2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

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2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Zach Walker on Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:23 pm

Do we know yet where these two tournaments will take place in 2011? Thanks.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Admin on Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:57 pm

Not yet.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:51 am

I'm pretty sure there are only a few countries you have to take into consideration. Cool

Zach Walker wrote:Do we know yet where these two tournaments will take place in 2011? Thanks.

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  SergLoureiro on Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:54 am

Looks like they'll be organized in Greece and Malta... Seems everything happens in Italy, Greece and Malta... Disgusting!!! WTF!!!

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Corydoras seracin on Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:23 pm

From what I read, only Greece & Malta applied to organize them. Cool

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Admin on Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:56 pm

Very strange because the belgian club of Stembert is candidate, too...
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Thossa on Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:30 pm

SergLoureiro wrote:Looks like they'll be organized in Greece and Malta... Seems everything happens in Italy, Greece and Malta... Disgusting!!! WTF!!!

That´s what they can do in a "Mediterranean Association", Sergio. Probably the professional provisional FISTF BoD already think that way... Razz
Nevertheless, what if the unfortunately Sports Department decide to modify the system of this season? There are different opinions: the return to the Europa Cup as it was or playing both tournaments (CL & EL) at the same venue on the same date.

There will always a so called majority within FISTF BoD to disgrace the Sports Director with his team. As you can see, the fantastic FISTF World Grand Masters jump-started within three weeks. And like this a FISTF CoN must watch it helpless, unable to stop those nonsense.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  kechris on Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:14 pm

Thossa you have right for the mediterannean association.
But this association is only for the presidents of these associations.
We -the simple players- we are not responsible for these decisions.

BUT - for everything follow a but- i am full active player since 1982 and i remember only 3 great tournaments in Greece. W.C. 1986 by Waddington, W.C 1997 and E.C for clubs 2007 by FISTF. No major no master.
Fistf began organising tournaments about 1993. The last 17 years took place about 35 W.C and E.C. but only 2 in Greece.
Greece is one of the top class country with many and good players. But our dissadvantage is that we are far away from the center of Europe. We must organise W.C.and E.C. tournaments more often than once every ten years.
I think also that major in Amsterdam -very close to Mons- was wrong decision. Greece has more local competitors in international tournaments than other countries but none -or maximum 5- competitors by abroad. Belgium and Dutch players can travel for an hour with car and can play in 2 majors. This is unfair in world ranking for the other countries's players.
I think Athens Berlin Madrid are in front of Amsterdam for organising a major. The same for Europa and World cups.
I have play in Charleroi Namur Temploux Vervie Tournai Mons because every two years Belgium organised a big tournament. Yes we have problems the last years but why you forgot us in past?

The new BoD follow the same tactic with the all BoD in past. They give the tournaments in their countries. It is wrong but it was wrong also the last 15 years.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Admin on Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:29 pm

1) Greece has not so often been candidate to host big events
2) Greece does not make really much to attract foreign players (in general communication is very weak towards foreign players)
3) This year the GP was announced just a few days before it took place. It kills all credibility of greek table fotball in general...
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  georgy on Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:57 pm

I agree with Kechris' post 100%. Let's try to see things as they are (were).
If I am not mistaken Greece is 2nd behind Italy in the number of active players.

Admin wrote:1) Greece has not so often been candidate to host big events
2) Greece does not make really much to attract foreign players (in general communication is very weak towards foreign players)
3) This year the GP was announced just a few days before it took place. It kills all credibility of greek table fotball in general...

1) Vincent, your no1 does not have a point. So, since Greece now is always candidate to host big events, then
we should get them!!! (Or at least get more...)
2) I don't understand what you mean!! I think the problem is really just distance and travel expenses (as in Finland for example)
3) So if I was unhappy about how you run things when you were president, then this kills all credibility for Belgians?
Sorry but I think that you are wrong! Your last sentence was VERY STRONG and I find it too unfair and actually I even feel offended, especially from a person who should have done things then, but did not.

