Extraordinary Congress

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:36 pm

maxischn wrote:this reminds me of an old song for children, called "10 little indians"

and now it goes like

4 Little Boardmemb.....Indians thougth they were as smart as they can be,
one was sentenced by court and then there were three.

3 Little Boardmemb.....Indians.... and so on Wink

and then there were none Very Happy

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Thomas Vulpes on Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:36 pm

cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Admin on Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:39 pm

maxischn wrote:this reminds me of an old song for children, called "10 little indians"

and now it goes like

4 Little Boardmemb.....Indians thougth they were as smart as they can be,
one was sentenced by court and then there were three.

3 Little Boardmemb.....Indians.... and so on Wink

and then there were none Very Happy
Watch the FISTF website. It's so true.
http://www.fistf.info/?q=node/1
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Subby1109 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:26 pm

Is this the end of Catania? I say yes.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Thomas Vulpes on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:54 pm

who is the next Alan COLLINS or Silvio CATANIA? I hope both today
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Subby1109 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:17 pm

Thomas Vulpes wrote:who is the next Alan COLLINS or Silvio CATANIA? I hope both today

both Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  drastis on Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:20 pm

Can anyone please publish the letter Catania sent about Koutroumanos and the matter of Greece?

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  von K. on Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:14 am

When did Garnier resign? I don't remember that.

drastis wrote:Can anyone please publish the letter Catania sent about Koutroumanos and the matter of Greece?

Sorry, but the information was sent by Alan Collins, and it was followed with a sentence about priviledged information, so I don't want to risk anything.

The information by Collins was that Koutroumanos is no longer in the BoD and no longer President of Greek federation. And that all Greek FISTF activity (membership and tournaments) are cancelled until a new board is elected.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  kechris on Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:11 am

von K. wrote:
Sorry, but the information was sent by Alan Collins, and it was followed with a sentence about priviledged information, so I don't want to risk anything.

Ι cann't undestand. The BoD took a decision for table socccer and this decision is private?!
I heard for cancel and postpone everything in Greece. How we can inform the rest Greek players without official announce? With unofficials whispers?!

Congratulations. Everycorner in Europe has informations but no in Greece.
Mr Collins you must sent especially to me this letter. You can find easy my mail. I am founder member of PATFAP and after of court decision i am one of the five members responsible for the elections.
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Belphigor on Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:16 am

von K. wrote:When did Garnier resign? I don't remember that.

drastis wrote:Can anyone please publish the letter Catania sent about Koutroumanos and the matter of Greece?

Sorry, but the information was sent by Alan Collins, and it was followed with a sentence about priviledged information, so I don't want to risk anything.

The information by Collins was that Koutroumanos is no longer in the BoD and no longer President of Greek federation. And that all Greek FISTF activity (membership and tournaments) are cancelled until a new board is elected.

Very special to see Collins is spreading information then Catania. Whats the big idea? The only good thing he ever can do is to resign too, very quick...

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:17 pm

We still haven't seen anyone with a plan running for president of FISTF.
apparently there is a good number of people not happy with this AND the previous board. therefore, a new plan and vision IS needed

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:47 pm

panagios wrote:therefore, a new plan and vision IS needed

Well, the plan is easy: Re-establish processes and procedures in the daily business (Handbook, Calendar, World Ranking, Disciplinary Council), find a Sports Director, evaluate tournament structure (do we need a fifth Major ?), get back to communciation to all share-/stakeholders ... and a few other little things. The business has to be run smooth and comprehensible !

We don't need another vision. People with visions should go to the doctor ! We need a strategy. But that's another story.

Janus
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Admin on Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:57 pm

Other priority: to get everybody together again. Many nations and clubs have been forgotten and felt excluded of FISTF. We need to get everyone back!
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:58 pm

So Janus you are clearly against a new vision for TF. You just want things to be done as before.
ok.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:22 pm

Doing it like that shows clearly that some people didn't seem to understand the situation, sorry.
Of course I think the previous board was a good one, but there were 8 nations who called for an EGM because they were not happy at all. Do you really think that only getting back on the previous track will satisfy those 8 countries now, only because they know what happened after january.
It would be a better way to restart some things which ran good before, but a new board also should consider the reasons why those 8 countries decided to call for an EGM in january.
Another time there is nothing mentioned about organizational changes, but some people really think, if we get rid of that board everything will be as it was before. Instead of taking the chance to think about real changes, we only want back to the time when it was better than now.

