Madrid, 02/11

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:49 am

Thossa wrote:Funny information from Madrid beside the elections: Silvio Catania is now "persona non grata". Just a marginal note Cool

By who? Was this the EGM or the board. was it unanimous?

Funny how quickly loyalty is forgotten. I thought less than a week ago a compromise was not possible because most of the elected board members wanted to be loyal to Catania. They also praised his achievements and the price he got in Malta. What has changed?

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:58 am

Antonello Rodriquez wrote:To promote a "New federation" is simply a sick point of view.

It was not sick when it was discussed in other forums not long ago? Just checking if things are dealt with equally.

Good luck on your 500 euros by the way. Shame about you last summer holiday, which was wasted by some persons not telling you the truth if I understood correctly. Why did you complain? Or why do you complain in general (I've seen you complain a lot), if it is not allowed after all that happened?

Antonello Rodriquez wrote:Let's build togheter a new FISTF and stop complaining please.

Antonello, the building of a new FISTF now lies totally in the hands of the people elected. They are the ones who have to do the work and earn the respect and trust of others, and build a unified FISTF. Other presidential candidates published programs and were open and honest about their candidacies from the start, believing in democratic and positive elections. We are still waiting for the program of Piero and practically all others elected.

Stop complaining? Please, I held you in higher regard, but it seems I was wrong. Have you got any idea of what went on behind the scenes the last few days? You don't find that info on the italian forum or here. i talked with Stefano De Francesco on thursday for 1,5 hours and he never gave me any hint of a play like this that was up someones sleeve. Complaining, why would we?

Criticising many events that went on the last few days is the right of every normal minded person who has any sense of democracy and fairness. And the fact that many candidacies were only made public today, really gives a truck load of reasons for criticism. I will just continue on that road, which I have always taken, criticism based on argumentation.

Antonello, first of all, tell us what happened to the telephone voting promised by Laurent Garnier, and why was that not used even for checking the non-arriving postal votes of Finland and Austria. Why was Greece not allowed to vote? What about the membership fee payments by persons who then acted as delegates also?

In fact, the sole fact that a Capponi, who was not a candidate for any post when we sent the letter, then became a presidential candidate and in fact a President, was the man we had to send those letters to, is a testimony of the mickey mouse -democracy that is FISTF. How do we now the letters did not arrive. He did know there were votes against him as president. We would never have agreed to send them to his name if we knew the situation.

I also expect full closure which carries legally through the last week, the information about the elections, and all that happened regarding voting rights etc.

As a board member of a paying member I expect a lot from FISTF, and I expect Piero to deliver. Starting now with his program and especially a plan for unity.

But I expect Piero to publish his program for unifying the FISTF on SUNDAY, because Markus and I (stupid bastards) did it EVEN BEFORE the elections.[/b] As in democracy it is normal to do it before the elections.

So, Piero, the ball is at your court now. Let's see your game in open. We are waiting for you, but I would not be holding my breath.

p.s. Piero, I don't want to read any visions. Just tell us how you will unify the FISTF.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Antonello Rodriquez on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:01 am

I repeat that is sick to promote a new federation, now that elections are done.

What has to do the 500 euros of europa league with my summer holydays? What you mean?
Mine was a protest and not a complaining. Then when i start an argument i always make a proposal as alternative.
If you read the statute, elections have been made following the rules. Pheraps you don't like the persons elected, but they had all the rights to be elected.
Just wait for the official report and see what has happened before to put a sentence about what has happened.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  maxischn on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:18 am

sorry but it's the most stupid thing to say "it has been done according to the statutes, so it's fair and ok"

what if i play tablesoccer according to the rules and shoot on your hand to get an penalty kick.... and that 20 times in a game.... it's ok for the rules, but is it fair? and would you accept it?
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:02 am

At the end, you hear things such as "De Francesco offered Vesa to be General Secretary", "Piero asked Vincent if he's fina with the idea to have Stefano as sports director" or "if Vincent doesn't vote for Stefano as sports director, Piero will not be candidate for anything".

Is it democracy?

Democracy means candidates are announced (if possible 1 or 2 days before the elections) and all associations have a possibility to vote.

This was note the case.

