Madrid, 02/11

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:17 am

Heinz Eder wrote:@vesa
do you understand me better now? Crying or Very sad

Well, I don't think that a reaction of one or two persons makes a difference. Also for you, the mentioning of your name, got you to think about it.

This was my intention, to create interest for the question. There were many names, like Olivier and his commission, but none from Italy and Spain. I dropped names, but leaving the list always open for other names. People have said for a year now that Coppenolle is the best for communication. It creates huge pressure for anyone who wants to do that. But it was not a problem. I just mentioned names which are known in TF and which I find interesting based on what I've seen, heard and read. Maybe it creates an interest towards for example Buzzi (just an example), and people find him suitable, and everyone asks him to candidate, which he wouldn't have done otherwise.

I also, as a player from a country far from easy access to FISTF events, would like to hear some names, so that I could find out about them. I also have seen many interesting persons in the italian forum, who could do some very good work for FISTF in right positions (I'm not talking only about being directors, but commissions and other help). And I'm sure most people who don't follow that forum don't know about some of them. In my mind it would be good to know about people who can be of help.

I honestly don't see this as a big problem. I don't put anyone ahead of someone else, just because his name is mentioned as part of a question.

We also have so little time, and no other media, that we have to throw names up. That is, if we really want the best people. The best don't always announce themselves, or even think about it.

This is how I see it. But I can somehow understand your way of thinking.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:23 am

Thossa wrote:
FISTF is still in a stranglehold of Catania, even when he has nobody beside him. Since yesterday we know the door between him and Alan Collins is closed as well, but Collins still safes FISTF money. The FISTF-boat is since last year in stormy weather, but I am sure it will not sink before Madrid 02/11, when a new BoD is elected. So, I don´t see the need to reunited the old Coppenolle-team now for a few weeks Wink

But who will chair the EGM? Who will receive the participation information? Who will make the agenda? Who will make all other arrangements?

The first question is important because it was a disaster in Rain with Catania as chairman of the meeting. He didn't have any idea of how to do it properly.

Also the meeting requires an impartial secretary who will not take part on the discussion. From Rain the minutes were very poor with wrong and misleading information and chronology. It is extremely importat, that it will be clear what was discussed and decided.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:39 am

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
You write lots and lots of extensive posts everyday and you are not the only one. I have no time or pacience to read it all.

This is one of the problems when we talk about big decisions and the work of the Council. Luis is not the only one (as I have told about the Council, and the need to have less conversation there). This is nothing personal towards Luis or anyone else. It is a fact, and understandable. Most people don't have the time, patience or interest. This is why the work has to be cut to smaller pieces with commissions (and for the Council).

However, I only see people who have the time and patience to read (and to try to understand) opinions as good directors for FISTF. Doing the website or ranking is different, but being for example a sports director would be impossible.

I also write long posts. But the reason is that I try to argumentate and answer questions so that things become clear and questions answered with one post. It is inevitable that posts become long, especially as there is no time to clean them (like when writing officially). I think the same reason goes for Heinz.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:04 am

Heinz Eder wrote:
The board has to consist of 6 directors+president
President/Sports Director/Finanical Director/Marketing Director/Communication Director/Financial Director/General Secretary
.

Your answer was wrong Heinz. You wrote twice the financial director. So we have 6 chairs no 7.
I think that the ex-BoD did mistakes with the statutes.

I also think that the nations voted last year against ex-BoD members because they failed. Of course the new BoDwas a big disaster. But we haven't only two selections. The new or the ex BoD. We want new faces in departments. I CANN'T BELIEVE THAT there are 2000 players but only the same 10-15 good enough for candidates.

I think that Luis-Felippe and Vesa are good selections. Yes, Vesa's posts are long, but the more of his comments are correct. Luis is a character with open mind and very straight. He can select alone which department is closer in his mind.

