he believes he can offer the most for t.f. He had earned my respect.

Well said, Giorgos Exclamation
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  The Rock on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:10 am

Thanks Thossa. It is encouranging to see new people around , with such ideas and spirit of offering to our beloved sport.
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Re: The situation of the world rankings

Post  SergLoureiro on Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:36 am

Vesa could be an option, there's only one question for the dubious ones, has he experience enough to take such a responsability? Well, the experienced "masters" failed, so, why don't give him this opportunity?! Supported by a strong team, i mean, Vincent, Heinz/Olivier, Luis, Freddy, Fred Vulpes, John Lauder, someone from Italy (Galeazzi, Antonello), perhaps a Greek one (Koutis, Drazinakis, Aggelinas)...
Think about it Vesa, that's what I suggest...

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