FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

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FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Tom Conway on Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Why would anyone be interested in table football with this FISTF Bull Shi@ fights going on? Time to end FISTF and just play. This whole forum is dedicated to fighting about FISTF not table football.

FISTF is messed up, was messed up and always will be messed up.

Time to start over or table football will never have a chance to survive.

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:52 am

A great and helpful input on the situation.

Tom Conway wrote:Why would anyone be interested in table football with this FISTF Bull Shi@ fights going on? Time to end FISTF and just play. This whole forum is dedicated to fighting about FISTF not table football.

FISTF is messed up, was messed up and always will be messed up.

Time to start over or table football will never have a chance to survive.


Last edited by Heinz Eder on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  panagios on Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:57 am

why is this useless?
this is his opinion and I find very useful to know that there are people that read the forum although they believe FISTF is utter crap

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:05 am

It is ok, if he thinks some people only discuss about FISTF and not about table soccer, that's not the problem.
If he thinks FISTF is useless and was messed up, it would be more input to say, why it was messed up and what needs to be done that it won't be messed up in the future.
I would like to know his arguments instead of putting only small pieces on the board. This is a discussion forum, posts like that don't make it possible to discuss.

panagios wrote:why is this useless?
this is his opinion and I find very useful to know that there are people that read the forum although they believe FISTF is utter crap

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Admin on Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:27 am

I understand Tom's point of view. I don't know him personnally but if I'm right, he's one of the players of the Michigan association. I understand that, as an outsider, he would expect something more of this forum: comments about tournaments, funny stories, questions about the rules of the game,... but unfortunately most of the last topics are just about the situation of the FISTF Board and at the end, it's really boring because we all forget that table football is just again and that we should concentrate more on the game than on the endless discussions from people "who think they know everything" or "who want to be in the Board so that they can take all the decisions themselves". Laughing
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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  mikeburns on Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:40 pm

Tom's comments are a lot more useful and to the point than the 50 pages of shite that has been posted already!!!

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  panagios on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:43 pm

Not far from the truth, unfortunately.

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:44 pm

You are right of course if there aren't taken consequences out of it.
If changes happen because of that discussion the 50 pages are worth.

Sorry, but I continue hoping that changes will happen, if not I totally agree with you.

mikeburns wrote:Tom's comments are a lot more useful and to the point than the 50 pages of shite that has been posted already!!!

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  panagios on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:59 pm

changes will never happen. what everyone fails to see is that fistf is doomed to be governed by consensus since neither can fistf put money in the game, nor is it the sole producer of material in order to be able to impose anything. if you cannot impose you have to compomise and in the end just reduce yourself to be the operational guy.


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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:05 pm

then as it seems I'm an uthopist Question

panagios wrote:changes will never happen. what everyone fails to see is that fistf is doomed to be governed by consensus since neither can fistf put money in the game, nor is it the sole producer of material in order to be able to impose anything. if you cannot impose you have to compomise and in the end just reduce yourself to be the operational guy.


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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Tom Conway on Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:55 pm

My point is that when you have a year long debate on a goaltender it does no good for the game.

As an outsider in the USA it should be clear that FISTF and all the fights surrounding it has hurt the game.

A better approach would be to worry about your own countries development of the the game and try to get things growing by involving more people. Just worry about your own backyard.

Maybe FISTF should just run the big prestigious highly attended tournaments that bring the most players and let the world rankings go, do them by country or region. Or have region tournaments or something different as it seems that the old model of FISTF seems to not work for the table football community.

It seems to be impossible due to logistics, distance and travel expense to have world organization.

Get the old school Subbuteo players involved and have the old cloth pitches setup for tournament play. Just try to bring people together and not drive people apart.

The courts have been drawn in to running a club, just sad.


If the USA was a FISTF member and a tournament was held in the USA and there was also one in Italy the winners world get world ranking points but the level off competition would be dramatically higher in Italy due to more players and more highly skilled players in Italy so the world ranking favor the lesser country players in the USA.