There was too much corruption involved.

Because of that it's impossible to trust the people who are in the Board.

This Board is already a lost cause.

Now it's clear that the fantastic dup Capponi-De Francesco has become the ENEMY NUMBER 1 of the whole table football community because they believe they are over the laws!
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  von K. on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:16 pm

Antonello Rodriquez wrote:I repeat that is sick to promote a new federation, now that elections are done.

If a federation does not fulfill it's purpose for many people, there is nothing wrong if they want to seek an alternative. The 1st alternative is to levae the federation. The 2nd step is to be interested in creating something to have international activity.

I don't see anything sick in that. It is just logical.

Do you really only see the sickness in doing that afterwards, when there is knowledge of the situation? But you don't see any sickness of using that for politics before the elections?

Antonello Rodriquez wrote:What has to do the 500 euros of europa league with my summer holydays? What you mean?
Mine was a protest and not a complaining. Then when i start an argument i always make a proposal as alternative.

You protested, but we complain? Really. Can you please argumentate the difference with some examples. I see no difference.

My words about the money and your holidays for promoting World Cup in Rome were not well thought of, and born out of frustration to read the reactions of for example you. They were meant as an example that you also complain (or protest).

Many people here had argumentated alternatives before the EGM and there is also argumentated criticism of the whole process.

Antonello Rodriquez wrote:If you read the statute, elections have been made following the rules. Pheraps you don't like the persons elected, but they had all the rights to be elected.

In football you can score a goal when the goalkeeper is injured on the ground. It is according to the rules. But there are things called as norms. You clearly have no idea of the things behind the curtains before the elections. If you follow this forum, you will here about them. If you read the italian forum, you most probably won't.

As I have said before, my personal like or dislike of persons is irrelevant. I saw a process that pigs would find laughable if someone called it open democracy.

And in my opinion as a relative outsider following many forums is that this was certainly something that the FISTF did not need in this time. You can see that from the reactions.

In this context it is irrelevant if a law was not broken. FISTF got broken because of the selfishness of many people.

Antonello Rodriquez wrote:Just wait for the official report and see what has happened before to put a sentence about what has happened.

I can very well criticise what happened during last week with for example General Secretary promising telephone voting, but when we asked that as our (and perhaps austrian) votes did not arrive through post we could use that, we got no answer. And still this same Garnier was elected as General Secretary.

I have seen too many things happening last week, and I need no confirmation about anything, because I have witnessed them with my own eyes.

I will be interested to read the report (was there an impartial secretary to make notes as I asked beforehand?). I will judge that afterwards. But it has got nothing to do with many things that have been criticised here.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:25 am

My summary of last weekend is in contrast to the italian forum not so good Wink

The fact we have almost two italians in the new BoD isn´t my problem. It is more the fact, the new president was already two times in a former BoD and he always quits his job within a few months because of different reasons. Another problem is and will be the Sports Director. He has lost it´s credibility within the last 12 months. He disenchant himself and I fear it will be hard for him to win back lost trust.

Four out of six responsible persons of the Catania-era are now still in charge - plus Fred Vulpes as one of the Coppenolle-era = no fresh blood, only old names with some doubtful reputation. Co-responsible for all the abuses. How can anybody think things will now getting better?

No communication director. We have NO communication director at the moment. The fact it is now told only because Vincent didn´t gave a written form of his non-accepting of the eletion prooves only how irresponsible the EGM acted, beside the doubtful arrangements with the votes.

Sorry, folks, but FISTF not only deserves a better re-start, it was mandatory. Now we are facing a false start par exellence.

And I bet I am right. If this new BoD will fail sooner or later, the mainreason for it will be only all the critics, but not the BoD.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:42 am

To whom it may concern

As you can imagine I am disappointed about the results of the elections because it was my idea to call for an EGM and asking some countries if they would like to support this idea. It will take me some time to lick my wounds.

I would like to point out the following: we got what we deserved. In advance - due to several circumstances and reasons - no deals were possible and/or made.

Some countries were even not able to bundle power.

Giulio played an important role during the whole election process.

Every member nation had the possibility of being part of this historical meeting in Madrid.