You have the right to blame the tactics, but we should also see things more clearly and try to solve problems
such as: players who do not live in central Europe and can't play as many tournaments as others.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Admin on Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:04 pm

I understand the issues about the distances, expenses but I feel like there was not enough promotion of the events in Greece, nothing that could convince western european players to travel there, to choose Athens instead of Berlin, Issy, Barcelona,... Do you see what I mean? Even the tournament websites (when they are in english) are not so "attractive".

About point 3, it's true one person is guilty but the same person is also guilty of the "5th Major" and as long as this person will be the president of the greek association (just like his "famous partner" will be involved), Greece will have no credibility at international level.

Sorry to be rude...
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  von K. on Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:43 am

George, Vincent's 1. point was an answer to Kostas post, where Kostas said that no competitions are organised in Greece. I f a country doesn't make an application for 10 years it doesn't give them the right to organise everything now. But all these decisions should be open with arguments pro and con.

Also, If I would have written the 3rd point, would your reaction be the same? It's my opinion, too, that at the moment Greece's competitions have no credibility. On top of the well known problems, the Greece applications (by illegally elected board) are voted through in the FISTF's Board (provisional with period ending on th 3rd of September) by the Greek federation President (practically the maker of applications).

Unfortunately Greece's TF loses credibility also in general because of this situation. The credibility of many other countries is also on the line when supporting the actual board. If the majority of greek players allow this system (for example GP without announcements) from their own federation, then they think it's ok.

I assume that some people there don't allow it, but it's a fact, that it hurts the credibility.

Greece has every right as a big TF country to organise big events more often. And Greece's voice has to be heard. But this is the wrong way, and easily kills the will to give Greece competitions in the future. No one (almost) accepts this kind of way, when choosing hosts.

I agree that central Europe has so many big competitions, that easier travelling possibilities distort the rankings. The ranking system and the calendar would need to be changed.

Admin wrote:Very strange because the belgian club of Stembert is candidate, too...

Not officially, I presume...

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  manairre on Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:53 am

von K. wrote: Not officially, I presume...

No, just for the fun! Laughing
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:31 pm

Some maybe will wonder, but I'm against it to say that the greek table soccer looses or lost its credibility. I think we shouldn't speak in general about the greek players, the greek association or the greek clubs.
Everybody who saw Roligans in Mattersburg or Falcons in previous editions will see that the greek table soccer has strong players and clubs who deserve respect like all the others, who don't cause any kind of problems on the table. unfortunately there are also some people (but i think in many countries there are a view of this sort) who bring miscredit to the group of players. When Olympia was in Vienna there wasn't any kind of problem too.
Also in case of organization I don't really have a bad experience, neither with the European Championship in 1997 nor with the last EC in Athens, about future events I can't say much because I don't know who will be the organizer.
Anyway the previous board gave the EC to Greece, Spain and Portugal, so to say that the previous board refused organizers from a special part of Europe is not right. If they applied they got the event in most cases.

von K. wrote:George, Vincent's 1. point was an answer to Kostas post, where Kostas said that no competitions are organised in Greece. I f a country doesn't make an application for 10 years it doesn't give them the right to organise everything now. But all these decisions should be open with arguments pro and con.

Also, If I would have written the 3rd point, would your reaction be the same? It's my opinion, too, that at the moment Greece's competitions have no credibility. On top of the well known problems, the Greece applications (by illegally elected board) are voted through in the FISTF's Board (provisional with period ending on th 3rd of September) by the Greek federation President (practically the maker of applications).

Unfortunately Greece's TF loses credibility also in general because of this situation. The credibility of many other countries is also on the line when supporting the actual board. If the majority of greek players allow this system (for example GP without announcements) from their own federation, then they think it's ok.

I assume that some people there don't allow it, but it's a fact, that it hurts the credibility.

Greece has every right as a big TF country to organise big events more often. And Greece's voice has to be heard. But this is the wrong way, and easily kills the will to give Greece competitions in the future. No one (almost) accepts this kind of way, when choosing hosts.

I agree that central Europe has so many big competitions, that easier travelling possibilities distort the rankings. The ranking system and the calendar would need to be changed.