Sorry, but this way will fail too. We need to learn out of mistakes and happenings for the future.

Heinz

Janus_Gersie wrote:
panagios wrote:therefore, a new plan and vision IS needed

Well, the plan is easy: Re-establish processes and procedures in the daily business (Handbook, Calendar, World Ranking, Disciplinary Council), find a Sports Director, evaluate tournament structure (do we need a fifth Major ?), get back to communciation to all share-/stakeholders ... and a few other little things. The business has to be run smooth and comprehensible !

We don't need another vision. People with visions should go to the doctor ! We need a strategy. But that's another story.

Janus

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:42 pm

My point exactly!

there is a need for changing things, for accomodating all different ideas.
I understand that the first step to be taken is what Janus said, but other things must also be done almost immediately.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:09 pm

panagios wrote:So Janus you are clearly against a new vision for TF. You just want things to be done as before.
ok.

The current FISTF BoD is reaching its end and all of us must react in the proper way.
FISTF needs to return back to the situation before January 2010. The situation was not good enough for a lot of people, but FISTF worked much better than last year with the current BoD.
We must study what we must change on FISTF refering to December 2009 as a restarting platform and start working from this point.
A lot of situations must be improved but, as Vincent said, we must reunite everybody in FISTF, and all those people must feel they belong to FISTF again. This is the right way, in my humble opinion.
Only then, it will be possible having a new vision for TF and we all must help.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:42 pm

Heinz explained the situation perfectly.

I agree with 100%.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Admin on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:24 pm

The thing also is to prevent silly situations where everybody thinks he's right to do a lot of smal or big changes.

The sports department for instance will never make everyone happy, that's 100% sure. The problem is that in the last 16 months (since the WC in the Netherlands), some nations wanted to influence too much some points. But was it supposed to be better?

- was it better to say "we'll qualify 16 players in U15, U19 and ladies categories throught he world rankings" (instead of 8 )?
- was it better to say "we're going to make new rules about the membership of players" (while everything was in the handbook and most people in the meeting in Rain seemed to have never read the handbook (or not undestood it))?
- was it better to say "we'll have a 5th Major just because we think greece deserve it"?

Sorry but most of the time, you have to think in a way such as "will a change put a major improvement to FISTF?" If you are not sure it will pu a major improve, don't change things.

Otherwise, you can have a lot of changes every month. That's not what we need.

I could say "in the new FISTF, Challengers will be closed to the top 150 players (instead of 200) and the Futures to the top 200 (instead of 300)" but if I'm not sure it will bring a major improvement, should we change it?

It's also important to have a sports department with people who know the game (Olivier, Vesa, Manu, Freddy, Heinz, Chris Aggelinas,...) and that people respect these people and stop complaining all the time. The sports department must be in the hand of people who know the sport!!!

And when very big changes are on the table (for instance the creation of the Europa League), there must be a vote from every nation (something like the Council of Nations). But the Council of Nations has to work because every member should vote by giving the opinion of his country, not a personal opinion (this has caused too much trouble already).

The other important thing is about communication. A website, a blog (included int he website) and a newsletter are needed and compulsory. We need regular updates, important datas,... That's the key to success.

The Boards of 2002-2006 and 2006-2009 were not perfect but at least the sports department and the communication were working well.

For the big projects sich as "professionalism", I believe it's up to nations to show the way. FISTF will not be "professional" if the big nations don't even manage to be professional. And I believe even Italy and Spain have a lot to learn before being close to "something more professional".
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:29 pm

panagios wrote:So Janus you are clearly against a new vision for TF. You just want things to be done as before.
ok.

I am not against a new vision of TF. I said we need a new strategy. What we found with the current board was a vision compared with the disability to run the daily business. So it came to the desaster we are no facing with. A new board has to do crisis management in order to rebuild the structure. I am proposing to stand on the ground first (or again) before we can start with something new.


