Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

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Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:05 am

For your info info
Topics: Italy – Spain joint letter to FISTF
To the attention of FISTF nations
and cc of FISTF players

Dear friends,
the situation that has precipitated at the FISTF is really desperate. We now have nations and
leaders who are facing each other in a relentless and hard way.
There are two sides, with nations and leaders who waiting Congress to put in place a real
showdown. There’s a situation of impasse, whose only way out seems to be the division of
FISTF in two separate sections opposing each other.
In this scenario, not at all reassuring and jagged, we want to try to throw a stone into the
pond. We want to try to figure out if there are still the conditions for finding a common
multiplier in carrying on together. Not voluntarily talk about the management of both FISTF
current and previous Board because the international situation has become so advanced that
threatens to fall at any moment.
The situation of the nations that are part of the international federation is the most diverse
you can imagine, ranging from countries where a number of friends play together for fun to
hundreds of players and dozens of clubs with a real back bone. Precisely from the fact that we
are totally unbalanced between these two scenarios we try to build our proposal.
The first requirement that we would like to put before all countries, is one of the rules. We
need to create a federation legally recognized internationally and is composed of national
associations as registered and legalized in the nations of membership. This will allow us to
have certain rules and apply to everyone. Only countries that will create national associations
will be legally registered member nations, other nations will be partners.
The second stage of this process will be represented by the insurance coverage of events.
We cannot continue to organize tournaments and events without any guarantee for those who
participate. This of course will be based on the system that regulates insurance in the various
countries. We cannot wait to do so is essential if we are starting to call the sport.
The third aspect is related to the numerical and organization of existing federations. To be
member countries of FISTF one is supposed to comply with the minimum requirements
relating to the number of players and interests to the most significant events of the season as
the World Cup and European Cup for clubs. Obviously, for countries outside Europe will be a
different type of membership but we must not hide behind a finger that for countries such as
US and Argentina, the only two where table football is confined out of Europe, FISTF did
almost nothing.
The fourth point is perhaps the one that will require greater commitment from of all nations.
We need to break that wall that divides the table football with the media and sponsors. To do
this we need to start working in a structured and precise in our nations. The energies here are
in massively and organized. Those who prove their country of know how to do this work are
the ideals of the leaders FISTF. As mentioned above, there are nations that are collapsing
from the point of view numerically from that of organizational visibility. Now these countries
deserve total help from FISTF but these countries cannot be the leaders of FISTF.
This, obviously, not because we want to punish those countries but because these directors
are not aware of the problems associated with the organization and growth could not
understand the real needs of countries that have a completely different landscape. The rule of
the 5-0 or the creation of a European League will are a very clear example.
The fifth and last argument is related to the growth in numbers of the players and within this
the promotion to children who represent the future of table football. There are countries where
Veteran players are almost exclusively and this is not acceptable if you want to actually think
of a job to do in perspective. In addition, there are countries that are composed of the same
players for the last twenty years and if they have added some new players found by chance.
Here too, one will have to load FISTF to develop a program of work in individual countries
but it is clear that this work should be done by national leaders who will engage primarily in
their home country.
It remains to discuss and solve a lot of things from the materials, regulations, the
international circuit, etc.. These are all things that we face but we just starting to ask:
1. An extraordinary Congress
2. In this conference the first item on the agenda will be the approval of a new statute
which set forth the rules laid down in the first three points.
3. Once approved we will proceed to discuss the status of the arguments, trying to find
even an election by the best managers possible role for role.
We realize that at present our proposal may seem utopian, but we feel the same try. We
must try to stay together. Otherwise who will make different choices will assume
responsibility for having destroyed the FISTF.

Piero Capponi - President of Asociaciòn Española de Fùtbol de Mesa
Enrico Corso - FISCT President
Jose Carlos Guerrero - Spanish member at FISTF Board of Nations
Stefano De Francesco - Italian member at FISTF Board of Nations
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:55 am

Some comments.