Heinz was not good sport director. Why to select him again now for president? Last year was close to Coppenolle this year was fan of new BoD and now is fan to change the BoD. Why he changes opinion so often?

The best solution for president is mr Janus Gersie. If he insists to refuse the chair i prefer Lenz or Lauder. Both of them are servant of the game and their past is PERFECT.

We have one month for EGM. We must informed the candidates and their plans for the future. No with long posts, i hope.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:54 am

Interestingly after a year's calling for elections, nobody is to submit

Heinz is the correct person just why is sufficiently Ant to change your mind when someone he motivates and explains the why... And also has defendere force his ideas when they are fair and argued.

It is also important to remember that this is not a forum for the Presidents and expressed judgment here is staff and not of the country of the person making it.

We have already proposed a possible new board composition:

President: Eder

Secretary: Busing or Vesa

Comunication: Coppenolle

Sport: an Italian (the FISCT proposed Alessandro Toni, former responsible sport FISCT, Pisa President. person well known and respected in Italy, the Italian "Granados").

Finance: Mike Parnaby

Marketing: "South" someone. (had proposed to Jose Crlos Guerrero, vice President AFM, but has many problems working at the moment).
We are looking for another solution.

We all agree that the commissions we must involve to more people and possible countries

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:20 pm

OK. We don't need elections anymore, because Mr.Capponi already chose the new Board. Laughing Laughing Laughing
We need more and new names, please. Wher are they ? Question

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:38 pm

Last year your proposals for BoD members all failed.
So why you think that now your proposals will have success?

For marketing someone South? The criteria for marketing is the country? The sun of Meditterannean is good for the marketing?

You use 2 words for every name-proposal. Without explanations.
But for the more important department (sport) you used about 25 words and a extra name(Granados) to describe your proposal (Toni). If you propose Tilgner or Aggelinas you didn't need two lines.

I remember that i read in past that finance department is better to have director a person who lives in a country with EURO. I don't know if it is right. I do a question.

Please you have only 2-3 years experience in table soccer. There are persons with 20-30 years in the game. I want to hear their proposals.

p.s your BoD had 7 members (catania president-collins finance - koutroumanos communication- defrancesco sport - tagliaferi secretary and garnier or capponi marketing). I cann't find the seventh department. Can you help me?

Thanks
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:40 pm

Be cool Felippe.
Pierro did proposals. No problem with proposals.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:55 pm

If we "need an Italian", I believe Antonello Rodriquez would be a very good choice. As Secretary, he could have influence on the FISTF decisions, he speaks french and english, he has good relations with many people and he knows the international situation very well. All "advantages" that someone like Alessandro Toni does not have...
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:57 pm

Talks, mails, programmes, names, they are proposing in other venues and not in this forum.

Names written here already are are discussed from several days ago with the people that will vote and who have worked for this new Congress.

Speaking of Toni and Granados we can write two books, you don't have to prove anything to anyone in the history of table football. But I repeat, if quiereis know who are just ask and I answer.

Why marketing to someone from the South? Why casually unique manufacturers, sellers, producers and artisans of football table (Zeugo, Total Soccer, Profibase, Astrobase, Extreme Works) that are trying to help the movement are southern. And they are the first sponsors of our game.

You are trying to do is a board of consensus. A board of transition that receive most votes more great potential.


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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:58 pm

I think everyone agrees with me, there is no alternative to elections in February. And if Heinz is willing to go for the job as President, it fine to me. But the greatest mistake we could do now, is to con him some names / persons to work in a BoD together, which probably do not really want to work on a voluntary basis.

I can not speak for Vesa, but for me. I am not really amused to see my name for a probably candidate as General Secretary, because nobody asked me already, what I think about it.

As I saw Vincents agreement to be candidate as communication director I was delighted, because he is able to collect all results, and writing newsletters etc. I offered him my support with the DSTFB-Internetteam for a new FISTF website. That´s the facts at the moment for my person. Not less, not more.