And maybe not everything went as it should (even though I personally had the feeling of a democratic procedure) ... but it is up to others to contest decisions or not.

And to clarify something I could read here in the forum: I DID NOT SAY TO SUPPORT THE NEW BOARD. BUT I EVEN DID NOT SAY THE CONTRARY. I JUST SAID NOTHING !

I only stated that I will support Fred in international communication (translation english/french-german).

Yes, the new board would like to see me as the Head of the DC. We will first have a german board meeting (will happen when we received the financial report Alan promised to send asap - I think latest next week) to discuss the output and impacts of the weekend before I will decide.

I leave this statement as it is. Each and everybody is invited to read between the lines.

Janus Gersie

P.S. On sunday I already could see some of the things the new board is going to publish/implement in the near future.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  drastis on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:54 am

Only a few words about the matter.

The whole process of the elections was unacceptable. Two members of FISTF BoD acted as delegates of their countries which is against the statutes. Two nations were represented by people who paid a few hundred Euros to secure the representation (a huge shame!!). Late candidacies were allowed, while they shouldn't. The "winner" side did not bother to find a proper candidate for Marketing and also they did not take care to have an alternative solution for Communication, while they knew that Vincent was not going to continue working with them.

And one last thing which is totally personal, but proves that the whole thing was setup and wicked. Two days before the election I received an email, sent by Laurent Garnier, in which he told me that he was going to retire his candidacy in my favour, and he offered to help me in my new role as General Secretary of FISTF. Two days later, this person was elected General Secretary.

PS Giufaz you pretended to be the safeguard of legality in Madrid, instead you took another path in the meantime. I am totally disappointed by you personally, if there was a serious reason to act like that, I honestly can't see it.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:12 pm

Apart from Titi, Janus and Mr Pezzi, I don't think there was willingness to have democracy and good faith respected. The fact Greece was not allowed to vote (it's too easy to say no greek vote for not offending Papa and Koutromanos) and nations such as Austria, Finland, Portugal and the netherlands didn't vote in the 2 round of the elections are enough to say this elections are just a big joke. No credit at all to those who were elected without respecting the basic rules of fair-play...

There is no place for honest and fair people in this Board (too bad for Fred Vulpes...)
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:32 pm

Lorenzo I want to take your post as an initial to write some things.
I didn't follow the congress on the week-end, i didn't comment posts and mails in the last days before the congress and I hoped for a good solution, but NOW I want to write about those days.

Lorenzo I'm sorry, but I'm shocked about your post. Especially about the part that 2 countries can offer the chair of president to somebody, who is not candidate. Did anybody of the involved people think one minute about the feeling of Markus, Vesa or Alan?
Is it normal that people of other countries pay membership fees for at least 1 association?

I'm sorry but it is not enough to blame peope for the result of Madrid, especially if they have to take a part of that responsibility. To complain that Leonidas is on the board again is a joke and those people who complain about that should think first about their alternative. It was one of the "biggest jokes" to hear people saying the congress has to be used to "get rid" of Silvio and Leonidas and then 1 week before the elections there was only 1 candidate for marketing available who was one of those 2 names.

I'm ready to take more blame now by writing that, but without rules it is not possible to make elections, those who said we only need other people to get FISTF back on the right track and that's much more important than having new statutes at the moment, should ask themselves if they are still on the right track. The elections are more than questionable out of different reasons already mentioned here and in some other threads so I won't repeat them.

Those who signed a letter for an EGM should ask themselves if it is not too late to look for candidates one week before the Congress.
All involved peope should ask themselves, if it was a good choice to look for candidates without considering the other side till 1 week before the congress.
All involved people should ask themselves if 1 week was enough time to find together for a compromise.

I felt like on bazar in the last days before the EGM.

Those who wanted a change didn't offer the possibilities for a change. Look on the votes and you will see in all departments something like "block-votes". So in the end nothing is solved now, there is a new board and people already start attacking again.
If anybody think it is enough to offer the WC and CL one year to "South" and the other year to "North" don't understand the real problems I fear.
There needs to be done much more.

I have to say I'm really sorry for those candidates who offered some kind of program but were not elected.


Lorenzo wrote:
Vincent, I am not interested in starting an argument, but rather a dialogue.

