Extraordinary Congress

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:20 pm

Vinc, I am really serious about this matter, I have never attacked anyone before, I have never written anything for or against anyone (even though I have my personal opinion I keep it to myself ) for respect for the legal process. But I am really furious when someone, especially someone I respect for some reason (in this instance I respect him as a businessman), gets involved in something that is none of his business. How can anyone have a concrete view of what is going on in Greece when he only comes for a day or two? he should keep quite. Otherwise he is just being disrespectful.

I do not agree with Kostas Kechris in everything he writes, I many times have told him to shut up, but today I feel just like he does: furious

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:21 pm

Heinz, I write my answers in lines to be more clear:

- For Spain is essential FISTF!! if I wrote something else I was wrong. We need international tournaments, is the only way to confront with the rest of the world. And I do not want a division.

- To organize a tournament in Spain in a sports hall (you can ask Juan Carlos Granados and Angel Valverde for example on Murcia) need a civil liability insurance. I agree that each country is different but in many such regulations exist and is also expensive (Murcia only paid 300 euros for insurance for two days of play).

- The problem of low participation of Italy to the international events is another. The Italian track is spectacular. Play a tournament every week, tournaments with minimum average of 60/70 players, and each time will more. This year we have 45 tournaments on the calendar without regional circuits (Tuscany has another 10 tournaments with an average of 35 players ...) Just Bologna and Milan had a constant presence in the last 4 years in foreign events that were not the most important.
- The level of organization of tournaments outside of Italy is low. The economic crisis has helped and helps low participation.

- For organizing events ..... I have not spoken in Spain. I have talked about that in the last 10 years have been organized for 70 or 80% of events in the countries of the board. Something I think to normal. Spain was unable to organize anything more. When we, ask organize more things.

- I do not think that Austria wants to leave the FISTF or want to divide, are opponents who say it.

- Henize, I still think the same, you're a serious person, honest and hardworking, we disagree on 20% of things but we can always discuss and talk about all why do not you start to insult anyone.

Piero

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:23 pm

No Mr Capponi, you have not been called a fascist. You have been called something worse than a fascist , provided that you legitimate someone that abolishes democracy. Think hard and you will find out that you have a certain degree of responsibility.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:29 pm

I only said: "I think if he would win new elections. "

I can not expresses an opinion? I insulted anyone?

You have given me the fascist if you want to give you the phone of my mother, his grandfather was killed by the fascists.

Ok so quiet? The conmparaciones with the mafia and dictatorships, which kill people are eager. If we use less serious examples humor look ok?

We stopped to take us so seriously, no one else in the world does.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:34 pm

True, I have responsibility. But not on the situation in Greece.

And you have it? Could not create another federation?

And Vincent? We remember what happened in Greece and how we got here?

I have the rsponsabilidad have contributed to a wrong board, I resigned and have signed the request for new elections as. I hope everybody does the same with their care responsibilities.

FISTF But not only has the problem of Greece

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:38 pm

Please read this post carefully if you will:


I fail to see the humor somewhere.
I also take table footy very light. I believe it should be just fun. This is why I always say we should have 2 categories, 1 for people like me, 1 for people that think it is a matter of life and death. I am very serious with matters of the law though. Can you see my point of view?

PS: I have the outmost respect for your grandparents and for all those who died fighting anything that defies democarcy. It now up to us to build our legacy. Unfortunately, although I am now sure that you have been mislead, our ancestor's actions do not make us anything dear Piero. We make our mark. I always tell my fellow country men that we should stop talking about what ancient Greeks did for the world heritage since we are doing nothing to live up to them.


Last edited by panagios on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:39 pm

Piero, I only want to clearify that it is not right that 70 or 80% of the events took place in countries which were represented in the board as long as there were other candidates, when we would have another choice we would choose differently, but if there aren't candidates we can't do anything more.
Did the current board maybe ever think about it that in most cases the events can't be organized in sports halls? In Austria the hour in a sport hall cost about 100 EUR!!! (for a tournament you need about 30 hours).
We play our events in school gyms, so please tell me why we need an insurance, don't you think the school has an insurance? The board could ask for the circumstances first before they ask for a general insurance. If they would explain it like you the discussion would be different maybe, but only to send a letter telling the associations they need something like that, otherwise they will cancel tournaments isn't the best communication.
Do you think it is positive that the association blocks nearly all week-ends of the year?
Teams and players can't travel to play abroad!
There is a saying telling "Less is sometimes more".
Anyway of course it is the decision of every association, but out of that view please tell me why Italy is more important for FISTF, if less players (nearly none) travel to international tournaments?
I try to control my temper and try to criticize based on facts, sometimes it is very hard, but I don't want to attack somebody personal, because I don't know most of the people here personal met them only once or twice in my life.