And at least we need a spiritus rector for the elections. This man should collect the candidates who really say: Yes, I will candidate for this or that job and here are my ideas and views.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:04 pm

So that Italy to propose an Italian not? Do if Italy Galeazzi, with the support of professionals as Papini and Gazzoldi, for example, someone would have something to say?

Italy was resits much to accept a responsible sports... come from a country that does not want to that table football is a sport....

Well done comunication and new ideas for the future can be a winning formula.

That is why Heinz, Vincent and Italy support in the same board would be very important.

They are only proposals.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:10 pm

pierocapponi wrote:Talks, mails, programmes, names, they are proposing in other venues and not in this forum.

Names written here already are are discussed from several days ago with the people that will vote and who have worked for this new Congress.

Speaking of Toni and Granados we can write two books, you don't have to prove anything to anyone in the history of table football. But I repeat, if quiereis know who are just ask and I answer.

Why marketing to someone from the South? Why casually unique manufacturers, sellers, producers and artisans of football table (Zeugo, Total Soccer, Profibase, Astrobase, Extreme Works) that are trying to help the movement are southern. And they are the first sponsors of our game.

You are trying to do is a board of consensus. A board of transition that receive most votes more great potential.

Absolutely not. It's not a Board of consensus. We need a board who are able to work with each other and people who are able to work. Sorry but to say that we "need an Italian" is a total joke. In the history of FISTF (1993-2010), all Italians in the Board have been failures, Catania has been in the Board 2 times and it was a double failure, same with Triantafillou and Koutromanos (the only 2 Greeks) and Capponi (the only spanish). At the end, it's not a joke or racism to say that the people from the North are more efficient to work for FISTF.

Thossa as communication director would be a great choice.

With Thossa at this job, I'm even ready to become sports director. I think not many people have my experience...
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:11 pm

Piero, just one question: what has Italy ever done for table football outside Italy? Nothing!
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:11 pm

Thossa, sorry, I made your name why he thought of having read here you were available. Same as with Heinz.

I agree with your statement.

For concerning Madrid I can help in all concerning logistics, in the best possible way. Also the AFM is available (have yesterday a meeting to discuss this) to faclitar the arrival of representatives.

But I can only refer to logistics, naturally.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Heinz Eder on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:21 pm

sorry, was my fault that I mentioned the financial twice, you are right.
As it seems it is not possible to explain you my reasons for working with Stefano in the sports department. Are all the members of the sport commission included Olivier fans of the ciurrent board too? I did nothing different, only with less people. I wasn't part of any bod's decisions I only wanted to help to prepare the season, which should only be something positive for the players. I only wasn't part of the personal comments here, because it is not my way to discuss additionally I tried to stay on the side of the statutes, which wasn't popular most times maybe.
As it seems it is not possible for you to make a difference bewteen personal and working matters. Yes I was and I'm still close to Vincent, but that doesn't mean that I have always the same opinion, the same way Vincent didn't always share my opinions. It seems to be important for you to know who is having what opinion in a board only to divide people, so I'm not surprised of your opinion about me, because I'm totally differently thinking.
In my opinion a board should stand unit behind its decision, undependent if you personally agree on the decision or not. The most important is that the board members know your opinion and internally I always said my opinion. maybe that's the reason why you think I change my opinion often, but normally I only change my opinion when people use good arguments.
all the names mentioned here can make good things for FISTF that's out of question. I don't have a problem if I'm not part of it, I don't press myself on the board.

kechris wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:
The board has to consist of 6 directors+president
President/Sports Director/Finanical Director/Marketing Director/Communication Director/Financial Director/General Secretary
.

Your answer was wrong Heinz. You wrote twice the financial director. So we have 6 chairs no 7.
I think that the ex-BoD did mistakes with the statutes.

I also think that the nations voted last year against ex-BoD members because they failed. Of course the new BoDwas a big disaster. But we haven't only two selections. The new or the ex BoD. We want new faces in departments. I CANN'T BELIEVE THAT there are 2000 players but only the same 10-15 good enough for candidates.

