FISTF website removed ?

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  kechris on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:37 am

nobody wouldnot vote new BoD in franfurt if the exBoD was succesfull.
DON'T FORGET.
when you lost the members voted against you because you are not good enough.
of course the next BoD was worst but all we need a good BoD , NO a better BoD than the last.
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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  djspider8 on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:06 am

I read Coppenolle message's .....
I remember that i spend my money for renew the domain's and the next BoD have to buy all the services directly from me.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  von K. on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:57 am

It's good that the site is operating again. Sad, though, that Catania didn't ask for help before it collapsed.

Anyway, Stefano put it up again, and deserves thanks!

Vincent, the election in Frankfurt was not a putscht. It was election, and people voted for Catania's group. The information about the election and promises given were in some points false, as we have seen afterwards (look at other topics), but the election was called according to the statutes.

You have to acknowledge that you and your Board did something wrong, if an EGM was called and you didn't win the vote. Regarding this, it is irrelevant that the next Board was practically in all possible ways worse (with hindsight it seems to be a fact).

djspider8 wrote:
I remember that i spend my money for renew the domain's and the next BoD have to buy all the services directly from me.

I probably didn't understand this correctly. Shouldn't FISTF pay you what you paid, and receive the domain? And then the new BoD takes care of it and the services.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  djspider8 on Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:39 am

von K. wrote:
I probably didn't understand this correctly. Shouldn't FISTF pay you what you paid, and receive the domain? And then the new BoD takes care of it and the services.
More and more time ago i leave FISTF for my work and other reason, the most important is the missing communications whit the associated. Some people talk about the web site that it is no professional and bla bla bla and ok i leave my job for the professional people how want make a super web site and finally i sing all the transfer from me to FISTF.
The bla bla bla people ...... do nothing but ..... we have a new Major ..... Very Happy
and ...... no new web site no communication .....
the domain expire and i'm the only manteiner ......... Rolling Eyes
Silvio is my friend, you know friendlyship?
He ask to me to renew the service and i renew whit my money.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  von K. on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:24 pm

djspider8 wrote:
von K. wrote:
I probably didn't understand this correctly. Shouldn't FISTF pay you what you paid, and receive the domain? And then the new BoD takes care of it and the services.
More and more time ago i leave FISTF for my work and other reason, the most important is the missing communications whit the associated. Some people talk about the web site that it is no professional and bla bla bla and ok i leave my job for the professional people how want make a super web site and finally i sing all the transfer from me to FISTF.
The bla bla bla people ...... do nothing but ..... we have a new Major ..... Very Happy
and ...... no new web site no communication .....
the domain expire and i'm the only manteiner ......... Rolling Eyes
Silvio is my friend, you know friendlyship?
He ask to me to renew the service and i renew whit my money.

Ok, I understand the frustration. But I meant when the new Board starts. It seems weird if you have to be the serviceman for the site. And you should not have to pay for the site. It's FISTF job to pay and do maintenance.

Anyway, as I wrote, you deserve thanks for putting it up again!


Last edited by von K. on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Frankfurt 2010 - More Putsch, than not

Post  Thossa on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:25 pm

@Vesa,
in Frankfurt, in my opinion, it was more than a putsch than not. Don´t forget: all collaborationists couldn´t wait at least eight months until legal congress. The EGM of Frankfurt is finaly not only a desaster of ideas and wasting of time, it is an expensive one. too. Very painful after all.
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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  von K. on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:45 pm

Thossa wrote:@Vesa,
in Frankfurt, in my opinion, it was more than a putsch than not. Don´t forget: all collaborationists couldn´t wait at least eight months until legal congress. The EGM of Frankfurt is finaly not only a desaster of ideas and wasting of time, it is an expensive one. too. Very painful after all.

Ok, I get your point, and agree on this. But to me that doesn't make it a putsch. It is maybe not honourable, nice behaviour, fair or something like that, but it was not illegal to call an EGM and elections, and vote for someone. Anyone can call it what they like, but a putsch is not the word in my opinion. But it makes no big difference what people call it, in the end.

