Official candidates in Madrid

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:26 pm

I gave my candidature already for communication. I would also have loved the job of sports director but it seems the majority (?) of people think I'm better for communication Laughing
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:12 am

An important question: will the Congress admit to give the jobs of FISTF Directors to the best people for each job or should we absolutely stick to the rule "6 different countries must be represented"?

I think about a stuatin where 2 people from the same country could really be in the Board because they are the best people for the sport.
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:34 pm

Admin wrote:An important question: will the Congress admit to give the jobs of FISTF Directors to the best people for each job or should we absolutely stick to the rule "6 different countries must be represented"?

I think about a stuatin where two people from the same country could really be in the Board because they are the best people for the sport.

Actually this is not a good things and should be changed soon. Not more than two each country, that makes sense. In the past we had sometimes three BoD-members from one country (as I already had posted) and nobody cares for it.
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:51 pm

von K. wrote:Candidates for the moment (correct if the departments are wrong):

Drazinakis (general secretary)
Vulpes F. (finance)
Coppenolle (communication)
Koutroumanos (communication)

Any others who I've missed?

edit: Coppenolle added, sorry wasn't sure it was already official from your part, Vincent.

Two questions:
Thossa is not candidate ?
No programs from noone yet ?

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:52 pm

1) For what should I candidate, Luís? Rolling Eyes
2) I think Vincent´s program is almost identically with my program, published half a year ago Wink

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
von K. wrote:Candidates for the moment (correct if the departments are wrong):

Drazinakis (general secretary)
Vulpes F. (finance)
Coppenolle (communication)
Koutroumanos (communication)

Any others who I've missed?

edit: Coppenolle added, sorry wasn't sure it was already official from your part, Vincent.

Two questions:
Thossa is not candidate ?
No programs from noone yet ?
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:56 pm

Thossa wrote:1) For what should I candidate, Luís? Rolling Eyes
2) I think Vincent´s program is almost identically with my program, published half a year ago Wink
Yes, you are right. There are enough candidates for Communication. What about Sports ? Smile

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:12 pm

About sports, we all know who's the perfect man for the job. We just need to convince him to accept the job Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  kechris on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:56 pm

I am not sure who is the perfect person for this job. If someone wants the job he can be candidate.
But i am sure that the statutes allow only one person per country and per nationality.
Only if no other candidates we can allow second by the same country. This is a special occasion.
When date stop sending candidates?
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:00 pm

right.
as far as i know it is the 20th of february.

kechris wrote:
But i am sure that the statutes allow only one person per country and per nationality.
Only if no other candidates we can allow second by the same country. This is a special occasion.
When date stop sending candidates?

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:01 pm

No dates Kostas,

statutes allow a person to be submitted until the morning of the conference.

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:03 pm

pierocapponi wrote:No dates Kostas,

statutes allow a person to be submitted until the morning of the conference.
So that voting by mail or letter is impossible... What a joke!
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:07 pm

as far as i know it is written down that it is possible to vote by letter.

Admin wrote:
pierocapponi wrote:No dates Kostas,

statutes allow a person to be submitted until the morning of the conference.
So that voting by mail or letter is impossible... What a joke!

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  kechris on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:11 pm

Thanks Piero.

I ask by Thossa to be candidate for president, Luis for communication, Vesa for secretary, Antonello for marketing, Chragg for sport director and Hipfinger for finance.
North south east west with experience and respect. AND WITHOUT PAST...

My opinion please. I don't want dialogue for this.
Thanks
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:14 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:as far as i know it is written down that it is possible to vote by letter.

From the FISTF Statutes:
9-6 It shall be possible for Members to use postal vote.

Nevertheless, how will it be possible to use this postal vote if all candidates will be known in the morning of the meeting's date only ?

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:17 pm

as it seems there is a mistake in the logic of our statutes Question Laughing

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:as far as i know it is written down that it is possible to vote by letter.

From the FISTF Statutes:
9-6 It shall be possible for Members to use postal vote.

Nevertheless, how will it be possible to use this postal vote if all candidates will be known in the morning of the meeting's date only ?

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:40 pm

Why?
If this letters is send via email... directly into the laptops of the EGM.
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:48 pm

kechris wrote:Thanks Piero.