I think that Luis-Felippe and Vesa are good selections. Yes, Vesa's posts are long, but the more of his comments are correct. Luis is a character with open mind and very straight. He can select alone which department is closer in his mind.

Heinz was not good sport director. Why to select him again now for president? Last year was close to Coppenolle this year was fan of new BoD and now is fan to change the BoD. Why he changes opinion so often?

The best solution for president is mr Janus Gersie. If he insists to refuse the chair i prefer Lenz or Lauder. Both of them are servant of the game and their past is PERFECT.

We have one month for EGM. We must informed the candidates and their plans for the future. No with long posts, i hope.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:21 pm

Admin wrote:Piero, just one question: what has Italy ever done for table football outside Italy? Nothing!

Nothing? If tomorrow the Italians leave travel international table soccer... dies immediately.

Your have all the discloses Vincent, few Italians travel each year out of Italy to play? who going to Paris, Mons, Barcelona, Vienna, Malta, Milton Keynes etc.etc etc?

Do few Belgians have been playing at Italy, Spain, Malta, Greece, Portgual, Austria, Finland, UK, in last them decade tournament FISTF? And Germans? Calculate it?

Which are players who pick up rental cars and aircraft to play and who only plays tournaments 200 km?

Vincent please "do" is not written in the forum...



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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:26 pm

Heinz has just explain to all of the why should be the President....

Incidentally, in the last Board Stefano Tagliaferri wasn't the Secretary General, he was the Secretary of the board without vote in the Board. the Secretary General is Garnier.

Official members were 6. the President, Secretary, sport, marketing, finance and communication.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:07 pm

...and Garnier did absolutely nothing... (as expected by those who know him)

The fact that many italian players are travelling abroad does not give the right to Italy to dictate how FISTF should be.

If Belgians (for instance) don't travel that much abroad, it's mainly because:
- we have a great national circuit
- many players have other priorities in life (when you have a family, you have to choose which tournaments you can afford to play. To leave a family for 3 days to play 3 games in the other corner of Europe seems ridiculous for many people and it's understandable, i think)
- because many tournaments abroad are not attractive.

There were more Belgians in Berlin than Italians, i think. But there are 3 times more "active players" in Italy than in Belgium. So your reasoning isn't very clever...
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:19 pm

Today, the german BoD in DSTFB have had a telephone conference. All in all we agree with Heinz as candidate for FISTF-President, because he is not too much offensive in all cases and he is the only one in our eyes, who is able to solve the big problems with FISTF statutes in a correct way. That´s what he could really be important for.

In the past we learned a lot from the italians in case of promotion of tournaments. We think it would be very good to see an italian in the Marketing Department to bring FISTF in this case forward. In our opinion somebody else from one of the southern european countries can join a new BoD as General Secretary. Fred Vulpes candidates as Financal Director again.

At least, we don´t need names, but persons, who comes up and declare their wish to candidate with a view of how they think to work. The last thing we need are people like Garnier, Triantafillou (Vincent have already named a lot of dummies of the past) who lost the interest in a FISTF job as soon as they are elected.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:31 pm

pierocapponi wrote:
Nothing? If tomorrow the Italians leave travel international table soccer... dies immediately.

Pierro i was the more fanatical supporter of total soccer in Greece.
But stop plese these comments. You confuse your job with our hobby.
Italian is great market but and the rest europe will be great market.

Admin wrote:
I'm even ready to become sports director. I think not many people have my experience...

Sport department need experience in tournaments and on pitches. No in laptops and P.C.
Have you ever take part in W.C? Have you ever travel for tournament more than 500km?
Your advantages are for secretary and communication director. No for the other places.

Antonello Rodrigues is a really a good choice. Low profile and with big experience.
I think the marketing director will be a person no from the same country of more producers. Thossa maybe.