What has happened after Frankfurt is another matter.

I just think that Vincent and the old Board should also be a little more self-critical and see that Frankfurt happened because too many people were unhappy, and felt they were not listened. Using strong words like putsch and forgetting the reasons (no matter what the personal opinion is) behind it all, is not good for the future of the FISTF. The same goes to those who are not self-critical about last year.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  Thossa on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:36 pm

Okay, let´s say "Putsch" is just a wonderful metaphor Very Happy How do you like "conspiracy absorption"?
However, I don´t know how many times Heinz, Vincent and me stated, we wasn´t free of mistakes. In the end we confessed, something was wrong. Compare this to the following persons. Nobody of them said "sorry", nore the already resigned members, neither the still goofy operating members. If you want, we are guilty only to make sure, the daily duties have to be done. But Heinz, Vincent, Fred and me wasn´t alone in the former BoD. This is being mistaken! Remember the BoD had some other names who are guilty, but they are not critized because they had deversity in interpration for being responsible in a FISTF-BoD: The other names are: Triantafillou, Walker, Spiteri, Capponi, Tagliaferri, Horta and Collins.

Sure, the request for an EGM wasn´t illegal, of course not. But as Catania wrote me in November 2009 why he needed a immediately EGM instead of a normal congress eight months later, was: he don´t want to wait that long. The countries who called for an EGM were Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Malta, England, plus Scotland and Wales, both thought, it wouldn´t be an EGM, but only a meeting without elections. Now look out for Wales & Scotland, where are they now. They left in silence. And the other countries? Do you really think the majority of players from Spain, Italy, Greece, France and Malta had big problems with the "Coppenolle BoD". Their leaders and speakers wanted to be BoD-members, because they thought it is easy handeling or something else. That´s the fact. Now they failed in a catastrophe and don´t have any ambitions to apologise for this in public...
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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:05 pm

I only can say that in the situations we were confronted with everybody would have done mistakes.
I also want to point out that the door for the associations always was open. They could tell us what we've done wrong or what they would wish to see, but nothing came, nobody from national associations supported the board and then some associations called for an EGM.
After seeing the problem the old board proposed changes, but it was too late, the associations wanted an EGM, so they got an EGM.
It is ok to say the old board failed, but it is not ok to tell those people they are not able to change their way of work to make it better, if they think to candidate a second time.
If some people prefer it to take another time the risk of totally new unexperienced people in FISTF work, it is ok too.
Of course I agree that we don't need only a better board than the actual one, because it is not difficult to do things better than they are actually.
We will see the success of the discussions here on 20th of february when the candidates hopefully will be presented officially.
I fear we will need some last minute candidates that elections even can take place in Madrid.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  von K. on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:01 am

Thossa wrote:Okay, let´s say "Putsch" is just a wonderful metaphor Very Happy How do you like "conspiracy absorption"?
However, I don´t know how many times Heinz, Vincent and me stated, we wasn´t free of mistakes. In the end we confessed, something was wrong. Compare this to the following persons. Nobody of them said "sorry", nore the already resigned members, neither the still goofy operating members. If you want, we are guilty only to make sure, the daily duties have to be done. But Heinz, Vincent, Fred and me wasn´t alone in the former BoD. This is being mistaken! Remember the BoD had some other names who are guilty, but they are not critized because they had deversity in interpration for being responsible in a FISTF-BoD: The other names are: Triantafillou, Walker, Spiteri, Capponi, Tagliaferri, Horta and Collins.

When I mentioned BoD members, I mean the whole BoD. What I meant was that it gives the wrong impression to talk about a putsch. It gives the impression of something else, than what happened. And Vincent's comment gave the impression of the BoD being ousted without a reason.

There was a reason, and EGM was called. I can understand that maybe no one could have made everything better. But it doesn't make it a putsch. It is normal to change when you're not happy. Like in politics.

