Madrid, 02/11

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:03 am

Hey Vesa, don´t hide your light under a bushel, my friend.

I am not sure, that the majority of the italian players organised in FISCT second what Stefano de Francesco, sitting next to Enrico Corsa, said at the Rain-Meeting, as he declares, Italy will leave FISTF when we would have made elections in Rain.

Nevertheless,

A good order now is the main challenge for FISTF.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:24 am

Marketing has been a big problem in FISTF, and is the biggest challenge in the future. I really don't see many persons capable of doing this well. If we find a person who really can do this well, I don't care if he is the little green man from Mars.

The president doesn't need to be a statutes expert. Statutes are important, but that is why a they have to be written by a panel of analytically thinking people, that is only lead by a director or president.

Having consensus of all the BoD in decisions is not possible or even healthy. I also don't know what kind of person signs something he doesn't believe is correct, just because he is in the minority. He can accept democracy, but not change his mind. If the Board and the President do their work well, there is no need for "cleaning" the official voting on decisions. If the proposals and decisions are based on solid arguments, and can withstand criticism, then it's no problem if some director doesn't vote for the decision.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:32 am

Thossa wrote:I am not sure, that the majority of the italian players organised in FISCT second what Stefano de Francesco, sitting next to Enrico Corsa, said at the Rain-Meeting, as he declares, Italy will leave FISTF when we would have made elections in Rain.

If not, then they didn't do their job properly. If it was the will of the members, then it was correct action.

But the Presidents or representatives should not vote or act against the wishes of the majority.

Thossa wrote:A good order now is the main challenge for FISTF.

Yes. Without this nothing else can work.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:25 pm

If your part of the post quotes this chapter, I want to cearify it a bit more concrete.
I don't say that the decisions have to be without a vote against a proposal, and I also don't say that board members should change their mind only because they are in minority.
The only thing which shouldn't happen, that board members say in public it is nonsense and the board member didn't agree on it anyway, if some people start to critizize a decision in public.
That's for me to stand behind a decision unit as board. I also don't have a problem if results of votings are published, but I think there shouldn't be mentioned names to the votes.

Heinz Eder wrote:
In my opinion a board should stand unit behind its decision, undependent if you personally agree on the decision or not. The most important is that the board members know your opinion and internally I always said my opinion. maybe that's the reason why you think I change my opinion often, but normally I only change my opinion when people use good arguments.
von K. wrote:
Having consensus of all the BoD in decisions is not possible or even healthy. I also don't know what kind of person signs something he doesn't believe is correct, just because he is in the minority. He can accept democracy, but not change his mind. If the Board and the President do their work well, there is no need for "cleaning" the official voting on decisions. If the proposals and decisions are based on solid arguments, and can withstand criticism, then it's no problem if some director doesn't vote for the decision.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:31 pm

Hi everyone,

We have received confirmation of a delegation to the Madrid conference:

Italy will be present with:

Enrico Corso, president FISCT

Stefano De Francesco, VP FISCT

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:22 am

Who received the candidates Pierro?
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:31 am

kechris wrote:Who received the candidates Pierro?

Laughing Good question.
Let´s facing some facts. Since more than one month it is well-known to Mr. President, there will be an EGM coming soon with the wish of elections. Since one week the date and place of EGM is fixed.

But no agenda and no elections, no callout for candidates are published and announced right now.

It sucks!

I wouldn´t be too much surprised if this is payback-time for Silvio, because Piero and Stefano are two of his crew, who first left the BoD and betray him.

I don´t know what little plans Catania is making, but I fear not the best for FISTF, not the best for democracy and not to free FISTF from himself. I hope I will be wrong...
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:47 pm

kechris wrote:Who received the candidates Pierro?

No, the candidates have to send their letters to Catania.

Spain only deals with the logistics.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:45 pm

Is there a possibility for an internet connection and a "net meeting" for the congress?

For us there will be maximum 1 who can participate. And even for the 1 person the possibility to take part is not as high as we would like.

We finns would like to take part, naturally. But for a small federation, whose all possible participants have very small children, making this happen with such short notice is very complicated. (Facts, not excuses.)

But even if 1 of us could participate, it might be that another person would wish to take part through a computer.

So I'm asking Piero, if there is the possibility of participating via computer?

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:24 am

Because Fistf's site is down i propose the candidates to announce their name and the department which want in this site.
Maybe the admin can create a new topic locked and (only) all the candidate posts to be in this topic.

I cann't understand why Italy select Defrancesco as represantive. I read the last months many people having problem with him. Italy with 1000 plyers cann't find another person?
I think that this selection means that Italy don't care for the unity and for the rest countries.
When DE FRANCESCO did blackmail in Rain and Italy select again him i think that Italy wants split.