There are two sides, with nations and leaders who waiting Congress to put in place a real showdown. There’s a situation of impasse, whose only way out seems to be the division of FISTF in two separate sections opposing each other.
I don't really believe there are two sides. There are just people who realize that there has not been any good decision over one year and the things that used to work well in the past don't work anymore. We need a Congress to set up a way to have FISTF back on the right track.
The situation of the nations that are part of the international federation is the most diverse you can imagine, ranging from countries where a number of friends play together for fun to hundreds of players and dozens of clubs with a real back bone. Precisely from the fact that we are totally unbalanced between these two scenarios we try to build our proposal.
Actually there is only one nation that has "hundreds of players and dozens of clubs" (Italy), 2 nations with lower number but good numbers anyway (Belgium and Greece), a few nations with a good circuit with a few clubs and a good number of players (Austria, Spain, France, Germany, England,...), nations with a tradition of table football but low numbers (Scotland, Portugal, Finland,...) and "very small" nations (Hong Kong, Australia, Switzerland,...).
The first requirement that we would like to put before all countries, is one of the rules. We need to create a federation legally recognized internationally and is composed of national associations as registered and legalized in the nations of membership. This will allow us to have certain rules and apply to everyone. Only countries that will create national associations will be legally registered member nations, other nations will be partners.
This is the first mistake. It's important to know what are the rules in every country. The thing is not to say "the rules applied in Italy and Spain should be applied in all countries" because it's bullshit. There are nations where you don't need to register associations to be "official" and other nations where you can not be official because there are some restrictions (for instance, there can be countries where to be a "sports association", you need to have 5000 players and it's absolutely impossible).
The second stage of this process will be represented by the insurance coverage of events. We cannot continue to organize tournaments and events without any guarantee for those who participate. This of course will be based on the system that regulates insurance in the various countries. We cannot wait to do so is essential if we are starting to call the sport.
This is another mistake because the rules about insurances are different from country to country. In Belgium, most players have personal insurances that cover their liability during spors events. There is no need to have special insurances for an association or for a tournament. I think I read somewhere Finland is also in a situation where there is no need for them to take insurances. I don't see why nations should be penalized if they follow the rules of their own country. It is also very unclear what people expect from the "insurance" let me remind you I work in th insurance business). Catania never said exactly what should be covered by insurance policies.
The third aspect is related to the numerical and organization of existing federations. To be member countries of FISTF one is supposed to comply with the minimum requirements relating to the number of players and interests to the most significant events of the season as the World Cup and European Cup for clubs. Obviously, for countries outside Europe will be a different type of membership but we must not hide behind a finger that for countries such as US and Argentina, the only two where table football is confined out of Europe, FISTF did almost nothing.
Once again, I totally disagree with this paragraph. Ask Mr Miscia and the organizers from Mar del Plata & Buenos Aires what the previous Board did for Argentina. When Philippe Hipfinger travelled to Argentina as "ambassador" of table football, I don't believe it was "nothing" from FISTF. Also, why do we always forget nations such as South Africa and Singapore? Tournaments in Singapore are better organized than in some european countries and South Africa was one of the most enthusiats "young associations" till the new Board just decided to ignore them...
Speaking about numbers is also a big joke. Are you going to tell Finland they can't have the same advantages as Italy if they don't have 100 active players within the next 24 months? Is it why FISTF is existing? As a reminder, here is an important point of the FISTF statutes:
The aims of FISTF are:
2-1 To promote the sport table football in all possible ways.
2-2 To develop friendly relationships between officials and players of National Associations by promoting the organization of matches of the sport table football in every area.
2-3 To manage the sport table football by taking all necessary statutory and regulatory measures and decisions for the sports, administrative and financial management of the sport table football al the world level.
2-4 To take all necessary measures to prevent breach of the Statutes and regulations of FISTF.
2-5 To settle and adjudicate any controversy, dispute or claim arising between National Associations by enacting statutory, regulatory or other appropriate measures.