pierocapponi wrote:Heinz, I write my answers in lines to be more clear:

- For Spain is essential FISTF!! if I wrote something else I was wrong. We need international tournaments, is the only way to confront with the rest of the world. And I do not want a division.

- To organize a tournament in Spain in a sports hall (you can ask Juan Carlos Granados and Angel Valverde for example on Murcia) need a civil liability insurance. I agree that each country is different but in many such regulations exist and is also expensive (Murcia only paid 300 euros for insurance for two days of play).

- The problem of low participation of Italy to the international events is another. The Italian track is spectacular. Play a tournament every week, tournaments with minimum average of 60/70 players, and each time will more. This year we have 45 tournaments on the calendar without regional circuits (Tuscany has another 10 tournaments with an average of 35 players ...) Just Bologna and Milan had a constant presence in the last 4 years in foreign events that were not the most important.
- The level of organization of tournaments outside of Italy is low. The economic crisis has helped and helps low participation.

- For organizing events ..... I have not spoken in Spain. I have talked about that in the last 10 years have been organized for 70 or 80% of events in the countries of the board. Something I think to normal. Spain was unable to organize anything more. When we, ask organize more things.

- I do not think that Austria wants to leave the FISTF or want to divide, are opponents who say it.

- Henize, I still think the same, you're a serious person, honest and hardworking, we disagree on 20% of things but we can always discuss and talk about all why do not you start to insult anyone.

Piero

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  panagios on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:44 pm

To make my point final, all of you who want and can do something about this mess, please read some of Mr Eder's posts. In several of them he keeps talking about statutes. He is the only one who does. He has been made a fool and ridiculed in many instances, he has been acused of working for the "enemy", but in my humble opinion is the only profi in this forum. Not a political mind surely, but talking sense when all the rest talk bullshit.

Alex

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:56 pm

My legacy is linked to educate my children with respect for all and live as an honest and free.

Only and always work to build, never to destroy.

But here we are not talking about us.

Piero

(Heinz respect I agree with you 1000%)

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:21 pm

Heinz,

Obviously I express myself badly.

It is well that a World Cup orgaizar the Champions League is more a problem than an opportunity. So I wrote that it is normal at the end were the people of the board in organizing it.

Therefore, in the legal dates, no one else that Greece had submitted nominations for the 2011 Champions .....

a hug.

Piero

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Admin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:01 pm

pierocapponi wrote: Therefore, in the legal dates, no one else that Greece had submitted nominations for the 2011 Champions .....
WRONG: Belgium was candidate to host it in Stembert and they sent the registration in due time. Catania just decided to ignore it.


Last edited by Admin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:01 pm

Generally I don't have a problem with the CL in Athen, I like the city and the weather is fine at that periode of the year.
The EL in Malta will be the next desaster for that new event I fear, because I don't think many teams will spend that much money for that event, where we don't know till today how many WR points the teams get for that tournament.
I see it more critical that there are 3 tournaments taking place in Greece which shouldn't be confirmed, because they were not or wrong announced.
The biggest joke is the Major, this Major is against the handbook in many points, but nobody seems to care.
At least the new board didn't even manage it to publish an actual handbook for the season 2010/2011.
The financial department ask payment in 4 weeks, which is against the last valid handbook too.
There is nothing mentioned that the EL is existing in the last valid handbook.
I can continue for hours what is running wrong at the moment in my opinion, but the board wants an insurance, do you see the priorities the same way? honestly!
The rest of the board is resistent against all the posts and proposals here, particullary they are not bad. They continue their way against the national associations, a CoN and even a sports commission.
Honestly I can't understand the italian arguments against new elections, but of course I'm not involved enough.
The previous board had its mistakes, but the seasons were running and rules were respected, we had a lack in marketing and the general secretary.
Since the meeting in january we have a lack in nearly all topics. The financial department wants organizers to pay in 4 weeks, I organized an event 3 weeks ago and still don't have any receipt from the financial department (!?).
I agree on it to ask for internet homepages from the associations, but the FISTF homepage is not updated for months (even some circulars are missed), and some of the association's homepages are not updated for months too. It is too general only to ask for a homepage, don't you think?
Most of the things of that board only look cursory, there is no plan behind, it is not good to act too spontanous. Remember what you all told us in january and what happened so far!
What about the goalkeeper?
In the circular they wrote that it has to be used with 1st of january.
Where can I buy one?
Will they recall that circular?
Where are the rules for that?
The latest handbook still gives me the possibility to use more than that type of keeper!