I also don't accept Heinz' view in full. For example the americans (I know they are not members) have many times stated their disapproval of things, but things were not changed. So a normal reaction is to think someone else does it better.

Thossa wrote:Sure, the request for an EGM wasn´t illegal, of course not. But as Catania wrote me in November 2009 why he needed a immediately EGM instead of a normal congress eight months later, was: he don´t want to wait that long. The countries who called for an EGM were Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Malta, England, plus Scotland and Wales, both thought, it wouldn´t be an EGM, but only a meeting without elections. Now look out for Wales & Scotland, where are they now. They left in silence. And the other countries? Do you really think the majority of players from Spain, Italy, Greece, France and Malta had big problems with the "Coppenolle BoD". Their leaders and speakers wanted to be BoD-members, because they thought it is easy handeling or something else. That´s the fact. Now they failed in a catastrophe and don´t have any ambitions to apologise for this in public...

I don't believe that majority's views have much weight in representative democracy, which also FISTF and associations are. In smaller scale yes, but in bigger no. You can see it in western democracy in countries, cities etc.

The Scotland and Wales thing was not good, but I don't know the reasons for it. And of course we can all see what crap it has been after Frankfurt. Much worse than the previous BoD. But it was not my point.

Being ousted unceremoniously was not nice for Vincent and others, but it is more personal than a "crime" against FISTF. It is not good to always go back to the same personal issues in TF.

The "crime" against FISTF happened after Frankfurt.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:11 am

Today, I got the following spam in my mailbox:
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According to me, the promises made by Catania and his gang ("we are going to be professional" but they forgot to say how they would reach that) were not more credible than the one made by Mr.Mohamed Zakarin Very Happy

But unfortunately there are always people stupid enough to believe the most incredible promises... lol! lol! lol!
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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:35 am

The problem is/was, that it wasn't possible to have a real discussion.

von K. wrote:
I also don't accept Heinz' view in full. For example the americans (I know they are not members) have many times stated their disapproval of things, but things were not changed. So a normal reaction is to think someone else does it better.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:23 pm

I believe the americam case is not a good example. Because at the end, they still haven't said what they expect from FISTF.

It's a bit like the old subbuteo players who say "we don't like FISTF rules" but when you ask them "what don't you like in FISTF rules?", they are unable to anwer...
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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  von K. on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:59 pm

Ok, if it was so, then it is very difficult. I can clearly see the problematic personal issues and country-issues that make discussion difficult. However, it is not a one-way-street.

Heinz Eder wrote:The problem is/was, that it wasn't possible to have a real discussion.

von K. wrote:
I also don't accept Heinz' view in full. For example the americans (I know they are not members) have many times stated their disapproval of things, but things were not changed. So a normal reaction is to think someone else does it better.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  von K. on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:06 pm

Admin wrote:I believe the americam case is not a good example. Because at the end, they still haven't said what they expect from FISTF.

I think some things became clear when Paul Eyes wrote here last time. As an example the system of the World Cup, which makes it practically impossible for USA to take part. It's also something we finns dislike a lot, and which means that after taking part for a few years now, we find some other tournaments as much better value for money.

It is true that people don't always know exactly what is wrong. In these cases a good dialogue which is lead by asking good questions and with open mentality is the way to bring answers to surface. In FISTF I sense a lot of protective and attacking mentality, which kills dialogue and keeps answers hidden.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

Post  Tom Conway on Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:22 pm

von K. wrote:
Admin wrote:I believe the americam case is not a good example. Because at the end, they still haven't said what they expect from FISTF.

I think some things became clear when Paul Eyes wrote here last time. As an example the system of the World Cup, which makes it practically impossible for USA to take part. It's also something we finns dislike a lot, and which means that after taking part for a few years now, we find some other tournaments as much better value for money.

It is true that people don't always know exactly what is wrong. In these cases a good dialogue which is lead by asking good questions and with open mentality is the way to bring answers to surface. In FISTF I sense a lot of protective and attacking mentality, which kills dialogue and keeps answers hidden.

100% accurate.

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Re: FISTF website removed ?

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