The fourth point is perhaps the one that will require greater commitment from of all nations. We need to break that wall that divides the table football with the media and sponsors. To do this we need to start working in a structured and precise in our nations. The energies here are in massively and organized. Those who prove their country of know how to do this work are the ideals of the leaders FISTF.
This is a point that I really don't understand. How can you get attention from the medias if you don't have anything to show them. As far as I know, the 2 world cups in Germany had very good media coverage (in particular in 2006 when CNN and SkySports were covering the event) but it's always easier to cover a big international tournament than a national or regional event (where you will easily have regional newspaper but no big national media).
As mentioned above, there are nations that are collapsing from the point of view numerically from that of organizational visibility. Now these countries deserve total help from FISTF but these countries cannot be the leaders of FISTF.
The quality of the leaders does not depend on such crteria. Youc an have brilliant people from Finland, Singapore or Gibraltar ready to work for FISTF while, in counter part, the fact to be italian or spanish is not a guarantee to be a brilliant official.
The rule of the 5-0 or the creation of a European League will are a very clear example.
The rule of the 5-0 has created a lot of problems in some categories. Also, even if most Board members of the previous Board were totally against it, we accepted it as a sign of "good faith" towards nations as Italy and Spain but the more time passes, the more I believe this rule is more a source of problems than a source of satisfaction. As about the Europa Leaghe, some say it was a success. It's not the topic to discuss if the Europa League is good or not but just 2 things:
- any tournament where players have many good games will be a success. I have seen "Futures" that are fantastic events because players play more games than in a Grand Prix but some people still say Futures and Challengers are not a god thing for table football (!!!)
- many people think the Europa League should exist if organized int he same place as the Champions League and with better criterias of qualification. The proposals of Olivier Père have been rejected by Catania, which was one of the reasons why Olivier resigned (!!!!!)
The fifth and last argument is related to the growth in numbers of the players and within this the promotion to children who represent the future of table football. There are countries where Veteran players are almost exclusively and this is not acceptable if you want to actually think of a job to do in perspective. In addition, there are countries that are composed of the same players for the last twenty years and if they have added some new players found by chance.
We can not compare nations. In may countries, there are people who are still playing and we should be happy that they are still involved after 20 years. Now to ask them to take young players in charge is something elese. Youc an not compare taking one day per month to play a tournament (sometimes in the other corner of Europe with huge travel costs) and being an organizer who has to take at least one day a week to teach the game to kids. It's all about the motivation of people. If some nations are good, that's fine but what has the community done for nations who work with the youth? Once again, DENMARK had a great youth development and they won the U15 titles in 2006 (individual and team). When they were givent eh world cup as a reward for their efforts and it was a unique chance to relaunch the game in their country, the people who signed this letter (Italians and Spanish but also greeks and Malteses) refused to have a world cup in Denmark. Sorry but you are totally going under your owns philosophy here!!!!
It remains to discuss and solve a lot of things from the materials, regulations, the international circuit, etc..
I believe 99% of the current rules (handbook) are perfect. But where is the handbook since september 2009? There is no update so where is the credibility of FISTF?
These are all things that we face but we just starting to ask:
1. An extraordinary Congress
Agreed and in the delays (before the Major of Mons)
2. In this conference the first item on the agenda will be the approval of a new statute which set forth the rules laid down in the first three points.
We need to explain people what points should be changed and why.
Once approved we will proceed to discuss the status of the arguments, trying to find even an election by the best managers possible role for role.
At least there is a need to have a team of people who WORK on the main issues such as communication and sports matters because these are the priorities of FISTF.
We realize that at present our proposal may seem utopian, but we feel the same try. We must try to stay together. Otherwise who will make different choices will assume responsibility for having destroyed the FISTF.
It is also important that nations such as Spain and Italy will not manage to keep "people together" if they put other nations under pressure and if they ask too much to the small nations.
Cheers,
Vincent
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:39 am

Except the reference for an EGM, these are the same unbelievable proposals made by Canania a few days ago in his circular, or am I wrong ?

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:01 pm

We always move around and come back to the point of start regulary.
I got the letter yesterday, I only can comment it with my personal view and my personal interpretation.
About the development it is easy to understand I think, every association should try to take the chance of Total Soccer and every association really should try to launch the product in stores. Then the development in all countries will happen automatically. It is not development if some players who play 25 years or longer motivate their children to play.

I honestly think that the splitting continues in form of the CoN because they didn't understand the problem and they didn't take enough time to look for compromises. It is not enough to write all opinions on a forum and then try to vote and the simple majority decides about the way things should happen. The CoN needs more discussions and a 2/3 majority for a final decision. If Italy and Spain are always on the side of 1/3, they maybe easier could accept it that not all of their views are right and they are not always right only because they have loads of members. Currently they have naturally the feeling that 1 or 2 small associations turn the balance against them.

