We are we go?

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:37 pm

the greek tournaments can't be done according on the rules. I got all requests till the WC in Rain and there was only the greek request like it is now in the calender.
Even if they would have changed that after 3rd of september, they have to request a Grand Prix four months in advance, not 6 weeks.
That is the rule according on the last valid handbook from the last season, and they didn't change that by sending out another circular.
In case of the players of Olympia the council or the board only has to ask for the greek statutes, if Kostas is right and players can't be banned because of not paying membership fees shorter than 3 years, the council or the FISTF Board immediately has to tell the greek association to stop that. If they have the right to ban players, then FISTF can't do anything against the ban of the greek federation, but FISTF Board could give them a FISTF license, which should be done in my opinion.

About the Council I only can say, that the people can show all the ciritical persons that they are wrong, if they can manage it to do positive things.
As I said the success of the council is in the hands of the people in that council.

Heinz
von K. wrote:For the subjects below (Kechris quotes) it would be nice to hear how they can be viewed positively and how a solution can be found without critiscism (which isn't negativity, in fact).

Piero or anyone else is welcome to express those solutions. I'm an idealist like Piero, but I've seen a lot in this world (although I hear from one person that I'm too young and inexperienced), and I know that sometimes positive idealism is the same as letting the negative things continue.

I was very positive going into Rain and wanted to help build something better. That's why I was very positive about the Council which was a solution without wrecking everything. But seeing some people's actions and words after Rain, I'm not positive anymore.

kechris wrote:GRAND PRIX IN ATHENS IN 3 DAYS !!!

KOUTROUMANOS IS THE COMPETITION MANAGER OF GREEK GRAND PRIX IN 23-24 OCTOBER.
BUT I CANN'T SEE THIS TOURNAMENT IN FISTF CALENDAR IN OCTOBER. I SEE THE GREEK G.P. IN 11-12 JUNE 2011 !

The greek tournaments of this autumn have to be viewed again to see, if they were done according to rules. I don't see it possible that most foreign (some greeks, too) players don't know about a tournament well beforehand and can't participate. This distorts the ranking.

kechris wrote:And the last. We cann't play in Greek G.P. because we are not members!!! But for greek law we are members and for these reasons we asked by courts before two years solution for the fake elections.

What will FISTF do if the second verdict favours Olympia and the banned players?

It's clear that they can apply for compensation at least for lost points in the ranking, and lost opportunity to play in the CL or EL. What then?

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  von K. on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:46 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:That's the reason why the council shouldn't spend time and start to work on statutes Statutes which can solve that part finally. We need strong statutes telling us exactly what to do in case of elections. The actual statutes allows something like we could see with the application of the candidates.
If the majority of countries represented in the council likes that, they should write down it clearly, if the majority doesn't want that, they need to write down what they clearly want.
Kostas you want clear rules when you play tablesoccer, we also need clear rules in our federation and organization.
That should be the main work of the council in my opinion.

Writing the statutes takes time, and there are some more urgent matters to resolve (FISTF license or something for players to be able to play).

But I agree with you that the statutes are on top of the priorities also. And after them EGM to vote for the statutes and elections (where anyone without criminal issues can be a candidate), so that we get the house of FISTF in order legally.

I don't mind who gets elected, if the rules for the Council, the Board, the Members etc. are clear before and after the elections. So that hopefully nothing like the situation now, can happen again.

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  Admin on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:49 pm

I think the question of the "licences" is quite funny and a huge waste of time. People concentrate on that just because of Greece. I'm quite sure there are no problems in all other countries...
avatar
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1330
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 43
Location : Somewhere in Belgium

View user profile http://templeuveunited.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:55 pm

but that rule creates problems in one country, so the board has normally to think about changes, or accept the problems in that country. maybe that kind of problems then will happen in other countries too!?

Admin wrote:I think the question of the "licences" is quite funny and a huge waste of time. People concentrate on that just because of Greece. I'm quite sure there are no problems in all other countries...