I ask by Thossa to be candidate for president, Luis for communication, Vesa for secretary, Antonello for marketing, Chragg for sport director and Hipfinger for finance.
North south east west with experience and respect. AND WITHOUT PAST...

My opinion please. I don't want dialogue for this.
Thanks

I would have never expected to be top of somebody´s wish list Laughing
Nevertheless, thanks for your trust in me Wink
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:49 pm

How should those who are not there know that there is an additional candidate?
Do those who are not there have to sit in front of their pc and wait for a possible additional candidate, then they have to ask all board members of the national associations, if that changes something on the vote and then they have to send a letter by mail to send their vote?
the same with the delegates, do they contact the board of their national association then, to ask if they should maybe vote for the last minute candidate?

Thossa wrote:Why?
If this letters is send via email... directly into the laptops of the EGM.

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:52 pm

be happy, you are a man without past (at least without negative past in Kostas's opinion) Laughing

Thossa wrote:
kechris wrote:Thanks Piero.

I ask by Thossa to be candidate for president, Luis for communication, Vesa for secretary, Antonello for marketing, Chragg for sport director and Hipfinger for finance.
North south east west with experience and respect. AND WITHOUT PAST...

My opinion please. I don't want dialogue for this.
Thanks

I would have never expected to be top of somebody´s wish list Laughing
Nevertheless, thanks for your trust in me Wink

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Thossa on Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:How should those who are not there know that there is an additional candidate?
Do those who are not there have to sit in front of their pc and wait for a possible additional candidate, then they have to ask all board members of the national associations, if that changes something on the vote and then they have to send a letter by mail to send their vote?
the same with the delegates, do they contact the board of their national association then, to ask if they should maybe vote for the last minute candidate?

Thossa wrote:Why?
If this letters is send via email... directly into the laptops of the EGM.

Of course this is not normal and shouldn´t be the pracise, too, but at least it will work out all right. What do you expect after all Laughing
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:48 pm

Hello everybody, as I see many interesting question and I will be out for a week (I'm traveling for work reason) after a first reading of the Statute (2004) I tried to draft some point to clarify what the Statute says on some uncertain situation and I post it in case it can be useful for somebody.
Sorry for posting this in the two relevant discussion.
Best

1. Greek question: The Greek provisional board that will be considered in charge according to the decision of the Court will choose the delegate for Greece (unless otherwise previewed from Greek Statute). It can also give a commitment on how to vote (so I read art 9-1 under which a Country can have only one delegate). No proxy can be given to any of the existing BoD members (art. 9-5).
2. The call for the meeting: it is legal if it was requested by at least 1/3 of the members, at least 3 month a go (art. 8-3).
3. Who participate to the EC: all the Members. BoD can, before the congress, make effective the provisional members (that will vote) if they comply with requirements (art. 4-2).
4. Who can be elected: everybody. No necessity that candidates are Appointed directly by the BoD of the Members or the National associations. The limit is that the elected board members must have a different citizenship and come from a different National association (art. 12-4). The Board (for logic reasons the one that manage elections, but for sake of clarity better if confirmed also by the new board once elected) can derogate this rule permitting the election of two citizen of the same Country of the same National Association (art. 12.5).
5. Elections: with secret scrutiny (art.11.1)
6. President is elected at the first round with 2/3 of votes (art. 11.2). Otherwise, if this quorum lack, further rounds of votes shall be organized between the two candidates who gathered the highest number of votes at the first round. For these further rounds, the candidate who receives an absolute majority of the cast votes shall be deemed elected.
7. The other BoD members are elected with simple majority (art. 11-3).
8. Postal vote: it is expressly recognized by art. 9.6. However it is very difficult to permit its exercise given the freedom for candidate to be candidate up to the very last moment and, above all, the chance for the President to have further rounds of votes. Given this, the impossibility to exercise this vote in a democratic way imply that it should not be permitted. However, if the BoD intend however to gather the chance of exercising the postal vote, the Members could vote sending their choose written in a white sheet of paper, to be inserted in a white envelope, to be inserted in the shipping envelope. In theory in a separate white sheet it could be indicated also a preference for the eventual further round of vote for the President with the clear limit that this vote could result useless and void (if the two candidates are different from the one indicated). As this system impede to vote for candidates who decide to participate at the last moment, in order to avoid any kind of contradiction this system should be used only if strictly necessary and with an express waiver from who vote trough postal system for the potential negative consequences derived from the lack of direct participation.
9. Vote via email: not contemplated in the Statute (and however actually, not comparable – given the IT of FISTF - to a certificate postal system) and, therefore, not possible.