Admin wrote:Very strange because the belgian club of Stembert is candidate, too...

Not officially, I presume...

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  kechris on Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:34 pm

Mr Koutroumanos is dangerous for the future of Greek and World table soccer but he is not deaf. He heard the greek players for the wrong system which support the central European countries and he used his power for to gain friends in Greece. He didn't gain friends but we gain a Major.
In few months Koutroumanos will be past for all of US but the greek players have the same opportunities with the other players of Europe.
Few questions by a person who didn't use very good the english language but he spend many many time to read all posts forums statutes everything about table soccer.
WHICH COUNTRIES THE LAST YEARS
HAVE THE MORE LOCAL PLAYERS IN INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS?
HAVE THE MORE CLUBS IN INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS?
HAVE THE MOST PARTICIPATIONS IN TOURNAMENTS TO ABROAD?
in all categories greece is in the top 3 positions. And if we haven't our problems we would have the double numbers.

Ask by mr Pere and mr Marinucci to gave you the list with the greek players who took part in these two Majors. More than 100 NAMES !!!!!
DO YOU KNOW HOW COST THE AIROPLANE TICKET TO ATHENS? NO. BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T USE.
BUT ALL THE GREEK PLAYERS KNOW ANYTIME THE PRICES FOR BERLIN MONS BOLOGNA WIENNA PARIS etc.

Do you know that my teammates called my "GPS" because i found last year the hotel in Paris without map. I was driving paris- tournai without map. Before three years i did tour in Brussels without map after midnight and i found Grand Place in few minutes. I know everycorner in Luton and Gatwick airport.
The reason? because i cann't count the number of my travel to abroad especially in Belgium in France in Italy...
But every year i can count with my one hand the foreign participations in Greek tournaments.

Before three years i read a comment by Philippe Hipfinger (i apologie if i wrote wrong his name) in a forum. He said that he travelled to many tournaments outside of Belgium because he wanted to collect many points, more than other Belgium players and his target was a wild card for W.C. It was difficult because the Belgium players travel to close countries so he decided to travel also to Argentina !

Do you want more proofs?
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  lélé on Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:57 pm

manairre wrote:
von K. wrote: Not officially, I presume...

No, just for the fun! Laughing

A mail with file including all informations sent to Mr Catania, is it official?? Rolling Eyes Laughing

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Admin on Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:28 pm

If it is sent by you, it's not OK, it has to be sent by the president of the belgian association. The rest is bullshit. That's what they call "professional communication", Mr Lélé Very Happy
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  kechris on Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:10 am

I thought until few months ago that responsible to receive official files was the secretary or the communication director.
If the president receives files decide for transfer for rules for tournaments for calendar for ranking then WHY WE NEED BoD WITH SEVEN MEMBERS?
Why we need a sport director who his first three proposals (no 5th major, free participation for no members, illegal the out of calendar tournaments) rejected?
Maybe they wanted mr Pere for decoration. Sorry Olivier, the comment is for Catania's team. You are a person with value 30 years active, no a toy in the hands of newcomers.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  kechris on Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:12 am

Yes Vincent. They are "professional" and we are chickens.
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  lélé on Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:51 am

Admin wrote:If it is sent by you, it's not OK, it has to be sent by the president of the belgian association. The rest is bullshit. That's what they call "professional communication", Mr Lélé Very Happy

It was send by Stembert's CQ to FBFTS president and FISTF president Wink

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:41 am

If you want reasons for it, why players are not travelling to Greece, you don't have to look on the organization side. I heard very positive comments about the tournament itself from players who have been there.
One reason is for sure the geographical situation. I think that's also the reason why greek players travel more and for bigger distance, because they don't really have a close country to play tournaments. If you could travel cheaper and closer you maybe would do less trips to central or north europe.
Of course the "image" is a part of the problem too, but I don't think it is the main reason, because before all those troubles Greece didn't attract many foreign players too as far as I know.
players from belgium don't need to travel to austria or greece, they play 4 Grand Prixs, 2 Majors, and 6 International Open in a distance closer than 800km. Look on the starter lists from the majors in Bologna and Mattersburg, you won't find many starters from Belgium for an example.
So I fear it is wrong to think that a Major in Greece will attract more foreign people from other countries.
The question is why the players are not travelling to those tournaments. Is the reason that they already have enough tournaments, or is the reason that they don't want to travel so long. If you reduce the events, you maybe will motivate some people to take a plane, or those people will play less events.
Who knows?