Currently the board doesn't manage it to do those things the old board couldn't do, because of missing human resources, and additionally they "damaged" the circuit with some unlucky decisions. There is nothing clear about the rules for the CL and EL, we saw the weak points when some countries were represented with more teams in EL than in CL, that should show every board that there is a need of modification. Maybe it really would be better, if both events are a must, to play them in the same venue as Kostas proposed.
The World Cup showed that things didn't change positive, those who complained that everybody could play the last years get the same from the new board, they filled the starter field with all subs in all categories except open and veteran, the starter fields didn't get smaller, they even got bigger.
The deals promised by the FISTF president in one of his last circulars are christmas presents or new years presents?
Where are they?
The attack of the former financial director is the next thing, where are the facts please?
It is more than questionable to attack somebody and to bring the facts "later". If somebody is attacked because of something the facts have to be shown in the same letter, that's what I await from a FISTF president.
The next thing is that the president wants to show authority when he says, if the associations attack him and his board, he will change the "nice" face into a "strong" face.
Sorry, but that's the way to handle justified critic? The bad associations want to tell the good FISTF Board its mistake, then the FISTF Board will strike back with its full power and show the associations their mistakes and cancel their membership?
The EGM is the best thing, when Silvio asked for an EGM, I would like to see his face when the previous board would act the same way, the current board is doing now. Vincent should tell them too that we will have the meeting in 6 months (that nearly would have been the GM in Rain, which the previous board proposed but that was refused by Silvio and his group), what a coincidence that it will be in Greece on the same week-end with the greek Major.
At the World Cup in Rain the president of FISTF wanted to cancel the whole event, if there would only be allowed 5 players on the sheet, a rule which became valid with the new season. The players who became veteran in the new season are not allowed to play the WC in their new category, because the WC is counted as an old season's event, but that rule had to be valid. What a coincident that the maltese open team was represented with 6 players.

Piero do you really believe in all those coincidents I showed you only in that post?
I try also to believe only in the good of the people, but it gets harder and harder and the board didn't do any move trying to convince people that they are not acting for them and their associations.
I forgot the World Grand Masters (a tournament which is not mentioned in the handbook too), the next typical way of acting of that board. The president of FISTF and organizer announces the event 3 weeks (!!!!) before, after the rest of the calender is finished!!
What a coincident that it took place in Malta, did any other country get the chance to apply officially?
The event took place on the same week-end of the Grand Prix in Berlin, politically spoken this is the biggest affront a FISTF Board can do. It is like a punch in the face of the german association and organizer of a Grand Prix which is the biggest event after the EC and a Major. It shows how important a Grand Prix seems to be for that board.
I remember the complaints when the previous board informed players in june about the Masters in november, which was totally their right.

Sorry for the long posts, but I'm really unhappy with the current situation. I'm not interested in any FISTF job, I only care about FISTF, because it was part of my daily life for 3 years. Honestly I never will understand the struggling for power of some people which is not existing if we are honest. If somebody feels better because of working in the FISTF Board, he has a personal problem in my opinion. Those people have to learn to have a more critical view on their own work in my view.

I also can say for myself that I learnt a lot iabout some people and the drive in our community in the last year, maybe some people felt the same for the previous board like I feel now, I don't know. I only can say that the previous board at least would have been able to do things like the sports commission correctly and also could respect the opinion of that commission. I also would really enjoy it to work in combination with the associations and sports commission, unfortunately people didn't care as much as they seem to do now.

pierocapponi wrote:Heinz,

Obviously I express myself badly.

It is well that a World Cup orgaizar the Champions League is more a problem than an opportunity. So I wrote that it is normal at the end were the people of the board in organizing it.