The relavant articles:
Art. 3
3-1 A National Association is admitted as Member of FISTF by the Congress after a probation period as Provisional Member. The Board of Directors is competent to grant provisional membership.
3-2 This probation period is necessary to ensure that the National Association complies with all the requirements for membership as listed in the relevant regulations. This period can be of variable duration.
3-3 Provisional Members shall not vote at the Congress, nor shall its individual members be eligible.
3-4 Members and Provisional Members may participate in official competitions.
Art. 4
4-1 A National Association wishing to become a Member shall offer its request to the FISTF Board of Directors. This request shall include its statutes and regulations. These will be scrutinized by the Board of Directors for conformity with the principles of FISTF.
4-2 The request for membership shall include (but not be limited to) the solemn promise to:
a) Abide by the Statutes, regulations and decisions of FISTF; and
b) Apply the rules of the game in force within FISTF.
4-3 The acceptance by FISTF of the request for membership shall render such promise legally binding on the new Member. This provision shall apply equally to Provisional Members.
4-4 A Member may at any time withdraw from FISTF by informing in writing the Board of Directors.
4-5 Even after it has withdrawn or has been excluded from FISTF, a National Association, its successors and assignees, shall remain liable for any obligation, monetary or otherwise, incurred when it was a Member.
Art. 8
8-2 The Board of Directors may at any time call for an Extraordinary Congress.
8-3 On the written request of one third or more of the Members, The Board of Directors shall call for an Extraordinary Congress within three months following the request.
Art. 9
9-1 Membership of the Congress shall consist of one Delegate per Member and of the members of the Board of Directors.
9-2 The Congress is chaired by the FISTF President.
9-3 Each Member shall have one vote at the Congress. The members of the Board of Directors shall not have a vote.
9-4 No Delegate shall represent more than one Member.
9-5 During the term of their mandate, the members of the Board of Directors shall not be appointed as Delegate by their National Association.
9-6 It shall be possible for Members to use postal vote.
Art. 10
10-2 The Congress shall elect the members of the Board of Director in accordance with the present Statutes
.
10-4 The Congress shall vote on the approval of the discharge of the Board of Directors, based on its activity report.

Art. 11
11-1 The Congress votes for elections shall be by secret ballot. In any other case, the vote shall be by show of hand.
11-2 For the election of the FISTF President, if one of the candidates receives a two-third majority of the cast votes at the first round, he shall be deemed elected. Otherwise, further rounds of votes shall be organized between the two candidates who gathered the highest number of votes at the first round. For these further rounds, the candidate who receives an absolute majority of the cast votes shall be deemed elected.
11-3 All other decisions of the Congress shall be taken by simple majority of the cast votes.
11-4 A white vote shall not be considered as a cast vote.
Art. 12
12-1 The FISTF Board of Directors shall include the following members:
• One President; and
• One General Secretary; and
• One Vice-President in charge of promotion and marketing; and
• One Vice-President in charge of sports matters; and
• One Vice-President in charge of communication; and
• One Vice-President in charge of financial matters.
12-2 The President shall be elected by the Congress following the procedure in Article 11-2.
12-3 The Vice-Presidents and the General Secretary shall be elected by the Congress following the procedure in Article 11-3.
12-4 The President, the Vice-Presidents and the General Secretary shall all be members of different National Associations, and all of them shall have different citizenships.
12-5 However, the Board of Director may, in exceptional circumstances, authorize a maximum of two of its members to depart from the rule of Article 12-4.
12-6 The President, the Vice-Presidents and the General Secretary shall be elected for a period of four years. They may be re-elected.
12-7 Should the President resign or be impeached from exercising his duties, the Vice-President who has been a member of the Board of Directors for the longest period shall take over his duties up to the next Congress. The next Congress shall elect a new President.
12-8 Should one of the Vice-Presidents or the General Secretary resign or be impeached from exercising his duties, the President shall appoint his successor. The latter shall be appointed up to the end term of the resigning or impeached Vice-President.


