World Masters in Malta

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World Masters in Malta

Post  Rob Smith on Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:12 am

http://www.fistf.info/?q=node/181

is this a joke?

how can an event be organised in less than 4 weeks?

it takes that long to get confirmation normally!

is there favouritism from FISTF towards Malta these days as this date clashes with the GP of Berlin?

i've been away for a while, anything changed?
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Admin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:16 am

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Thossa on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:35 am

Un-be-lie-a-ble!!!!
Against all logic - without any need - contrary to the handbook - simply needless and a smack in the face of Marcus Tilgner.
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:50 am

i thought the same when i saw the mail yesterday.
they are only doing anything without any smallest piece of thinking.
some people in that board seem to be very far away of any reality.
strange thing, nobody asked if somebody wants to organize the tournament and now it is in Malta.
Some people doesn't seem to know that it would be cheaper to know something about the tournament at least 6 months before. Maybe the organizer only wants people from Greece, Italy and Malta!?
I also would be very upset, if FISTF place such a tournament on the same week-end like I want to organize my tournament.
I'm pretty sure Olivier isn't informed about that too. Even if the tournament is not for the ranking, the sports department should decide about that, in the end Silvio wrote in the name of FISTF.
It is a big shame.
The board members from Greece and Malta really think they are in a self-service storage. If it will continue like that, I agree on it to wait with new statutes and call immediately for new elections.


Thossa wrote:Un-be-lie-a-ble!!!!
Against all logic - without any need - contrary to the handbook - simply needless and a smack in the face of Marcus Tilgner.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  von K. on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:04 am

Interesting that this was probably the first information that was co-signed by someone else than Catania.

I don't know how this has been done before, but it seems a bit much to pay for two nights at a hotel etc. for players (+ I believe some expenses of the FISTF referees, Alan Collins perhaps?).

How about using the money for real promotion or the website...? (Of course, no problem if there is a sponsor paying for this.)

I'm sure there would have been others interested in organising, too.

And to do this only 4 weeks in advance, means that, due to the hurry, it will probably be played at "Matla" (the Mattesburg (sic) logo was never corrected)... But the reason is clear. Time is running out at the self service warehouse...

And are some of those players going to Berlin?

How was this done before (maybe it was like this)? And when and where was the last Masters?


Last edited by von K. on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Thossa on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:04 am

Of cause this is a discreditation of Olivier Peré as Sports Director. And watch out: it is undersigned by Catania & (!) Collins... what a joke, true real satire!!!

Heinz Eder wrote:i thought the same when i saw the mail yesterday.
they are only doing anything without any smallest piece of thinking.
some people in that board seem to be very far away of any reality.
strange thing, nobody asked if somebody wants to organize the tournament and now it is in Malta.
Some people doesn't seem to know that it would be cheaper to know something about the tournament at least 6 months before. Maybe the organizer only wants people from Greece, Italy and Malta!?
I also would be very upset, if FISTF place such a tournament on the same week-end like I want to organize my tournament.
I'm pretty sure Olivier isn't informed about that too. Even if the tournament is not for the ranking, the sports department should decide about that, in the end Silvio wrote in the name of FISTF.
It is a big shame.
The board members from Greece and Malta really think they are in a self-service storage. If it will continue like that, I agree on it to wait with new statutes and call immediately for new elections.


Thossa wrote:Un-be-lie-a-ble!!!!
Against all logic - without any need - contrary to the handbook - simply needless and a smack in the face of Marcus Tilgner.
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:25 am

I don't care who signed it, it only shows that some people have absolutely no idea what they are currently doing. There is no plan or something like that behind any decision.
They have an idea and in the next minute they realize it. That's the kind of sports management we need in FISTF. Congratulations to the professional way of working, of course we can see it in any other sport too, that the world federation invites players to a small island 4 weeks before the event.
Direct Flights from Vienna to Malta cost about 500 EUR, if you have time to spend 10 hours on airports and in airplanes the tickets cost 270 EUR.
If they would plan the event for may 2011, a direct flight would only cost 199 EUR, very good management, I congratualte the people who signed that circular.

i really would like to know what movie is running in some people's head.

Thossa wrote:Of cause this is a discreditation of Olivier Peré as Sports Director. And watch out: it is undersigned by Catania & (!) Collins... what a joke, true real satire!!!