Admin wrote:, Catania has been in the Board 2 times and it was a double failure, same with Triantafillou and Koutromanos (the only 2 Greeks) and Capponi (the only spanish).
Thossa wrote: The last thing we need are people like Garnier, Triantafillou (Vincent have already named a lot of dummies of the past) who lost the interest in a FISTF job as soon as they are elected.

I am sorry. It isn't the same occasions all the names. Catania Capponi Koutroumanos was not members of table soccer community for a long time. Garnier was very good organiser before many years. We must don't forget the past. Triantafyllou everytime care at first for playing. You asked by center forward to play goalkeeper. In past (until now) i have big differents in our opinions with Triantafyllou but who asked him to work in wrong position?
If Mourinio ask by Ronaldo to play center back and he score 2 own goal who is responsible? If coach ask by player to play in other position the player must respect the decision of coach.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:47 pm

Well Kostas, in the end it only counts which people wants to candidate. If we will have more candidates for a job the decision will come in a democratical way. Other person (presidents of the associations) will decide who is probably the best or not.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  kechris on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:07 pm

you have right. I agree with you 100%

p.s who is responsible to select the names of candidates?
Who will be the president of EGM?
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:33 pm

kechris wrote:you have right. I agree with you 100%

p.s who is responsible to select the names of candidates?
Should be the job of the last two from the BoD, but at the moment we have a funny, tricky situation. On the other hand Alan Collins proclaimed, he is the only legitimated BoD-member, because he is the last BoD member of the old BoD (Team Coppenolle). In his version Catania lost the legitimation because Koutromanos wasn´t really allowed to vote for Greece at the EGM in Frankfurt. The complete elections of January 2010 are void in his opinion. If you think Catania is still legitimated, you must believe in him and in a success of a EGM in Madrid in February. But as you have already learned, you can not trust in what Catania is doing. Till today it seems, he is far away from to annonce elections in an agenda. If he will do it in the next few days, it is not saved, that he will cancel it again (like in Rain). But one thing should be clear. Once again this will not save his chair. I don´t know what he thinks he really is. The godfather of FISTF? He is probably the most hated person in FISTF for the moment and I am not sure he noticed this in his view. Maybe he could have an idea, he wouldn´t win an election Wink

Who will be the president of EGM?
If the FISTF-president is there, he could be the first choice. But will he be there? Alan Collins already said, he pays no bill for Silvio Catania from FISTF money for Madrid. So, Catania must fly and stay in Madrid with his own money... only to be voted out of the office. A costly affair, isn´t it?
If he missed to go to Madrid, normaly somebody of the participants of that EGM will be chosen by the majority.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:38 am

Catania was a disaster in Rain as the chairman/president of the meeting, and it ruined the meeting. He didn't have a clue about how to lead a meeting or congress, and he was also the person who wrote the minutes at the same time.

I hope the EGM votes for the chairman in Madrid. And I hope there is a secretary who is not a representative at the same time.

Thossa wrote:Other person (presidents of the associations) will decide who is probably the best or not.

You are wrong a little bit. Presidents (or representatives) cast the vote officially, but they should represent their association members if they work correctly. So the decision is really by the associations. It's a big difference, in fact.

Thossa wrote:
I can not speak for Vesa, but for me. I am not really amused to see my name for a probably candidate as General Secretary, because nobody asked me already, what I think about it.

For me my name was just another one thrown in the air for people to chew on. I don't care if I'm asked, in TF I am a public person in forums, and can be mentioned. I don't find any concrete importance in a name mentioned.

However, Finland would never (at least as long as I am in our board) announce official support to anyone publicly, until we know all the candidates. Everything I write here is my personal opinions, if I don't write otherwise.

Giving official support to person 1 now, and then realising that a better candidate represents himself would create an awkward situation. And the same goes vice versa, with a bad candidate, if there becomes none better.

This time anyone can candidate without the permission of his association, so no one at the moment knows who will be candidates.

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