Iam thinking since last night and i cann't find any other reason.
I wrote that Vincent did a big mistake for the comment "persona non gratta" but the italian decision is "we don't care for the rest countries" Maybe the Italian BoD BELIEVE THAT iTALY CAN CONTINUE WALKING WITHOUT REST COUNTRIES.

SO WHY THEY SEND TWO MEMBERS IN MADRID. TO SHOW THEIR POWER?
I will continue thinking the reasons. If someone can help me i will be happy to hear him.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:46 pm

kechris wrote:
I cann't understand why Italy select Defrancesco as represantive. I read the last months many people having problem with him. Italy with 1000 plyers cann't find another person?

I think I know the reason. The italian association FISCT has a system that there is one director who officially takes care of the contacts to FISTF, and deals with FISTF matters.

I think this can not be changed before elections of FISCT even if many people would want it (hypothesis, I don't know what other italians think about this).

kechris wrote:I think that this selection means that Italy don't care for the unity and for the rest countries.
When DE FRANCESCO did blackmail in Rain and Italy select again him i think that Italy wants split.

De Francesco has said that it was president Corso who decided against elections in Rain. Only they know how it is. No one else was able to hear them discuss it in Rain.

I don't want to speak about my opinions for representatives, because countries can decide what they want.

However I don't believe anyone should say that Italy (as a whole) wants a split. Some persons do, some don't. However FISCT is representative democracy like FISTF (and western democracies). If this subject was not talked about before elections, then it's possible that all directors are for or against a split.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Piero, you sent an e-mail on wednsesday at 3.40 PM saying many things and which started by this:
AS PRESIDENT OF THE AFM:

- The AFM is not available to organize the congress in Madrid. On Sunday I will cancel hall & hotels bookings, restaurants and so on.
So what. Is there a meeting in Madrid or not???

The Catania sends this:
To: All Presidents
All Nations
Dear All,
EGM Agenda
While I take the opportunity to remind you to name your representatives for the EGM meeting to be held
in Madrid on the last weekend of February 2011, I am including the agenda for this meeting which will
start on Saturday 26th at 10.00am and will come to an end by not later than Sunday 27th at 1.00pm.
No representative will be accepted unless an accredidation is issued.
The agenda is as follows:
1. Introduction by Silvio Catania
2. Administrative Matters
a. Administrative report
b. Member Nations
c. Approval of member nations
d. Other administrative points
e. Approval of candidates for Election
f. Election
3. Financial Matters
a. Financial report pre January 2010
b. Financial report as from January 2010
4. Sport Matters
a. Calendar
b. Tournaments
c. Equipment
d. Rules
Truly in Sports
Silvio Catania
FISTF President
Si what? I believe this circular letter is a total joke. How can you say "Approval of member nations" or "Approval of candidates for Election"? Does it mean some member nations might not be member nations before the meeting? or some candidates might not have the right to be candidates?

It's really a lot of bullshit. Sorry to say that...
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:55 pm

Admin wrote:
The Catania sends this:
To: All Presidents
All Nations
Dear All,
EGM Agenda
While I take the opportunity to remind you to name your representatives for the EGM meeting to be held
in Madrid on the last weekend of February 2011, I am including the agenda for this meeting which will
start on Saturday 26th at 10.00am and will come to an end by not later than Sunday 27th at 1.00pm.
No representative will be accepted unless an accredidation is issued.
The agenda is as follows:
1. Introduction by Silvio Catania
2. Administrative Matters
a. Administrative report
b. Member Nations
c. Approval of member nations
d. Other administrative points
e. Approval of candidates for Election
f. Election
3. Financial Matters
a. Financial report pre January 2010
b. Financial report as from January 2010
4. Sport Matters
a. Calendar
b. Tournaments
c. Equipment
d. Rules
Truly in Sports
Silvio Catania
FISTF President

Well, yes, okay.... finally, after a thinking time of more than one month, it is an agenda. An agenda that certainly everyone can patch together in less than 15 minutes.

The reason for the EGM request was the main fact to make elections! That point is pretty cool hidden and leave us alone with important additional information. Just a few: How will be the procedere for the elections? How and when will the candidatutes presented? Who can vote in which way, etc.

All this is simply not good enough. No
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:04 pm

Two questions please
What is AFM?
Does mr Corso speak English?

Because i want to apologie to stefano if mr Corso took the decision for blackmail.
And after i will begin my comments to mr Corso. A blackmail in front of represantives of 15 countries is at least UNFAIR.