The people you wanted to keep out of the Board were kept out of the Board. As a token of good will, you were even offered the chair of president.

I am told that when you changed your mind and refused to support Stefano as sport director, he offered to step back if you were ready to do the same.

The reason why Stefano and Piero withdrew their candidatures is that they saw no point in forming a divided Board, even less one having important countries rowing against it.

Is that blackmail? Shocked

If I said anything wrong, I stand ready to be corrected.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  thetruth on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:42 pm

Congratulations Piero, Stefano, Leonidas, Laurent!!!

Even Muammar Gaddafi would be jealous. You managed to stay in power without killing even one person!!! My deepest respect.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:53 pm

drastis wrote:Only a few words about the matter.

The whole process of the elections was unacceptable. Two members of FISTF BoD acted as delegates of their countries which is against the statutes. Two nations were represented by people who paid a few hundred Euros to secure the representation (a huge shame!!). Late candidacies were allowed, while they shouldn't. The "winner" side did not bother to find a proper candidate for Marketing and also they did not take care to have an alternative solution for Communication, while they knew that Vincent was not going to continue working with them.

And one last thing which is totally personal, but proves that the whole thing was setup and wicked. Two days before the election I received an email, sent by Laurent Garnier, in which he told me that he was going to retire his candidacy in my favour, and he offered to help me in my new role as General Secretary of FISTF. Two days later, this person was elected General Secretary.

PS Giufaz you pretended to be the safeguard of legality in Madrid, instead you took another path in the meantime. I am totally disappointed by you personally, if there was a serious reason to act like that, I honestly can't see it.

Drastis,
This is my last intervention in this forum as I see that the only purpose is to offend the job we have done and not to understand how procedures were applied. I answer to you as I saw up to now that you are the most moderate and I still think that you are trying to understand and not only to destroying.
Before the meeting we accepted that Laurent Garnier, trusted by everybody (and all thebpeople of this forum) as wise person could personally transform the telephonic vote in a postal vote. Those votes, as you can imagine, weren't in favor of Piero or Stefano.
The congress, therefore, knew only postal votes (no telephonic ones), including the ones brought by Laurent. Alain and Laurent didn't vote at the Congress personally, as they were board members. England and France voted with postal vote.
Koutrumanos didn't vote as I asked him to refrain in order to avoid any possible claim of being unfair and being Biard member. He didn't send either postal vote.
Concerning payment of fees for Countries that were not present, I personally don't see anything wrong if a person that the Country delegate for participating to elections pays in the name of the Country: where do you see the corruption here? Furthermore, during the congress all the countries were admitted to vote and all the postal vote received by Laurent (I guess by phone) where deemed valid.
Finally, when Greek people said that you couldn't be a candidate as you are not member of FISTF (it seems you are not yet member of Greek federation as you didn't renewed your participation since years) I personally opposed and guaranteed for you (even if I don't know you) and obtained to have you as candidate.
I hope it can be useful and in truth I wish here to provide only information you are requesting without polemic.
As I'sure that my intervention will be followed by many polemics of people that cannot accept that everything was done according with rules and in a fair mode. I repeat, I stop intervene now and I will try to avoid to follow anymore this discussion.
Of course I will remain available via mp for people really interested in knowing how thinks went.
At least until I will be allowed to access the forum.
Good luck to the others.
Best

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:56 pm

thetruth wrote:Congratulations Piero, Stefano, Leonidas, Laurent!!!

Even Muammar Gaddafi would be jealous. You managed to stay in power without killing even one person!!! My deepest respect.
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  mikeburns on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:45 pm

I'm still looking for an answer to a question...

I want to know who paid the FISTF fee for India when they were FISTF member and also why are they not a FISTF member now??

Cheers,
Mike

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:53 pm

Mike, I only can tell you that I didn't pay it.
As far as I know, it was paid by somebody from india.
the surest information can be given by Fred Vulpes, who was financial director in that periode.

mikeburns wrote:I'm still looking for an answer to a question...

I want to know who paid the FISTF fee for India when they were FISTF member and also why are they not a FISTF member now??