You are not automatically a good board member because of having more members in your association, that must be clear and that discussion has to stop, because it doesn't help to solve any problem. I think everybody should be free to decide on his own, if he wants to work in his association or in FISTF, that's absolute discriminating, sorry. Most important who decides if I'm citizen of a country which is good enough to send a FISTF Board member?

Our statutes are not good, we saw it more than once in the last year.
There is nothing written down about cancelling elections, who can tell me, if it is possible or not?
There is nothing concrete written down about the EGM.
There is nothing written down what has to happen, if 2 candidates have the same number of votes.
There is nothing written down about the way of application for a post in the board.
Currently the Congress normally has to vote for the president as long as none of the candidates has 2/3 of the votes, even if there are only 2 candidates, that needs to be changed too. The described procedure only has to happen in case there are more than 2 candidates.

I think those things are already enough to see that our statutes are not so good at the moment. Those should be the consequences out of the happenings we saw in the last year, and we are well advised to learn out of those happenings and change the statutes.

I think we need a new system of voting generally too. I can particullary understand bigger nations, but maybe they need to see how big they are in reality, so my proposal for a voting system is the following. The number of payers in the WR related to the number of population in a country should show how many votes an association should get at a Congress. Only to give you all an impression, if we would say an association gets for each % 1 vote, all association would stay on 1 vote. Based on that we are talking about sports associations and insurances, sorry, but some seem to make jokes. About those things we can talk when there are 5 associations reaching the 3 or 4 %.

Insurance is a nice topic too, we discussed about it many times. I would propose that the next board will ask information in all countries about the regulations where FISTF tournaments are organized, that would be the best and most fair way, instead of asking from all associations, undependent if they need or not, to spend money. What is the concrete problem to follow the above described procedure? Are they envious if they would see that it is not necessary in some countries to spend extra money?
PS: Only to have an insurance doesn't mean to be protected, if you do other mistakes, which makes the protection of the insurance unvalid. Vincent will understand what I mean.

There is written down in the statutes everything about associations and the legal stuff. Currently an association has to be legal in its country, we should stick on that in my opinion. One more time legal means that the national authority checks the statutes and they are registered officially. In Austria for an example the expression Sports Association is not existing. Every association is registered as a club, you can only officially recognize your activity as Sport in general. As Vincent wrote there are requirements they are different in every country too, so FISTF should have a look on that first too, before measuring with different facts.

As a conclusion the next FISTF Board should do the following
1. Support all associations to launch a product in stores
2. Check the requirements for the insurance topic in each country where FISTF events take place
3. Check the legal situation and requirements for the associations in their country
4. Never think in total numbers, because it is not good to compare countries in total numbers, if they have a totally different number of population.
5. Start to work on new statutes.

In the actual situation it shouldn't be a requirement to be a recognized sport in a country to become member of FISTF, that would destroy FISTF and surely would split it, but it could be a goal which could be reached in some years, but for sure it won't be reached without a product in stores, keep that always in mind.

The Europa League in its current system will kill itself, because it is nothing important as long as there are only teams from 2 or 3 countries. The system between Champions League and Europa League doesn't work, everybody who is experienced in organizing events can see that, there are changes needed. I think it would help much more to bring together both events.

Heinz

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  zinga on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:36 pm

Although, there are clear deficiencies in the letter, it is still a good step forward. Some comments on the Heinz's conclusions:
Heinz Eder wrote:
1. Support all associations to launch a product in stores
This is the main duty of the FISTF and its board. In Finland, we have had discussions with local stores to start selling TF products. If we succeed, promoting the game is so much easier.
Heinz Eder wrote:2. Check the requirements for the insurance topic in each country where FISTF events take place
Exactly. However, first should be defined what we need insurances for (playing fingers and nails, accidents, traveling, venue damages etc.), and if we need a licensing system to cover insurances (like in true sports).
Heinz Eder wrote:3. Check the legal situation and requirements for the associations in their country
As Heinz wrote, current statutes require associations to be legal. Is't it enough?
Heinz Eder wrote:4. Never think in total numbers, because it is not good to compare countries in total numbers, if they have a totally different number of population.
If Spain had the same number of players and clubs in FISTF rankings per population than Finland, there would be 202 players and 42 clubs (there is 82 and 9). And I did not write this to say that Spain is not doing an excellent job in their promotion. I just wanted to highlight the message of Heinz.
Heinz Eder wrote:5. Start to work on new statutes.
This should be the job priority of CoN before the EGM. We get a new BoD only after EGM and the statutes should be discussed in EGM.
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:49 pm

1 and 5 are really imperative but your players/population system is utter crap. What is the population of Gibraltar? (monkeys excluded). Also, sorry about that, but Gibraltar is not even a country. It is characterized as British overseas territory.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:56 pm

The rule should have a bonus for countries with many members , provided that these players participate in MORE than one FISTF tour/year. I hope you see my point.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:39 pm

Gibraltar has about 29.000 inhabitants.
So the system would work for Gibraltar too.
If Gibraltar can be considered as an individual country in FISTF is the decision of the FISTF Board or the congress.

Heinz

panagios wrote:1 and 5 are really imperative but your players/population system is utter crap. What is the population of Gibraltar? (monkeys excluded). Also, sorry about that, but Gibraltar is not even a country. It is characterized as British overseas territory.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:01 pm

The intervention of Heinz I like. I agree with almost everything (I do not agree only with point 1) and we have written the letter does not set any rules. It's just a proposal.

It is absolutely clear that we are willing to respect all the diverse and particularities of each country. But we always clear that we need regulamentar to grow.

What is perfectly clear is that we try to make table soccer become a sport.

And we sit down and discuss with all who feet the same.

Piero

(ps. Gibraltar is not a country and a day may have a problem with that. Especially in Spain)

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:16 pm

FISTF is not qualified to judge against UN rulings Heinz.

Piero , what is your objection with point 1 ? I am amazed!

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:26 pm

Of course you are right.

panagios wrote:FISTF is not qualified to judge against UN rulings Heinz.


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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:34 pm

Why I do not agree with point 1?

Because FISTF must be impartial. We can not favor one product or another.

The FITF must guarantee the respect of trade rules. You can sign trade agreements but with transparency.

The distribution of a toy is something else.

But toys can disappear ...... and FISTF must follow.

Piero

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:54 pm

That Gibraltar is a country or not is not a problem. It's just the fact that they have a national association recognized by FISTF, just like Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and England are recognized while these "countries" don't exist (they are just "Great Britain" or "United Kingdom").

FIFA has more members than the UN but nobody sees it as a problem...

That one day Tibet becomes a member of FISTF is in theory not a problem. The rest is just about politics...
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:57 pm

So, what you say Vin is that should the Dutch speaking part of Belgium apply for membership in FISTF , that should not be a problem?

Piero, no one spoke of exclusivity. The game should be in the shelves of every country. This is the issue. Just make it happen.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:57 pm

That table football should become a sport is an old debate. We play for 60 years now and the game is still not sold in sports shops, just in toys shops. To get credibilty, it requires much more than wearing nice club jerseys at tournaments. Even the question to let players drink beers at tournament is not a real problem...

Before we say table football is a sport,t here is really much to change and the first thing to change is the mentality of players. And that's how I believe it will be difficult as far as many top players don't even practice once a week in club meetings and only play tournaments... I'm not even sure how many of the world's top 100 players have their own table at home...
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:58 pm

panagios wrote:So, what you say Vin is that should the Dutch speaking part of Belgium apply for membership in FISTF , that should not be a problem?
For this particular exemple, I would say NO for sure (at least NOW). But there are other exemples that could lead to special situations.
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:03 pm

Also, Vincent, do not compare Gibraltar with the other British countries because they are countries whereas Gibraltar is not. The definition of the term country is not for dispute.

I understand that FISTF has very few active member countries, but a certain level of legality is of paramount importance. Probably the only objection for Gibraltar will come from Spain (it is well known) but everyone should respect this objection. If this policy is applied, FISTF may end up being characterized as being plain uneducated.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:05 pm

Admin wrote:
panagios wrote:So, what you say Vin is that should the Dutch speaking part of Belgium apply for membership in FISTF , that should not be a problem?
For this particular exemple, I would say NO for sure (at least NOW). But there are other exemples that could lead to special situations.