Heinz Eder wrote:i thought the same when i saw the mail yesterday.
they are only doing anything without any smallest piece of thinking.
some people in that board seem to be very far away of any reality.
strange thing, nobody asked if somebody wants to organize the tournament and now it is in Malta.
Some people doesn't seem to know that it would be cheaper to know something about the tournament at least 6 months before. Maybe the organizer only wants people from Greece, Italy and Malta!?
I also would be very upset, if FISTF place such a tournament on the same week-end like I want to organize my tournament.
I'm pretty sure Olivier isn't informed about that too. Even if the tournament is not for the ranking, the sports department should decide about that, in the end Silvio wrote in the name of FISTF.
It is a big shame.
The board members from Greece and Malta really think they are in a self-service storage. If it will continue like that, I agree on it to wait with new statutes and call immediately for new elections.


Thossa wrote:Un-be-lie-a-ble!!!!
Against all logic - without any need - contrary to the handbook - simply needless and a smack in the face of Marcus Tilgner.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Thossa on Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:36 pm

Probably "they" will say, that was decided before Olivier was signed as Sports Director, but I fear "they" will make him very quick very angry and probably FISTF has to look for a new Sports Director sooner or later, if such behaviour of "them" will not stop immediately.

Chaos, Chaos, Chaos. I saw the names of Verhagen and Bom on the list of invited players for the Gozo-Tournament. Both are already listed for the Berlin GP.

When will this extraordinary Chaos-Crew stop doing stupid things Twisted Evil Question
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Admin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:51 pm

This kind of decision is exacty the reason why I decided not to help the current Board. This Board is made of people who have no knowledge of what international table football is. Most of them have a limited experience as "sports manager" and they have a much too elitist vision of things. Therefore we are going to a situation of chaos and I don't see any solution for all this...
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  hönkki on Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:03 pm

Personally I wouldn't care too much if a handfull of old champions shall have a small tournament just for them. The only thing that makes me wonder is "the Hotel Kempinski". If FISTF have a sponsor for accommodation expensies, then I don't see a big problem. The winner can call himself "the master of the universe" if he likes. It is same to me.

BUT

if there are no sponsors and the money goes right from FISTF, then I see a problem.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:13 pm

You wouldn't care too much?
Maybe some players would like to play such a tournament, but they don't have a chance with such a short notice?
Nothing against the idea, but one more time the timing is very bad. something like that needs to be prepared at least the season before the first edition of such a tournament.
they want to promote the game, but they organize that tournament on the same week-end, when 2 World Chamapions are already playing in Berlin. Why didn't they take the third week-end of a month?

that's my problem with that event.

hönkki wrote:Personally I wouldn't care too much if a handfull of old champions shall have a small tournament just for them. The only thing that makes me wonder is "the Hotel Kempinski". If FISTF have a sponsor for accommodation expensies, then I don't see a big problem. The winner can call himself "the master of the universe" if he likes. It is same to me.

BUT

if there are no sponsors and the money goes right from FISTF, then I see a problem.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Thossa on Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:49 pm

Apart from the questions about where, when and why, I see only Open & Veteran-winners. Why not former winners of the Youth-categories? Most of them are already Open-players and luminaries anyway.

First there should be a trustable calendar at the beginn of the season and than we can think about fill the gaps.

It is all so dilettante Exclamation
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  hönkki on Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:58 pm

You wouldn't care too much?
Maybe some players would like to play such a tournament, but they don't have a chance with such a short notice?
Nothing against the idea, but one more time the timing is very bad. something like that needs to be prepared at least the season before the first edition of such a tournament.
they want to promote the game, but they organize that tournament on the same week-end, when 2 World Chamapions are already playing in Berlin. Why didn't they take the third week-end of a month?

that's my problem with that event.

Yes I wouldn't care, because it is too late now. What is the value of that tournament in this year, if some important players are missing ? Not much. To me it looked like some holiday-tournament. The people in FISTF (who ever they will be) will learn that and the next year's tournament will be better prepared. It is just a shame, if there goes a lot of money.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:03 pm

I don't want to paint the devil on the wall, but why do you think Alan Collins signed the circular too?
They replace the Masters with that tournament and the Masters was supported by FISTF.
We will know it one day, when we have elections, before that you won't get an answer if you send a request.
Or do we have the chance that the council will get more information?

hönkki wrote:
You wouldn't care too much?
Maybe some players would like to play such a tournament, but they don't have a chance with such a short notice?
Nothing against the idea, but one more time the timing is very bad. something like that needs to be prepared at least the season before the first edition of such a tournament.
they want to promote the game, but they organize that tournament on the same week-end, when 2 World Chamapions are already playing in Berlin. Why didn't they take the third week-end of a month?

that's my problem with that event.