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:02 pm

Of course those things are important, but at the end the FISTF Board has to do that. The statutes are in the hand of the members at the elections, but things like licensing are in the hand of the board.
First possibility:
Find an agreement in the council and tell the board that the council wishes a FISTF license for all players who request such a license till 15th of november.
Second possibility:
Ask for the greek statutes and check if Kostas is right. Then you can propably help the whole club to play on national level again too.

Both ways shouldn't cost much time.

von K. wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:That's the reason why the council shouldn't spend time and start to work on statutes Statutes which can solve that part finally. We need strong statutes telling us exactly what to do in case of elections. The actual statutes allows something like we could see with the application of the candidates.
If the majority of countries represented in the council likes that, they should write down it clearly, if the majority doesn't want that, they need to write down what they clearly want.
Kostas you want clear rules when you play tablesoccer, we also need clear rules in our federation and organization.
That should be the main work of the council in my opinion.

Writing the statutes takes time, and there are some more urgent matters to resolve (FISTF license or something for players to be able to play).

But I agree with you that the statutes are on top of the priorities also. And after them EGM to vote for the statutes and elections (where anyone without criminal issues can be a candidate), so that we get the house of FISTF in order legally.

I don't mind who gets elected, if the rules for the Council, the Board, the Members etc. are clear before and after the elections. So that hopefully nothing like the situation now, can happen again.

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  Admin on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:03 pm

Maybe but on the other side there are risks of abusive behaviors.

for instance FISTF will ask the list of all players of one country (let's say RUSSIA) and one day a RUSSIAN player competes in a tournament in KOREA (it's just for the example). What will happen if FISTF notices the guy is not a member of the RUSSIAN association?

In normal time, there would be no problem because nobody would care but because of the "much too bureaucratic FISTF" we could have situations where we say the RUSSIAN player doesn't get world ranking points.

I agree it's an extreme situation but if the rules are too strict, there might be many "small" problems like this one.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1330
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 43
Location : Somewhere in Belgium

View user profile http://templeuveunited.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  stamy on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:42 pm

Concerning the "membership thing", I have sent a lot of letters to mr Catania and one letter to mr Pere mentioning that there is not the appropriate infrastructure in all nations to check membership of all players and that this rule should be applied, if it is too important, from the next year so that all nations and FISTF have the possibility to prepare things...

I also have pointed out that Greece is not the appropriate field for this rule to be applied. There is a court running and there is no point for anyone player in Greece to pay membership fees in a board that may be illegal in the second and final degree... As soon as this current Greek board is justified legal, then the whole memebership thing could be fair to be applied, NOT NOW...

However, even the very same FISTF doesn't respect anything of all those suggestions.. They insist on this rule, they insist (FISTF) for OLYMPIA's players to pay money to Greek association (!!!!) in order for us to be allowed to play....

FISTF actually doesn't respect their decisions.. FISTF doesn't respect that certain OLYMPIA's players ARE CURRENTLY MEMBERS and even their membership rule it is ILLEGAL for our banning of Athens I.O., Vienna Champion's League and the forthcoming (???) Athens G.P. this weekend.

It seems to me and all my team-mates that FISTF just DON'T WANT us to play... So, unfortunately, although there are good suggestions concerning OLYMPIA's matter by Vincent, Heinz, Thossa, Von. K. and others, these are only words, because these persons have no power at all...

P.S.1 Sorry for mentioning only for OLYMPIA's matter, while there are also other issues concerning table football community...
P.S.2 My friend Kostas Kechris of course has nothing bad to Italy when he refers that FISTF is working for Italy ect... On the contrary, we have met a lot of Italian clubs and players and we like them very much and I personally believe that not all Italians like the current FISTF situation...

stamy
Satellite winner
Satellite winner

Posts : 14
Join date : 2010-09-09

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  kechris on Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:23 pm