Why not , and what are these examples if you may?

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:13 pm

Of course i can also add a 6th point which should be clearified by a FISTF Board.

6. The requirements to become a recognized sport in each country where a legal association is existing.

Doing that will show us how far away we are from being a world wide sport. The recognized sport should be the final step after a load of steps which need to be done before.
Only to write we want to be a sport doesn't make us a sport. So far nobody laid a plan on the table how to become a sport and nobody knows how long it could take to reach that goal.
I don't say it is not realistic, but you need a plan for that with steps which are coherent in itself.

Only with promotion in a shopping mall without material in shops we don't need even to think about it to become a recognized sport.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:16 pm

Nothing against the people of Gibraltar , but I quote from the CIA site:

Country name:
conventional long form: none
conventional short form: Gibraltar

Dependency status:
overseas territory of the UK

Government type:
NA

Capital:
name: Gibraltar
geographic coordinates: 36 08 N, 5 21 W
time difference: UTC+1 (6 hours ahead of Washington, DC during Standard Time)
daylight saving time: +1hr, begins last Sunday in March; ends last Sunday in October

Administrative divisions:
none (overseas territory of the UK)

Independence:
none (overseas territory of the UK)

National holiday:
National Day, 10 September (1967); note - day of the national referendum to decide whether to remain with the UK or join Spain

Constitution:
5 June 2006; came into force 2 January 2007

Legal system:
the laws of the UK where applicable apply

Suffrage:
18 years of age; universal; and British citizens who have been residents six months or more

Executive branch:
chief of state: Queen ELIZABETH II (since 6 February 1952); represented by Governor Vice Admiral Sir Adrian JOHNS (since 26 October 2009)
head of government: Chief Minister Peter CARUANA (since 17 May 1996)
cabinet: Council of Ministers appointed from among the 17 elected members of the Parliament by the governor in consultation with the chief minister
(For more information visit the World Leaders website )
elections: the monarchy is hereditary; governor appointed by the monarch; following legislative elections, the leader of the majority party or the leader of the majority coalition is usually appointed chief minister by the governor

Legislative branch:
unicameral Parliament (18 seats: 17 members elected by popular vote, 1 for the speaker appointed by Parliament; members serve four-year terms)
elections: last held on 11 October 2007 (next to be held not later than October 2011)
election results: percent of vote by party - GSD 49.3%, GSLP 31.8%, Gibraltar Liberal Party 13.6%; seats by party - GSD 10, GSLP 4, Gibraltar Liberal Party 3

Judicial branch:
Supreme Court; Court of Appeal

Political parties and leaders:
Gibraltar Liberal Party [Joseph GARCIA]; Gibraltar Social Democrats or GSD [Peter CARUANA]; Gibraltar Socialist Labor Party or GSLP [Joseph John BOSSANO]

Political pressure groups and leaders:
Chamber of Commerce; Gibraltar Representatives Organization; Women's Association

International organization participation:
Interpol (subbureau), UPU

Diplomatic representation in the US:
none (overseas territory of the UK)

Diplomatic representation from the US:
none (overseas territory of the UK)

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:11 pm

Considering Gibraltar was already a member nation of FISA 30 years ago, I don't see why it couldn't be a member of FISTF...
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  MassiveAttack on Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:16 pm

You are sure that Gibraltar, or India, or Australia, or Malaysia is the problem?
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:19 pm

MassiveAttack wrote:You are sure that Gibraltar, or India, or Australia, or Malaysia is the problem?
No, all these nations are not the problem of FISTF.
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  panagios on Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:20 pm

I do not want to make this discussion political. So, to cut this short , I will tell you one word: precedence.

I have nothing against anyone playiong anything. All I am saying is that when we talk about country memberships , we should stick to the letter of the law.

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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

Post  MassiveAttack on Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:20 pm

Admin wrote:
MassiveAttack wrote:You are sure that Gibraltar, or India, or Australia, or Malaysia is the problem?
No, all these nations are not the problem of FISTF.

Then?
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Re: Open letter from the italian and spanish associations

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