From today i will write everyday " do you like split? PROVE IT"
The new BoD must have 6 members. Three north and three south. All of them must be good user of English. All of them must have clear past. All of them to love the game more than chair. To have experience.

I don't know if EGM finally TAKE PLACE IN MADRID but the person who will try to stop fair elections he will "gain" a big enemy.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:32 pm

kechris wrote:Two questions please
What is AFM?
Does mr Corso speak English?

AFM is the spanish association.

I don't know about Corso's english.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:35 pm

The agenda, and especially the lack of an attachment giving information about procedures, was not what I expected.

The candidates and the members (if a new is not voted there) of course have to be known before the congress.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:27 pm

The President of the Spanish Football Association Board (AFM) has reserved rooms, meeting room, dinner, etc for the conference.

I said I was canceling the next Sunday because today:

1) we had no agenda of Congress.

2) some people, including Alan Collins, Thoss, Heinz, were talking of no doing the conference.

Having now reached the agenda of the meeting, and it seems that Congress will develop a regular basis I have confirmed with the hotel for all bookings.

If omeone need information and / or logistic support can contact me anytime.

Indeed, flights to Madrid not cost 400 euros. There are low cost airlines from Brusellas, London, Paris, Frankfurth, etc

I hope that the money is not an excuse for not coming .... because if someone does not come, after all the confusion that we have to have a new elections as ...

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:52 pm

Pierro you have right that everybody must go to EGM.

But there are only 15 countries- members so it was easy to ask all of them what is better for all.
Yes i saw the tickets costs 200e and needed 200e for hotel etc.
I cann't understand why the meeting will not take place in Mons one week later?
We can also play and more of represantives will travel to Mons.
I liked Alan Collins idea.
There are not Abramovic to travel to everyweekend in abroad and wifes are angry. The economic situation is difficult. But i think that responsible for this wrong decision is Catania. It is his last decision i think.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:07 pm

Kechris is right
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:03 pm

Well, Piero, as for your point 2) I must say, it isn´t right to list me with Alan & Heinz. I always said, as long as the EGM in Madrid wouldn´t have an agenda, it is better to cancel this.

Now the situation is another.

You must admit, on yesterday you was pissed off with Catanias delay with the agenda. Meanwhile Corso & De Francesco have signaled there coming, I would have done the same like you now. So, from your side, everything is done right. Relax.

Now you are fancying an new problem. After the delay, Catania presented us (sorry, actually only the presidents of member nations) an agenda, poor and counterproductive.

This is not the basis, people expected to be invited to Madrid.

Money shouldn´t be an excuse not to go for an EGM to Madrid. In this point I am next to you, Piero.
But this agenda, and especially the lack of an attachment giving information about procedures (ThankU Vesa) is an excuse not to go to Madrid.

This gives me again the feeling, Silvio Catania is playing for time, with persons, with risk to split FISTF only to save his iron butt. Nothing else.

I only can advise all Madrid-willing persons, in first stage AFM, Mr. Corso & De Francesco & my german DSTFB-colleagues, to force Catania with an short deadtime to give the missing details Vesa as already mentioned.

Madrid is at the edge to bring FISTF into the final desaster. Is it worth it?
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:08 am

Gentlemen,

1) A Mons I'm gonna play with my colleagues in Madrid Total Soccer. A club which president, a child of 5 years, can afford to pay for the trip to 9 players because, despite its limited ability to find 5 sponsors and has 15,000 of annual budget .. I have no intention of missing a minute of my trip with my friends to sit down and discuss the problem of FISTF.

2) In any case you can not convene a congress in the midst of a major. Is the demonstration that in too many players FISTF ...... and lacking leadership.

3) The President FISTF wanted to convene the congress to Malta, I offered to do in Madrid because I see it simpler than Malta.

4) I do not care procedures. I guess they will know in the next few days.

5) As of today, to my knowledge, there is no single candidate. THE DELEGATION THAT ONLY YOU HAVE CONFIRMED THEIR PRESENCE IS ITALY.
By the way, is two people in Italy it is the number allowed for the conference (there are people who do not know but want to be a manager FISTF .....)

6) And most importantly, you are interested in my opinion? No, then why you keep asking me? Talk to Catania and now this. My say just who will come and how I can help them feel more comfortable in this beautiful city where I live for 15 years.

7) 400 euros are the same as we paid to go to Frankfurth.

Cool a month away, but still not seen on this forum the candidates and official programs. I have seen, ideas privately, but I expected a flood of solutions.