kechris wrote:Mr Koutroumanos is dangerous for the future of Greek and World table soccer but he is not deaf. He heard the greek players for the wrong system which support the central European countries and he used his power for to gain friends in Greece. He didn't gain friends but we gain a Major.
In few months Koutroumanos will be past for all of US but the greek players have the same opportunities with the other players of Europe.
Few questions by a person who didn't use very good the english language but he spend many many time to read all posts forums statutes everything about table soccer.
WHICH COUNTRIES THE LAST YEARS
HAVE THE MORE LOCAL PLAYERS IN INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS?
HAVE THE MORE CLUBS IN INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS?
HAVE THE MOST PARTICIPATIONS IN TOURNAMENTS TO ABROAD?
in all categories greece is in the top 3 positions. And if we haven't our problems we would have the double numbers.

Ask by mr Pere and mr Marinucci to gave you the list with the greek players who took part in these two Majors. More than 100 NAMES !!!!!
DO YOU KNOW HOW COST THE AIROPLANE TICKET TO ATHENS? NO. BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T USE.
BUT ALL THE GREEK PLAYERS KNOW ANYTIME THE PRICES FOR BERLIN MONS BOLOGNA WIENNA PARIS etc.

Do you know that my teammates called my "GPS" because i found last year the hotel in Paris without map. I was driving paris- tournai without map. Before three years i did tour in Brussels without map after midnight and i found Grand Place in few minutes. I know everycorner in Luton and Gatwick airport.
The reason? because i cann't count the number of my travel to abroad especially in Belgium in France in Italy...
But every year i can count with my one hand the foreign participations in Greek tournaments.

Before three years i read a comment by Philippe Hipfinger (i apologie if i wrote wrong his name) in a forum. He said that he travelled to many tournaments outside of Belgium because he wanted to collect many points, more than other Belgium players and his target was a wild card for W.C. It was difficult because the Belgium players travel to close countries so he decided to travel also to Argentina !

Do you want more proofs?

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:42 am

I don't think your application was even considered, because Belgium had so many events in the past, you don't need to apply for the next 10 years Laughing

lélé wrote:
Admin wrote:If it is sent by you, it's not OK, it has to be sent by the president of the belgian association. The rest is bullshit. That's what they call "professional communication", Mr Lélé Very Happy

It was send by Stembert's CQ to FBFTS president and FISTF president Wink

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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Thossa on Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:19 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:I don't think your application was even considered, because Belgium had so many events in the past, you don't need to apply for the next 10 years Laughing

lélé wrote:
Admin wrote:If it is sent by you, it's not OK, it has to be sent by the president of the belgian association. The rest is bullshit. That's what they call "professional communication", Mr Lélé Very Happy

It was send by Stembert's CQ to FBFTS president and FISTF president Wink

scratch This is a bit irritating for me, because according to the former Sports Director De Francesco this year Belgium was first choice for the Europa Cup, remember? cyclops
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  manairre on Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:35 pm

If is there best files to organize the Champions League, it isn't a problem for us. But do not take into account our own for obscure reasons is different.
Some persons knows it. To them to judge whether the file was not taken into account when they discover the quality of the next Europa Cup.

It's my last word about it. Blabla for blabla is not the solution. Speak for search the controversy and nothing else or write looking at my navel is not for me.

Persons competent to do their job...
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Re: 2011 FISTF Champions League and Europa League?

Post  Admin on Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:57 pm

About Greece: tournaments in Washington and Singapore are very good as well. They are just very difficult places to go for a tournament (or expensive). Greece is no an isolated case.
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