Cheers,
Mike

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  drastis on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:05 pm

Hello Giufaz,

At last one of the people who were present in Madird is willing to explain. Thanks Giufaz, although I am not convinced by your answers. So, let me point out the following:

Firstly, I would like to know who represented which country as delegates. If Laurent and Alan did not represent France and England, then these countries WERE NOT represented in the EGM, right? Koutroumanos did not represent Greece also. Who represented Holland? It is clearly stated in the statutes that no peson can represent more than one country. Who represented Gibraltar? Who represented Argentina? If less than 8 nations were represented properly then the quorum prerequisite was not fulfilled and the EGM is not valid!! Who were the actual delegates with a voting right (except elections votes, for which there was a declared postal vote). Names please.

Secondly, by what legal power can a person transform telephonic votes to postal votes??? Who accepted that? Not England, France and Greece, I guess. They had no delegates, right? I personally talked with the President of the English Association and he does not have an idea about what you are talking. He sent no postal vote and he still thinks that England was represented in Madrid by Alan Collins.

Thirdly, the greek association sent all legal papers to FISTF BoD and to Garnier and Collins personally. Capponi has also received the same legal papers. These papers (Court decision, Provisionary BoD decision) prove BEYOND ANY DOUBT that Koutroumanos is no longer President of PATFAP. You can have them in private if you want. So, why Greece was not allowed to vote?

Also, when someone talks about corruption, he does not talk of the legal sense only. There is the legal aspect and there is the moral aspect. Representing a country and voting for this country by paying money can possibly be legal, but it is ENTIRELY IMMORAL. You as a lawyer can judge the legal part, while we the ignorants can judge the ethical part, no?

As for me, I am a member of all Greek Table Football Associations since 1981 (30 years!!). I have played in THREE WORLD CUPS, representing Greece, everybody in FISTF knows me personally. Typically, I am not a member of PATFAP because NO LEGAL BoD exists since PATFAP was created in 2007, so there was no one to accept my membership application since then. In fact, THERE ARE NO PATFAP MEMBERS, except the founding ones, because there has never been a LEGAL BoD to validate ANY membership application. There was only an illegal BoD, and an illegal President who sued me for 200,000 Euros when I protested against the fraud election of 2008. You are a lawyer and you can undestand what I am saying.

I will not continue this in public. You can send me a PM if you are still interested in learning the truth. There are lots you need to know.

Thanks again

giufaz wrote:Drastis,
This is my last intervention in this forum as I see that the only purpose is to offend the job we have done and not to understand how procedures were applied. I answer to you as I saw up to now that you are the most moderate and I still think that you are trying to understand and not only to destroying.
Before the meeting we accepted that Laurent Garnier, trusted by everybody (and all thebpeople of this forum) as wise person could personally transform the telephonic vote in a postal vote. Those votes, as you can imagine, weren't in favor of Piero or Stefano.
The congress, therefore, knew only postal votes (no telephonic ones), including the ones brought by Laurent. Alain and Laurent didn't vote at the Congress personally, as they were board members. England and France voted with postal vote.
Koutrumanos didn't vote as I asked him to refrain in order to avoid any possible claim of being unfair and being Biard member. He didn't send either postal vote.
Concerning payment of fees for Countries that were not present, I personally don't see anything wrong if a person that the Country delegate for participating to elections pays in the name of the Country: where do you see the corruption here? Furthermore, during the congress all the countries were admitted to vote and all the postal vote received by Laurent (I guess by phone) where deemed valid.
Finally, when Greek people said that you couldn't be a candidate as you are not member of FISTF (it seems you are not yet member of Greek federation as you didn't renewed your participation since years) I personally opposed and guaranteed for you (even if I don't know you) and obtained to have you as candidate.
I hope it can be useful and in truth I wish here to provide only information you are requesting without polemic.
As I'sure that my intervention will be followed by many polemics of people that cannot accept that everything was done according with rules and in a fair mode. I repeat, I stop intervene now and I will try to avoid to follow anymore this discussion.
Of course I will remain available via mp for people really interested in knowing how thinks went.
At least until I will be allowed to access the forum.
Good luck to the others.
Best


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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Lorenzo on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:26 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Lorenzo I'm sorry, but I'm shocked about your post. Especially about the part that 2 countries can offer the chair of president to somebody, who is not candidate. Did anybody of the involved people think one minute about the feeling of Markus, Vesa or Alan?

Heinz,

here is my sincere if unqualified opinion.

I already acknowledged that the election was a tragicomedy, a big joke, and it will be so as long as the statutes are not reformed, dismissing individual elections and replacing them by a list system. That’s a prime priority of the new Board.

In the actual situation of deep cleavage of the international community, if existing rules were followed and individual candidates elected on the basis of individual merit only, any Board would likely be composed by an assorted mix of persons with diametrically contradictory ideas and inimical to each other.

No country in the world allows for the direct election of individual ministers and secretaries.

That’s why preventive agreements were a necessity. There was no other sensible option. It was just a matter whether it could be done on the basis of a gentlemen’s agreement or by the means of an electoral confrontation between the two foremost factions.

In concern with the elections themselves… staged on the background of frail and contradictory regulations, managed by the dying Catania Board and overshadowed by the absurd idea of voting by phone or sms, it was inevitable that the losing side would come across countless reasons to censure the electoral process. I tell you, the same would be happening over the Italian forum had Vincent prevailed.

Whatever, Giufaz guarantees that the procedures were as regular as possible given the circumstances, and he insists that the Belgian lawyer who assisted him shares this belief. We have a new Board, I hold Piero and Stefano for serious-minded and committed persons, and I think the only sensible thing to do is to support their efforts to bring the movement together.
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Thossa on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:11 pm

Lorenzo wrote:We have a new Board, I hold Piero and Stefano for serious-minded and committed persons, and I think the only sensible thing to do is to support their efforts to bring the movement together.

Except of Fred Vulpes and without Silvio Catania it is the same team like last year, just a bit mixed up in the jobs here and there. Once Stefano called himself a dreamer here in this forum. Piero´s main interest should be Total Soccer, not FISTF-President. Fancy the situation people could think he will misuse his position because of Total Soccer interests.

It is really a very very sensible thing...

I expect from serious-minded and committed persons not a candidature in last minute without a program presented right in time Exclamation

But, as these gentleman already presented in January 2010: We want to be professional. That must be program enough, right?

Some people probably ask for a 2nd chance for all. In my opinion, they missed it already before last weekend. And for some it would be the 3rd or 4th chance by the way... I am frightened
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Malta

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:38 pm

Who voted for Malta?
giufaz? Can you tell us??
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:02 pm

Marcus Tilgner wrote:Who voted for Malta?
giufaz? Can you tell us??

Giufaz himself was representing Malta

Papakonstantinou was representing Argentina

Jose Luis Lopez was representing Gibraltar

Titi Giaux was representing Monaco

Antonio Pezzi was representing Belgium


And the rest can be seen in the minutes ....
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  mikeburns on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:06 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Mike, I only can tell you that I didn't pay it.
As far as I know, it was paid by somebody from india.
the surest information can be given by Fred Vulpes, who was financial director in that periode.

Ok, thanks Heinz. i'm just wondering because there is allegations of corruption but I also find it strange that a Nation with no Table Football history suddenly became a member nation just before the last elections. I just want to know that the people accusing others of paying Member fees for countries in exchange for their "vote" are not guilty of doing the exact some thing.

Anyway, this shouldnt be too much of an outrage. It happens in all walks of life, people, businesses, countries, give something to someone else (usually money) in exchange for their "support". Maybe not as blatant as this but it happens!

Look at Russia and Qatar getting the World Cup for example...!!!


On another note, I have no opinion on what has happened. What must be set out now is a plan for all countries. I think the FISTF board should look at every country individually and set up a seperate development plan that suits that country.

Also, the Europa League needs scrapped, what a shit idea that was!

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:08 pm

Lorenzo I didn't comment the elections or the result of the elections (I also won't do here).
We shouldn't use the comparison between FISTF and national gouvernments in countries, because it is as different as night and day in my opinion.

In our case the discussions started 1 week before the elections and people were even asked to change their candidature 1 week before the elections, which is a total joke in my opinion.
That request can only be done by people who wouldn't be prepared if they would be candidate. If somebody would be candidate for president he should already think about a program or the structure before the elections, if he is asked to candidate for secretary (with already 2 candidates) or sports director (no candidate) 1 week before elections, I totally can understand everybody who says he applied for that job and nothing else.