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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:54 am

pierocapponi wrote:Gentlemen,

1) A Mons I'm gonna play with my colleagues in Madrid Total Soccer. A club which president, a child of 5 years, can afford to pay for the trip to 9 players because, despite its limited ability to find 5 sponsors and has 15,000 of annual budget .. I have no intention of missing a minute of my trip with my friends to sit down and discuss the problem of FISTF.
Point seeded, Piero. But mind, if everything would be prepared perfectly, elections could be make within the lunchtimebreak on Saturday in Mons, without unnecessary blabla - promised.

2) In any case you can not convene a congress in the midst of a major. Is the demonstration that in too many players FISTF ...... and lacking leadership.
No congress of course, but elections. Extraordinary circumstances needs extraordinary solutions

3) The President FISTF wanted to convene the congress to Malta, I offered to do in Madrid because I see it simpler than Malta.

4) I do not care procedures. I guess they will know in the next few days.
We will see

5) As of today, to my knowledge, there is no single candidate. THE DELEGATION THAT ONLY YOU HAVE CONFIRMED THEIR PRESENCE IS ITALY.
By the way, is two people in Italy it is the number allowed for the conference (there are people who do not know but want to be a manager FISTF .....)
Fred Vulpes is candidate as Financal Director. Proved written in this forum already!!!

6) And most importantly, you are interested in my opinion? No, then why you keep asking me? Talk to Catania and now this. My say just who will come and how I can help them feel more comfortable in this beautiful city where I live for 15 years.

7) 400 euros are the same as we paid to go to Frankfurth.

Cool a month away, but still not seen on this forum the candidates and official programs. I have seen, ideas privately, but I expected a flood of solutions.
Sure? Vulpes candidates for Finances, Coppenolle with restrictions but german support for Communication. Is this nothing? Okay, all of them are people who not live in southern europe. Okay. Probably you should specified your callout a bit?


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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:01 am

pierocapponi wrote: I have no intention of missing a minute of my trip with my friends to sit down and discuss the problem of FISTF.

2) In any case you can not convene a congress in the midst of a major. Is the demonstration that in too many players FISTF ...... and lacking leadership.

You don't want spend few hours by your trip or to stay 24 hours more in mOns but if we can't spend so easy 400e for a meeting is this lacking leadership?
And if meeting is a disaster like Rain? And Silvio say no elections. Who will pay back our money and time for a fail EGM?

Personally i love table soccer and i want to help FISTF. I will not be candidate (because if you, me, Stefano and Vulpes sit around a table to discuss, i am sure that the table will understand more than the persons. It is big risk for this situation to spend money without agenda. I hear that you or catania sent all papers and invitation to Koutroumanos. Nobody in Greece has official invitation. So you will do EGM with an illegal president. So the EGM WILL BE ILLEGAL.

pierocapponi wrote: 4) I do not care procedures. I guess they will know in the next few days.
8)a month away, but still not seen on this forum the candidates and official programs.
Maybe the candidates want the procedures. No candidates mean no elections no BoD no EGM no FISTF? I WANT TO BE SURE BEFORE SPEND MONEY FOR A MEETING.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:12 am

Yes, there are many problems still, and with the FISTF site cancelled we don't have any channel for official information for all.

It is extremely disappointing and sad. I really can only agree with Kostas, that at this moment getting tickets would be risky.

Thossa wrote:
pierocapponi wrote:
Cool a month away, but still not seen on this forum the candidates and official programs. I have seen, ideas privately, but I expected a flood of solutions.
Sure? Vulpes candidates for Finances, Coppenolle with restrictions but german support for Communication. Is this nothing? Okay, all of them are people who not live in southern europe. Okay. Probably you should specified your callout a bit?

Thossa, I can understand Piero very well. Even with two candidates (is Vincent's candidacy official?) it is not very much. And from these two we have no information. This is why Piero has reason to feel surprised.

Another thing. I don't like the style of always referring to reasons like north or south no matter what the subject is. Please, Thossa, I'm quite sure that you can see what Piero means and that it has nothing to do with southern candidates. This just creates unnecessary tension.

Why don't FISTF ever do these things as video conferences. It would be much easier, and would save time and money. As I said, it is not always about money, but also families, work etc that make it difficult for many people to travel on short notice.

But I do appreciate the work Piero has done in organising this.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:00 am

Yes, i said a few times I'm ready to take in charge the communication department (but I count on the help of Thossa, Thomas and Luis) or the sports department (but I know some people think I'm not experienced enough) but I put restrictions because there are people I will not accept as "colleagues". Sorry if it seems arrogant but after so many years in charge, I know working with some people is a big loss of time and the way to go to another disaster so if I don't have the right partners, I prefer to do nothing.

PS: I don't want to be in the Board for the pride or anything but just because after so many years of work, everything has been destroyed in one year and it's my duty to work again.
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