Therefore, in the legal dates, no one else that Greece had submitted nominations for the 2011 Champions .....

a hug.

Piero


Last edited by Heinz Eder on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:34 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Admin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:05 pm

Sorry for the long posts, but I'm really unhappy with the current situation. I'm not interested in any FISTF job, I only care about FISTF, because it was part of my daily life for 3 years.
Totally agree with Heinz. Exactly the same for me but... 7 years.
In January I said FISTF was over for me but when I see all the things destroyed by people who take wrong decisions all the time, it's really sad.
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:28 pm

Heinz, I agree with you, for that reason I asked, and I am calling a special congress.

A single point you and Vincent surely you have right to write what you will, a vested right to work, much of the rest, I BELIEVE only make literature.

Piero

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:37 pm

sorry i don't get your point of that post.

pierocapponi wrote:Heinz, I agree with you, for that reason I asked, and I am calling a special congress.

A single point you and Vincent surely you have right to write what you will, a vested right to work, much of the rest, I BELIEVE only make literature.

Piero

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:08 pm

You and Vincent are the only ones have worked for the world of the football table.
The others just write a lot

Vincent y tu sois los unicos que habeis trabajado para el futbol de mesa mundial.
Los demas solo escriben mucho.

Tu e Vincent siete gli unici che avete lavorato per il calcio da tavolo mondiale.
Gli altri solo scrivono.


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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Thomas Vulpes on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:49 pm

I read here all because of my not so good English, I write only occasionally. Catania is important is the way with his kind and the person in office will act democratically. There are people who would work for FISTF their English is better
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  kechris on Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:10 pm

Dear Pierro

I respect your opinions but i don't agree with them.
I believe that you care for tablesoccer's future but you gave your confidence in wrong people.
So i have only few words for you.
Don't gave your respect in people with new and expensive clothes or big luxury houses but in people who are fair and honest.
My parents gave me good advices so i follow them and now i give the same advices to my children.
And one advice for you.
Don't make business with people who did illegal elections because they wanted to been president but with people who asked by the law to decide and they wait for more than two years.

I know who pay your (you and mr Guerero) tickets and who pay your hotel -in Athens last weekend- very close (50m) to Koutroumanos house. Maybe i cann't spend money for tickets and hotels but i spend my time and my love to help table soccer and total soccer in Greece. You met 10 parents and 10 boys and you understand who will win in elections?

p.s my neighbour is bussinesman and he loves the expensive cars and he has a porsche. At least three times per year he has an accident.
I also love the cars but i am taxi driver. I have a skoda. But in 15 years with more kilometres i have only once accident.
The next time in Athens if you come with your family, who you will select as your driver? me or my neighbour?
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  kechris on Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:22 pm

pierocapponi wrote:You (Heinz) and Vincent are the only ones have worked for the world of the football table.
The others just write a lot

Many people work for our favourite game. And many people select writing in forums because they are not members in BoD.
How many years experience had the members of last BoD except? You Catania koutroumanos and Tagliafferi? All together maximum 20 years.
Now one year later you are more clever. So can you understand the feelings of people with 30 years experience?
I am not a writer. I am a table soccer fan who i fight for the future against the "houdini newcomers).
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  von K. on Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:52 pm

Piero, you said Catania will not be the only dictator in the EGM. Writing this contradicts very much that you say you agree on with Heinz. I'm really puzzled.

pierocapponi wrote:
The law says that a person is innocent until proven guilty, and also there are several levels of JUSTICE to reach a final decision.

Also in Greece.

Do you mean that people convicted of murder should also be innocent and continue with the normal life until the final level of justice is reached? This is what you are saying here. In many countries it can take 5 years or even more to reach the highest level.

Think again.

pierocapponi wrote:
Take this opportunity to remind the board of Catania (I remember that I'm not in it and I'm the developer of the new Special Congress) was elected democratically.

But it is easy to forget the democratic process does not matter.

It was elected democratically, but it was only until Rain.

It seems easy to forget that cancelling elections in Rain made this Board illegal.

pierocapponi wrote: much of the rest, I BELIEVE only make literature.

You mean other writers than Vincent and Heinz? So the things that are written are not important? You say it's important who writes them? Nice.

And how could, for example, I do anything, when the Commission where I contributed, was completely ignored by Catania?

But I hope it was again a misunderstanding.