Heinz Eder wrote: Doing it like that shows clearly that some people didn't seem to understand the situation, sorry.
Of course I think the previous board was a good one, but there were 8 nations who called for an EGM because they were not happy at all. Do you really think that only getting back on the previous track will satisfy those 8 countries now, only because they know what happened after january.
It would be a better way to restart some things which ran good before, but a new board also should consider the reasons why those 8 countries decided to call for an EGM in january.
Another time there is nothing mentioned about organizational changes, but some people really think, if we get rid of that board everything will be as it was before. Instead of taking the chance to think about real changes, we only want back to the time when it was better than now.
Sorry, but this way will fail too. We need to learn out of mistakes and happenings for the future.

Please give me some examples what and how you would like to change ("real changes"). It is not the right time to have a new layout of FISTF. We need stable procedures again first.

And you should ask yourself honstly: who will be able to do all what you would like to have ? And how much time does a new board gets from the community ? What you are asking for is a fulltime job. Who should handle all that ????
Please come down to Earth !

Janus
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Thomas Vulpes on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:30 pm

It must first be restored and the foundation that is only as
Janus has said. Only then can you make step by step changes. Otherwise
we divorced.
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  von K. on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:47 pm

kechris wrote:
von K. wrote:
Sorry, but the information was sent by Alan Collins, and it was followed with a sentence about priviledged information, so I don't want to risk anything.

Ι cann't undestand. The BoD took a decision for table socccer and this decision is private?!
I heard for cancel and postpone everything in Greece. How we can inform the rest Greek players without official announce? With unofficials whispers?!

Congratulations. Everycorner in Europe has informations but no in Greece.
Mr Collins you must sent especially to me this letter. You can find easy my mail. I am founder member of PATFAP and after of court decision i am one of the five members responsible for the elections.

The email was private. I don't know think the information was. That's why I can only write this in my own words.

The email was also sent to Chris Aggelinas. Maybe you can ask him about it.

I agree, that it's ridiculous that this is not sent as a circular and not by Catania himself.

But again, please remind me of what happened to Garnier and when? I really don't remember.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  von K. on Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:20 pm

De Francesco writes in the italian forum, that the greek court has not removed Koutroumanos from his post as the President of the association, but only ruled that new elections must take place.

The information apparently comes from Papakonstantinou. And is not along the lines of Collins' information.

It would be interesting to see the verdict. I really can't understand a ruling that states that illegally elected president can continue at the job.

Of course it's mainly a subject for the greeks, but still it also affects FISTF.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  kechris on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:04 pm

De Francesco must stop taking informations by persons like Papakonstantinou and Koutroumanos.
De Francesco must stop talking lies to rest Italian players.
De Francesco must ask to hear both sides. And he must use his brain before he writes fool comments in forums.
I cann't believe how the italian players voted that person in Italian BoD...
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  von K. on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:44 pm

De Francesco added that an official information about this would be after 15 days (I don't quite understand this sentence). And that the greek law gives the possibility to postpone the verdict of the court by 1 year (again I don't know how this could be possible in favour of the guilty person in a case like this). And in the end he writes that we are waiting for the development of the situation, and invite both sides to find an agreement to unify the greek TF.

It's a bit cryptic to me. And one wonders why the idea to help to unify the greek TF only appears important after the verdict.

This is the post by De Francesco for all to see and interpret:

"Per quanto riguarda la Grecia, il Tribunale ha chiesto di indire nuove elezioni. Congiuntamente non ha rimosso dal suo incarico Leonidas Koutromanos che quindi resta in carica sino al momento delle nuove elezioni.

Non esiste ancora nessuna comunicazione ufficiale in tal senso e non ci sarà prima di 15 giorni. Per la legge greca inoltre ci sarebbe la possibilità di posticipare la decisione del tribunale di un anno. Restiamo in attesa per conoscere gli sviluppi di tale situazione invitando sin da ora le parti in causa a trovare una soluzione che possa salvaguardare l'unità del movimento greco di calcio da tavolo. "

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