Yes I wouldn't care, because it is too late now. What is the value of that tournament in this year, if some important players are missing ? Not much. To me it looked like some holiday-tournament. The people in FISTF (who ever they will be) will learn that and the next year's tournament will be better prepared. It is just a shame, if there goes a lot of money.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  ken on Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:36 pm

They just dig a deeper hole for themselves and expose themselves with this kind of 'decision'.
Soon they will be rulers of their own little empire - because the rest of the world will lose interest.

The question of expenses is interesting - are our FISTF Fees being used to pay for the elite?
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Zach Walker on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:59 pm

ken wrote:The question of expenses is interesting - are our FISTF Fees being used to pay for the elite?

This is one reason why the U.S. aren't FISTF members. Awarding prize money was something that the previous FISTF BoD were in favor of also, not sure if the new one is as well but I wouldn't be surprised.

FISTF money should be going towards youth scholarships to travel/play in tournaments and provide youth/schools with material in my opinion.
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Admin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:13 pm

There are no perfect decisions.

The prize-money FISTF gave was very small comparred to anything we cans ee in other sports.

Giving material is a good thing but those who have experienced stories with free donations of material know that most of the time it was wasted money. Ask for instance Enrico Tecchiati how many times he sent free material and how many times this gave really something back to the FISTF community.
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Thossa on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:38 pm

@ Zach
... as you probably will remember, I, as former BoD-member, was always against such price-money and the idea to use this money for scholarship for the youth came from me Wink

@ all
If you read the circular 50 you will not find a decleared price-money, just a donation of 50€ for every player. But the question of who pays the hotel cost for the players is really a good one. Laughing

I am really ashamed about how the provisional BoD misused their postion to push through decisions in a quick shot without logic and accuracy. And BTW without asking the Council (as promised) about a new, formed event like the "Grand Masters". If I were part of FISTF CoN I would be very angry.

Where is the venue? The platform at the Azzuro Window I guess clown

Where are the criterias for such an event, the basic of all handling? Probably it is time enough until the end of November Mad

What about the privileged candidates to participate...? 20 are named. Let´s drop out some names like the de Marco, Fuseau & Ecker. Then there were only 17. Without Bom & Verhagen only 15. Ruelle, Delogne, Frignani, Deimel...uh, I think rather not.... 11 left over. All of them are Italians & Iberiens and all of them MUST HAVE to come.
Wow pale

What if half of them don´t do it? cyclops

Thanks god there a enough maltese guest players who are world champion with the team in 2010.
SUPER !!!
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Admin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:49 pm

@Prize-money: as long as the FISTF money comes FROM the players, it's normal a part of the money goes TO the players. Much better than wasting all the money to travel to "meetings" anyway...
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  von K. on Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:15 am

This hotel Kempinski thing has to sorted immediately. If the whole money is not sponsored, then it's time for immediate checking up on the finances of FISTF.

Small prize money which is given from the participation fees (= the organiser) is not a problem. If it's from the FISTF it maybe is. All that money is needed for more important things.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:30 am

What do you want to check up?
To check up the finances you have to ask for an EGM.
The circle close again.

von K. wrote:This hotel Kempinski thing has to sorted immediately. If the whole money is not sponsored, then it's time for immediate checking up on the finances of FISTF.

Small prize money which is given from the participation fees (= the organiser) is not a problem. If it's from the FISTF it maybe is. All that money is needed for more important things.

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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Zach Walker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:13 pm

Admin wrote:@Prize-money: as long as the FISTF money comes FROM the players, it's normal a part of the money goes TO the players. Much better than wasting all the money to travel to "meetings" anyway...

2,000 players pay money to FISTF yet only 12 of the elite players get to receive that money? Something tells me that if you asked the other 1,988 players if they want their money going to the elite players, they would say no. I know I would.
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:55 pm

It's a small amopunt of money. And other players benefit the FISTF money when FISTF is organizing tournaments such as the world cup, the EC,... The Masters was created 10 years ago by Dave Baxter and Olivier Père because it was a good tool to promote the game. And I still believe this can benefit the game... as long as we find cities and organizers to host the event.
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Thossa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:40 pm

Good point, Vincent. PROMOTION.

What Kasper Bennett did with the Subbuteo Master was PROMOTION without wasting money Laughing
Arrow http://swns.com/englishman-wins-world-cup-subbuteo-championships-241325.html

What they wanna do on Gozo is something different scratch
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Re: World Masters in Malta

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:55 pm

From what I heard Silvio wants to organize the event in Gozo because of the promotion.... I'm not convinced but...
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