Today we played with finnish rules a very small tournament (Dies Sanctorum Innocentium -Cup) among 4 friends. We also discussed the FISTF situation and the ridiculous insurance demand (one of the players works in an insurance company). I was the only player actively interested in the international events (outside Finland), but the others' interest had been growing. Today they said that they couldn't care less for something as idiotic as this FISTF. And I didn't say anything for them to come to this conclusion. They know the situation.

We had perfect time. No one was missing FISTF, and none of the others will be interested in it after the Catania era.

By the way, the total playing years of Subbuteo between the four of us is about 110 years. So no spring chickens there.

Just a small sidetrack story of the damaging effect of the current Board. To remind what makes many people play, and what drives them away.

FISTF tournaments and activity should be able to offer something desireable compared to our little friendly tournament. But all it does at the moment is anger intelligent people who don't see any reason or sense in many things, and see this lack of democracy as total nonsense.

I also spoke to my french friend (not a player, a manager at Nokia) about this. And he just couldn't believe his ears, when I asked him if he knows where to contact in France to seek legal help on this.

So does Catania really think this is good publicity for the game and FISTF? How can anyone promote a game like this? "Yes it's an international game. No we don't have democracy. OK, bye bye..."

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Lorenzo on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:27 am

Hi guys,

I think you misjudge Piero’s intentions. It’s a matter of focus.

You regard tablesoccer as a game. He and Stefano De Francesco regard it more like a part of their lives.

You say that Catania’s board is a failure as far as ranking, calendar and communications are concerned. They would probably agree to this. But what they really want is to give cdt a chance to survive beyond our generation. And this, they believe, can only be accomplished by turning it into a ‘serious’ sport, and by switching the focus of FISTF from gaming issues to matters like promotion, marketing and above all else the recruitment of a new and younger generation of players.

They feel that the present Board has the will to work in this direction. They don’t oppose Vincent, but rather his philosophy of FISTF as a merely gaming association, uninvolved with long-term issues.

Now let’s come to the present situation. A separation would be a disaster for all of us. Let’s see weather we can work out a compromise.

We should try to use everybody's talents to our mutual advantage. The sport department doesn’t work? Let’s reinstate Père as sporting director, but this time with full responsibility and an assurance that his decisions won’t be overruled by other Board members. He may even close down the Europe Cup if he so wishes. The communication dept. is a catastrophe? Koutrumanos admits to it. Vincent could become director, under the same conditions of independence and full responsibility as given to Père. Nobody can imagine a better director.

Both departments shall be in full gear soon.

On their part, the Northern countries should agree to grant legal status to their national associations, and accept the fundamental idea to devote some effort to promotion, marketing and player’s recruitment. Each national federation should appoint a person in charge of such matters.

In concern with the quite divisive voting issue… there will be minimal requirements for the national federations to be granted voting rights, but all national federations meeting them shall have one single vote only – no multiple votes allowed.

It’s just an idea. I posted it on subbuteoforum.it: http://www.subbuteoforum.it/public/forum/index.php?showtopic=16325&st=15&gopid=257992&#entry257992

Do you deem it acceptable? If not, please write what you would like to see changed in plain words. Don’t get lost in a long list of divisive details. Concentrate on the big picture, and try to be constructive.

We all need to be ready to make sacrifices, or FISTF won’t stand a chance.
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:37 am

I never said that Catania is a dictator, I don't think he takes most decisions on his own, but he is the one who publish them and he is president.

von K. wrote:Piero, you said Catania will not be the only dictator in the EGM. Writing this contradicts very much that you say you agree on with Heinz. I'm really puzzled.


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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:12 am

Lorenzo, please tell me some things.
Why do you think the "northern" countries don't promote the game/sport?
What countries are the "northern" for you?
You write in your post we should stop dividing people, you even divide the whole world in "northern" and "southern".
It isn't new too, that we hadn't enough "dreamers" in the previous board and that we have only "dreamers" in the current board. It is well known that we would need a mix of both, but do you think it is a coincident that although knowing that we don't have the right mixture in form of a new board?
Would you like to work with a president who banned you some months ago, which should be decided by an independent disciplinary council?
Do you think the current president would accept that departments make their independent decisions?
The current president had a sports director with a commission, who would do that, but as it seems he didn't let them.
The current board don't seem to trust in the rules, otherwise it wouldn't be so important to change the people in the DC for an example.
Rules are made that nobody can act out of personal interests, it is very easy. There are different instances with rules the people are only sitting there to represent the written rules and take decisions, because the paper, where they are written down can't do that on its own.
Those who don't care for rules need people who take the "right" decisions.
At the moment when the people who are sitting there decide against written rules, it becomes strange and can't be argumented anymore.
In the end it is very easy, you only have to read, understand and take the right decision, if you are board member or member of any other instance. Those who can't read or don't understand shouldn't take decisions.