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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  kechris on Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:59 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:be happy, you are a man without past (at least without negative past in Kostas's opinion) Laughing

Yes of course Heinz.
I think that the EMOTICONS Very Happy : was not fair. For me and Thossa.
p.s did you see that in my list was not the name of my close friend and candidate Drazinakis? I said my opinion and if the greek provisional BoD ask by me to vote for elections in Madrid i will vote for the game no for me.
It is difficult for you maybe.
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  zinga on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:59 pm

giufaz wrote:8. Postal vote: it is expressly recognized by art. 9.6. However it is very difficult to permit its exercise given the freedom for candidate to be candidate up to the very last moment and, above all, the chance for the President to have further rounds of votes. Given this, the impossibility to exercise this vote in a democratic way imply that it should not be permitted.
Well, if there is a candidate known beforehand, it is possible to vote for him/her. If there is a last minute canditate, it is naturally not possible to vote him/her, but in that case the fault is not the nation with postal vote but the late candidate. Thus I find your view wrong as it is contradictory to the statutes.

giufaz wrote:However, if the BoD intend however to gather the chance of exercising the postal vote, the Members could vote sending their choose written in a white sheet of paper, to be inserted in a white envelope, to be inserted in the shipping envelope.
If the statutes say YES and the BoD says NO, who would you believe? In the current situation I would trust statutes much more than the BoD.
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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:39 pm

Zinga, the Statute preview the postal vote as a general way for voting in the Congress, not as a specific way to elect people.
It make sense to use this system for ordinary points but make much less sense for elections.
As the statute is not properly well done and it must be interpreted, I would not consider as wrong an interpretation that in this case doesn't permit the postal vote as it is not very logic (as for other point in the agenda that are not clear without a discussion in the congress).
I just suggested an alternative way as I imagine that there will be people interested only in demonstrating that there is some mistake and to prevent this situation.
If I were the organizer I would use the system even if useless and only as preemptive measure against speculation. Confident, however, that a Judge would not keep the elections as invalid even if in this specific case the postal vote was not permitted.
In our case, unfortunately also the idea of a claim is disturbing and if we can avoid it in a simple way, why not?


zinga wrote:
giufaz wrote:8. Postal vote: it is expressly recognized by art. 9.6. However it is very difficult to permit its exercise given the freedom for candidate to be candidate up to the very last moment and, above all, the chance for the President to have further rounds of votes. Given this, the impossibility to exercise this vote in a democratic way imply that it should not be permitted.
Well, if there is a candidate known beforehand, it is possible to vote for him/her. If there is a last minute canditate, it is naturally not possible to vote him/her, but in that case the fault is not the nation with postal vote but the late candidate. Thus I find your view wrong as it is contradictory to the statutes.

giufaz wrote:However, if the BoD intend however to gather the chance of exercising the postal vote, the Members could vote sending their choose written in a white sheet of paper, to be inserted in a white envelope, to be inserted in the shipping envelope.
If the statutes say YES and the BoD says NO, who would you believe? In the current situation I would trust statutes much more than the BoD.

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Re: Official candidates in Madrid

Post  drastis on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:42 am

12-4 The President, the Vice-Presidents and the General Secretary shall all be members of different National Associations, and all of them shall have different citizenships.

Regarding the above, I have a logical question (having been a programmer for many years in the past, makes you see algorithms everywhere...)

HOW CAN THIS WORK??

If there are more than one candidates from the same country, how can we decide who's excluded?? Is it a matter of chance, the one who gets elected first takes the place, the other one has a touch luck? In such a case the result would change, if we changed the order of places for which the Congress votes. And then, who decides about the order of votes?

An example: A and B are candidates from Neverland. A goes for Sports, B goes for Marketing. The vote for Sports Director takes place first, A is elected. Now, what happens with B? Can he be elected? And what is the special circumstance that would allow him to take the place? However, if the vote for Marketing had happened first, A would have been the unlucky one. Funny!

Any suggestions please?

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