Is it positive for FISTF to call it consense to support somebody to become candidate whos work and personality in exactly the same position was blamed over the last months only because the only candidate is even "more hated"?
Is it positive for FISTF if Vincent and Stefano work in the same board only to show a kind of consense?
Is it positive for FISTF if both wouldn't work in the board only to show a kind of consense?

Please think about the actual situation.
People need to find a consense of a whole board BEFORE elections, but on the other side some of those people complain that everybody must be allowed to candidate.
In the end the blocks nominated the candidates for the elections (or tried it at least), but people complained when Silvio decided that only associations can nominate candidates. He only did officially what others did behind the courtains now.
Those who wanted to be undependent didn't have any chance. That's all we can say about it that everybody is free to candidate, in my opinion hypocratical.

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Heinz,

here is my sincere if unqualified opinion.

I already acknowledged that the election was a tragicomedy, a big joke, and it will be so as long as the statutes are not reformed, dismissing individual elections and replacing them by a list system. That’s a prime priority of the new Board.

In the actual situation of deep cleavage of the international community, if existing rules were followed and individual candidates elected on the basis of individual merit only, any Board would likely be composed by an assorted mix of persons with diametrically contradictory ideas and inimical to each other.

No country in the world allows for the direct election of individual ministers and secretaries.

That’s why preventive agreements were a necessity. There was no other sensible option. It was just a matter whether it could be done on the basis of a gentlemen’s agreement or by the means of an electoral confrontation between the two foremost factions.

In concern with the elections themselves… staged on the background of frail and contradictory regulations, managed by the dying Catania Board and overshadowed by the absurd idea of voting by phone or sms, it was inevitable that the losing side would come across countless reasons to censure the electoral process. I tell you, the same would be happening over the Italian forum had Vincent prevailed.

Whatever, Giufaz guarantees that the procedures were as regular as possible given the circumstances, and he insists that the Belgian lawyer who assisted him shares this belief. We have a new Board, I hold Piero and Stefano for serious-minded and committed persons, and I think the only sensible thing to do is to support their efforts to bring the movement together.

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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  Admin on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:22 pm

Mike, when the guys in India contacted us and said "we want to be members of FISTF because we want to create an association to develop table football in India", we were very surprised. We were even more surprised when, a few days after wesent them our handbook (so that they could know our rules), they made a ban transfer of 100 Euro and said "we paid our membership fee" (!!!)

As for corruption, when I saw on TV that Russia and Qatar were chosen to host the world cup, I couldn't believe my eyes and just said I hope there will never be as much corruption in FISTF than at FIFA. I realize it's worse now!

As for the Europa League, I basically thought it was really shit as an idea. Then I changed my mind. I think it can be a good idea but there are many rules that need to be changed. Both Cups need to be played at the same place. It's also a big joke some countries can have teams at the Europa League without being at the Champion's League... To see Atlas winning the EL was one of the biggest jokes of 2010 as they should have been in Mattersburg...
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Re: Madrid, 02/11

Post  mikeburns on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:26 pm

Mike, when the guys in India contacted us and said "we want to be members of FISTF because we want to create an association to develop table football in India", we were very surprised. We were even more surprised when, a few days after wesent them our handbook (so that they could know our rules), they made a ban transfer of 100 Euro and said "we paid our membership fee" (!!!)

As for corruption, when I saw on TV that Russia and Qatar were chosen to host the world cup, I couldn't believe my eyes and just said I hope there will never be as much corruption in FISTF than at FIFA. I realize it's worse now!

As for the Europa League, I basically thought it was really shit as an idea. Then I changed my mind. I think it can be a good idea but there are many rules that need to be changed. Both Cups need to be played at the same place. It's also a big joke some countries can have teams at the Europa League without being at the Champion's League... To see Atlas winning the EL was one of the biggest jokes of 2010 as they should have been in Mattersburg...


Thanks Vincent for the answer. I am happy with that, I just wanted to make sure.

I also agree with you about the Europa League point.

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