Lorenzo wrote:Hi guys,

I think you misjudge Piero’s intentions. It’s a matter of focus.

You regard tablesoccer as a game. He and Stefano De Francesco regard it more like a part of their lives.

You say that Catania’s board is a failure as far as ranking, calendar and communications are concerned. They would probably agree to this. But what they really want is to give cdt a chance to survive beyond our generation. And this, they believe, can only be accomplished by turning it into a ‘serious’ sport, and by switching the focus of FISTF from gaming issues to matters like promotion, marketing and above all else the recruitment of a new and younger generation of players.

They feel that the present Board has the will to work in this direction. They don’t oppose Vincent, but rather his philosophy of FISTF as a merely gaming association, uninvolved with long-term issues.

Now let’s come to the present situation. A separation would be a disaster for all of us. Let’s see weather we can work out a compromise.

We should try to use everybody's talents to our mutual advantage. The sport department doesn’t work? Let’s reinstate Père as sporting director, but this time with full responsibility and an assurance that his decisions won’t be overruled by other Board members. He may even close down the Europe Cup if he so wishes. The communication dept. is a catastrophe? Koutrumanos admits to it. Vincent could become director, under the same conditions of independence and full responsibility as given to Père. Nobody can imagine a better director.

Both departments shall be in full gear soon.

On their part, the Northern countries should agree to grant legal status to their national associations, and accept the fundamental idea to devote some effort to promotion, marketing and player’s recruitment. Each national federation should appoint a person in charge of such matters.

In concern with the quite divisive voting issue… there will be minimal requirements for the national federations to be granted voting rights, but all national federations meeting them shall have one single vote only – no multiple votes allowed.

It’s just an idea. I posted it on subbuteoforum.it: http://www.subbuteoforum.it/public/forum/index.php?showtopic=16325&st=15&gopid=257992&#entry257992

Do you deem it acceptable? If not, please write what you would like to see changed in plain words. Don’t get lost in a long list of divisive details. Concentrate on the big picture, and try to be constructive.

We all need to be ready to make sacrifices, or FISTF won’t stand a chance.

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:45 am

There is also a real need to have someone who should tell Stefano De Francesco to stop lying all the time. This guy is worse than Pinocchio. On the italian forum, he's telling italian players stories where "he's the good and perfect one" and all the others are "bad". The problem is that when he gives an opinion, I can agree he's not right but we have to respect his opinion. The reality is that he's a liar. For instance, he just wrote that the tournament in Mons has had a decrease in players over the last few years. The numbers are as follows:
2002: 172 players
2003: 182
2004: 192
2005: 195
2006: 164
2007: 208
2008: 213
2009: 218
2010: 238

De Francesco should also stop telling everyone that the former Board was "so so so bad" because India had become a member nation. Yes, they had paid the money (and Heinz, Thossa and Fred can all say we were very surprised) but how did it influence everyday's life at FISTF? Is it better to have a Board that accept a country that pays his membership fee even if the activity is almost nothing or to have a Board that totally doesn't care about players outside Europe?

When De Francesco says Olivier Père can not manage the sports department, it's a joke. In table football, Olivier is one of the rare people who has nothing to prove. On the other side, De Francesco (but also Piero Capponi) have never proved anything for table football outside their country.

So when I see the people who post on this forum don't do much, I believe some people are really not in a good position to criticize.

By the way, all changes made since january 2010 should not be taken into account as the new Board has not even been able to update the FISTF Handbook, which is the only document stating the existing rules in table football. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Extraordinary Congress

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:21 pm

Vincent, you read what you wrote Lorenzo?

Not true?

Heinz, the same speech is worth all the board, also for the board where you or were you not?

If so, I would swear that your board has always respected the rules?

We are talking about the past, but no one explains how we came out of this situation.

Voting? ok, but to whom?

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Re: Extraordinary Congress

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