Sorry about the rant but when a sport has most of its best player in it's 30's and 40's it is not a good sign for the health of the sport. FISTF as a brand or a product leaves an extremely negative view of table soccer as a whole and would keep most people from wanting to get involved table football.

"Federation of International Sports Table Football" drop this name and call it something that uses the name Subbuteo, which is beloved and cherished by all. I don't know crap about copyrights or trade marks but bring back the damn name of the game and get some positivity going.


Thanks


Tom

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:21 pm

I have to agree with Tom. It is time where action needs to be taken, rather than creating more posts saying the same as previous ones. Tell FISTF to go to h*ll & that there is going to be change in the structure of Subbuteo.

Firstly, embrace & love our clubs. This is where Subbuteo belongs & where interest & participation comes from.

Second: National associations need to:
  • Help people to organize clubs.
  • Help people find the club closest to where they live.
  • Raise the awareness of the game/sport (why can't it be both?)

Third: Continental confederations (Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Oceania, Africa).
  • Each continent would structure themselves in the manner that suits its members.
  • Each continent would organize the "Futures" & "Satellites", not FISTF.
  • Continental championship every year.
  • Continental confederation would elect delegates to FISTF board (2).

Fourth: FISTF:
  • Making sure there are a standard set of rules & equipment (from more than 1 supplier). Rules would only be changed with the agreement of the Continental Confederations' delegates.
  • Organizing the World Cup
  • World Cup every even year.
It has no business interfering in what a continental confederation does.

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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Admin on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:17 am

Many good points.

About continental cups, I think it's just too early now because North America means only the USA (Canada is not very active), same with Asia (it's mainly Singapore as the guys from Malaysia and Japan don't travel) and Africa (it's just South Africa).

There are many things that need to be thought again though.
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Re: FISTF This Whole Topic/Issues/Discussions

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:53 am

You describe FISTF of the future, but currently it is not possible to run FISTF that way.
Tom described the situation like it should be. FISTF doesn't organize the events on the tour, FISTF only gives the frame in which the tournaments should be organized.
In the end the national associations decide who organize the events in the country. FISTF is only important to set standards, nothing more but nothing less.
Development should happen on national level, that's totally correct, but who should be responsible to help new countries?
National Associations? With your view on things everybody should concentrate on himself, like this new countries never will find into the world of FISTF, because nobody would care about them.
FISTF should only unit all association under the same flag where tablesoccer tournaments are organized. FISTF's responsibility is only that the tournaments all over the world are played in the same format with homologated material and under the same rules.
Additionally FISTF should help new countries to develop and organize FISTF events one day.
Currently your structure is not possible because the development in the countries is not working. There are not enough people in most countries to run associations in a proper way.

That's the problem. Generally you can see your structure exactly like that in the last valid handbook of FISTF. That would be the plan for all of us I guess, but work is needed to get the number of people involved to make that form of organization possible.


Simon_H wrote:I have to agree with Tom. It is time where action needs to be taken, rather than creating more posts saying the same as previous ones. Tell FISTF to go to h*ll & that there is going to be change in the structure of Subbuteo.

Firstly, embrace & love our clubs. This is where Subbuteo belongs & where interest & participation comes from.

Second: National associations need to:
  • Help people to organize clubs.
  • Help people find the club closest to where they live.
  • Raise the awareness of the game/sport (why can't it be both?)

Third: Continental confederations (Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Oceania, Africa).
  • Each continent would structure themselves in the manner that suits its members.
  • Each continent would organize the "Futures" & "Satellites", not FISTF.
  • Continental championship every year.
  • Continental confederation would elect delegates to FISTF board (2).

Fourth: FISTF:
  • Making sure there are a standard set of rules & equipment (from more than 1 supplier). Rules would only be changed with the agreement of the Continental Confederations' delegates.
  • Organizing the World Cup
  • World Cup every even year.
It has no business interfering in what a continental confederation does.

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