Ι am football fan. Before many years the referee help my team to win. I could not felt happy for the final score because i love my team but i love more the football.
What i mean? I haven't problem with Italy with Belgium with Vincent with Heinz. I have problem with the decisions which help Italian and Belgium clubs. I have problem with the persons who took wrong decisions. But when those persons change philosophie i haven't any more problem with them. I haven't personal problems to keep inside me (sorry for my english).
I have very good opinion for Olivier. He is fairplay and clever preson. I support him now. But if in future take wrong decisions i will do critism to him. I will not change easy my opinion for him but i will not stop the critism because i respect him.
I have a proposal. On the next elections all the candidates to write a letter in forum with their plans for the future. No love story but facts for the game. So we can select the best for the BoD and we can check if they said truth during the 4 years.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  von K. on Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:33 pm

Admin wrote:
On the italian forum, I read unbelievable things from De Francesco and his friends. How is it possible to read things like "there are more players in Toscany then int he whole Scandinavia so we don't have to learn from Scandinavians"?

Also on this, it would be nice to hear how we in Scandinavia should act positively to this kind of thoughts from a former Sports Director and a member of the Council?

De Francesco should find out more about real sport federations, and how they work.

The bigger countries also have to earn the respect from others, and then they get the influence they deserve.

De Francesco should also follow more about other things in life that small countries do, to get perspective. Quantity is not the same as quality. And quality regarding TF and FISTF doesn't only mean playing skills.

Too many influential people in TF are thinking about themselves and their country, and not the sport/game. I don't even want to be in the Board or in the politics of FISTF, but when I see unfairness or things going wrong, I always get involved. Finland as a member also doesn't want to control things, but wants its own place and rights as a member to be respected. And Finland has also become a member of a fair and democratic federation where it is on the same line as others. At the moment the federation is not the one Finland joined.

By the way, I read from the italian forum, that the reason for the Palermo WC to be played in July was that it was better for the italian juniors. Did anyone ask any other federation about their juniors? I did read comments, that it doesn't even matter what most countries think, because many countries don't have juniors participating.

Bad enough with this attitude regarding juniors, but the change also affects adults, but no one bothered to ask the views of other federations, before changing the time of the event. Arrogance and a lack of respect, which is only counterproductive for FISTF and the other nations idea of Italy.

And this is a huge pity, because the TF Community doesn't need a situation with Italy against many other nations. But the ball really is in Italy's court, and they need to change their official attitude.

When I read the italian forum, I feel there are marvellous and intelligent people involved, who have great ideas and great views of the sport/game (for example the idea of using ELO ranking which could suit our game better). But as here, many good ideas are just talk, because the people who have the power are not interested. Many of the people active in the italian forum would do good things for the FISTF.

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  drastis on Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:57 pm

von K. wrote:What will FISTF do if the second verdict favours Olympia and the banned players? It's clear that they can apply for compensation at least for lost points in the ranking, and lost opportunity to play in the CL or EL. What then?

I would like to correct Von K. Not only Olympia players fight against the illegally elected BoD in Greece. Players from other clubs, like my club Scarlet Battalion SC, also participate in this. My club (the oldest club in Greece, est. 1981, three times national Champions) has also been deleted from PATFAP records without any notice or excuse. I hope you were not shocked reading this. Shocked

SHAME!!

drastis
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 216
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  SergLoureiro on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:38 pm

@Von K. I totally agree with you. About De Francesco or, if you want, "Mr. Farce" and people like him, they're the "cancers" of our game...

SergLoureiro
Satellite winner
Satellite winner

Posts : 24
Join date : 2010-05-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  kechris on Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:43 am

You are very late Sergio. Look the posts 10 months before.
Then you wrote for proffesionals and i for profit sionals...
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  SergLoureiro on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:25 am

@Kostas I'm not late, one thing i always took from my mistakes, learn with them... I trusted one time, will never do the same again...

SergLoureiro
Satellite winner
Satellite winner

Posts : 24
Join date : 2010-05-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  kechris on Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:12 pm

I respect your answer Sergio.
You are a real man.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: We are we go?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum