WC 2011

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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:04 pm

Thossa wrote:I am sure, if the WC 2011 would stay in Rome and in September, as originally planned, the numbers of players would be much higher. This is in my opinion an owngoal made by the people who decided it to move it to Palermo in July.
Agreed!

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Re: WC 2011

Post  von K. on Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:24 pm

Thossa wrote:I am sure, if the WC 2011 would stay in Rome and in September, as originally planned, the numbers of players would be much higher. This is in my opinion an owngoal made by the people who decided it to move it to Palermo in July.

At least regarding my country, this is a fact.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:57 pm

From what I heard, the Greeks don't have plane tickets to go to Sicily. Looks like the next few days will bring their bunch of surprises... lol!

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Re: WC 2011

Post  von K. on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 am

If I understood Giorgos Koutis correctly, the prices (700 euros) of the flights to Sicily is a problem also for the greeks.

Are people now thinking the greeks are also boycotting the WC? Or is this allowed to the greeks, but not the rest? Or, just perhaps, could the people who contested the venue and the date in fact have a point?

scratch

p.s. What does this make of the accusations of boycott made by a FISTF director? Nothing pretty.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  maxischn on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:27 am

you and your northern attitude.... Razz
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Re: WC 2011

Post  Corydoras seracin on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:35 am

I would see when the low cost airlines have their cheapest filght tickets & start doing the World Cup in those months. Also, a capital city or a city with a "good" traffic airport will be easier to access.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  The Rock on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:21 am

Vesa we are not boycoting the World Cup. We made big efforts to participate but you all know that is a difficult financial period for Hellas. Many players that have qualified for w.c. are unemployed and for all of us it was impossible to pay 700 for a subbuteo trip. If w.c was in rome , or bologna , or milano be sure that plenty of us would be there. But palermo...... I don't really think that anybody is boycoting the w.c. It is simple a wrong decision of the italians to have w.c. to palermo , aplace that is difficult to be reached.
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Re: WC 2011

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:01 am

Knowing Vesa from several discussions here, I would say that he agrees 100% with you ...
He is only pointing to the fact that many players from OTHER countries had exactly the same reasons not to attend at the Wolrld Cup. But when THEY mentioned these reasons, they were accused to boycot the World Cup which is simply not true.
The decision for Palermo AND the decision for July was a huge mistake and now the time has come for some people to realize this... Let's hope, they do also understand... ;-)

The Rock wrote:Vesa we are not boycoting the World Cup. We made big efforts to participate but you all know that is a difficult financial period for Hellas. Many players that have qualified for w.c. are unemployed and for all of us it was impossible to pay 700 for a subbuteo trip. If w.c was in rome , or bologna , or milano be sure that plenty of us would be there. But palermo...... I don't really think that anybody is boycoting the w.c. It is simple a wrong decision of the italians to have w.c. to palermo , aplace that is difficult to be reached.
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Re: WC 2011

Post  Janus_Gersie on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:01 pm

von K. wrote:p.s. What does this make of the accusations of boycott made by a FISTF director? Nothing pretty.

As we know from whom its coming we should just forget the comment because it is a senseless comment.

There is a saying in Germany: Was stört es die Eiche, wenn sich ein Schwein dran kratzt ! I'll try to translate: An oak does not bother if a pig is having a scratch on its log.
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Re: WC 2011

Post  Marcus Tilgner on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:09 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:Was stört es die Eiche, wenn sich ein Schwein dran kratzt ! I'll try to translate: An oak does not bother if a pig is having a scratch on its log.

I believe, my pig is whistling... pig
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Re: WC 2011

Post  von K. on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:13 am

The Rock wrote:Vesa we are not boycoting the World Cup. We made big efforts to participate but you all know that is a difficult financial period for Hellas. Many players that have qualified for w.c. are unemployed and for all of us it was impossible to pay 700 for a subbuteo trip. If w.c was in rome , or bologna , or milano be sure that plenty of us would be there. But palermo...... I don't really think that anybody is boycoting the w.c. It is simple a wrong decision of the italians to have w.c. to palermo , aplace that is difficult to be reached.

Giorgos, as Marcus wrote, I agree with you totally. I was again a bit sarcastic.

My comment is aimed at those people (not only SdF, but also others) who have accused many countries and players for boycotting the WC. Although it's disappointing that many greeks can't go, I'm quietly happy about this development. Because now we can all see that even a very important TF country has problems because of the city and the date (expensive holiday period).

The questions I posed should have been without question marks, because I have no doubt about the right answer. The city (nothing against Palermo in general) and the date are just very badly chosen.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  kechris on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:25 am

Many people in Greece have problem to spend money now.
The tickets for Palermo cost 350e. The 700e is Koutis' idea, is the cost with hotel and restaurants.
We had an offer with bus and we can travel with car.
But they didn't ask the rest players if want to go to palermo because they decided boycottage.
They hadn't post a word for W.C in official site!!!

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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:13 pm

Some arguments are funny to read. Our "poor greek friends" don't have money to organize a trip for the world cup but at the same time some greek clubs have enough money to pay travel trips for foreign players. Very Happy

I also hate the argument that it's not good to send a team "that will be humiliated". How many nations are as strong as Italy, Malta and Spain? Belgium had big problems to find a team but we were happy to get enough people to be represented and we just wish good luck to those who make the effort to travel.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  kechris on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:30 pm

Admin wrote:Some arguments are funny to read. Our "poor greek friends" don't have money to organize a trip for the world cup but at the same time some greek clubs have enough money to pay travel trips for foreign players. Very Happy

you have right. Only two greek clubs spending money for tranfers.
The clubs of Koutroumanos and Papakonstantinou.
Both of them support that they care for greek subbuteo but their acts prove that they care for personal targets.
They spend money for Argentina's vote but they don't leave greek players by other clubs to travel to W.C.
The last 4 years with Koutroumanos as president two times all the greek national teams are absent.

Vincent you understand who is really Koutroumanos after two years.
I hope Stefano and Piero to understand too in two years...
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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:13 pm

It's a very sad reality... but most of the time it's also very complicated to understand Stefano and Piero...

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Re: WC 2011

Post  von K. on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Admin wrote:
I also hate the argument that it's not good to send a team "that will be humiliated". How many nations are as strong as Italy, Malta and Spain? Belgium had big problems to find a team but we were happy to get enough people to be represented and we just wish good luck to those who make the effort to travel.

It's a question of attitude. Personally I don't believe in that sort of humiliation, regarding what others think. The humiliation is only seen by the country (or some of its people) itself. Everyone knows if the team and the players are not the top class. It can easily be written on a forum, so people know.

We finns were the ones who "humiliated" the greek team in Rotterdam. But we also knew we were lucky to be drawn in the same group as Hellas on that year. We had no illusions about whether that team was the best Greece has. We were happy to beat a name like Greece, but humiliation in our eyes or anyone else's (apart from the greeks), definitely not!

It's the same as the current football Copa América, where for example México had a second team. No one saw humiliation in finishing bottom of the group, because everyone knew the team was not the best possible.

If there was humiliation in that game against the finns, in our eyes, it was the attitude of my opponent in the team game, who after conceding a goal lost the ball immediately, and with referee on the scoreboard, he just started again! That was the real humiliation.

In Rain we played against Greece in the second round, and were trashed without any chance of even a point. And we knew that before. We didn't look at the name "Hellas" and think we did beat them last year.

I think that a World Cup should be such a tournament that it is an honour to participate for any country, if the players hold at least some level. But of course the main thing is to organise a World Cup site and date better.

Every country (I don't know if there was again a problem, as written in SN) is free to choose. And people see these things differently. So, I just wrote my own thoughts about the humiliation aspect.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  von K. on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:15 pm

A couple of extremely tough groups in the Open. Especially group 5 is a group of death.

John Lauder wrote this 2 or 3 days ago on the SN:

Our apologies but the Wales team has had to withdraw from the team event.

We still have two players in the open and two players in the veterans individuals.

At least this will make an even split of 8 teams


But SdF (also known by double nick Arciere, by the way) wrote today:

Open Team

Group 1

Malta
Italy
Spain
Wales

So after the withdrawal of Greece, it would have been not so nice looking 7 teams. Maybe the welsh somehow got a team together after all. Strange.

I was surprised to see a player representing the USA. Does anyone know if he is travelling from there?

p.s. I was not surprised by the lack of information (also in fistf.info in Capponi's official announcement...) regarding the time of the congress...

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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:25 pm

Andrea Gasparini is an Italian living in the US and playing for the club of Connecticut. He recently travelled in Hong Kong (business trip) to meet the local guys, won the GP of Argentina and took part in the Major of Bologna. He's the cousin of Fernandino Gasparini, a very good italian player.

As for the "Congress" (according to me it can be an AGM, not a Congress), Luis Horta just announced on Facebook it will take place tomorrow evening.

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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:27 pm

The other unbelievable thin in the draw is that there must be a list of substitutes. It's a total joke that the open category will be played by 31 players instead of 32. Never seen a bad joke like this before...

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Re: WC 2011

Post  Admin on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:31 pm

By the way, group 8 is quite hard as well... (Bolognino, Bennett, Delogne, Wittmann).

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Re: WC 2011

Post  The Rock on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:26 pm


''''''''''''Some arguments are funny to read. '''''''''''''

I am glad that i made you happy, because after madrid you are continously unhappy and nugging on forum.

'''''''' Our "poor greek friends" '''''''

We can be ironic too. But the poor friends had spend on travelling big money. We travel everywhere and always by plane , not like you who is travelling a three hour ride by car and with 50 euros cost.

''''''''' I also hate the argument that it's not good to send a team "that will be humiliated". ''''''''

It doesn't matter. In the past we also hated many of your arguments and acts. For example all the big events to be near your country or at your country , so you could travel there with 50 euros. For example w.c 2005 belgium, 2006 germany, 2007 france, 2008 austria, 2009 nederlands, 2010 germany. Coincidence? I don't think so. Vincent the fact that you worked very hard [ you know how much i appreciate your work for fistf] doesn't mean that you are a person without mistakes, or a person that is always right and all others are wrong.

''''''''''' How many nations are as strong as Italy, Malta and Spain? ''''''''''''''''

When we play full power , i believe that especially malta and spain are not better than us.


''''''''''''' we just wish good luck to those who make the effort to travel. ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Luck is not enough.....



Vesa. Even when i don't fully agree with your thoughts, i always love to read them and try to understand a different and interesting perspective. You know how much i respect you and i am very glad that the subbuteo community has such people inside it.
I understand your point of view. But.... After 2009 same people that now wanted hellas to participate palermo , even with a week team , were very critical to greek forums then. They stated that it was a disgrace the team of many finals and semi finals to have such results. I also had personal critisism that i played with that week team for personal reasons, that i looked like a fool etc.. I decided then , never to be a part of a week national team in the future and if in any way (by vote or anything) i can decide or interfear, this is not going to happen again. On 2009 i believed that we must participate even with a week team. Sorry, but now i don't believe that anymore. We are not mature enough to play just for the participation. We want something more.











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