FISTF CoN

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  drastis on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:49 pm

Really Heinz, I always have the feeling with us two that we think with totally different minds!!

In my opinion, the root of the problem is the people who got involved, not the statuses or the way of the election. We just need to get rid of these people and then talk about new better statuses.

The whole attitude of yours reminds me of the story with the guy who wants to convince the lion to share its meal with him, and he does not realise that he himself is going to be the lion's next meal!!

Heinz Eder wrote:drastis, didn't you realize that the statutes and the way of elections make the biggest problem?
We need to make new statutes in the next months and then we need proper elections.
The council needs to work fast, that we have the statutes before the preparations for the next season will start.

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:51 pm

of course it is a proper way too.
discuss it in the council. one thing must be sure in my opinion. even if the council doesn't have power according on the statutes, they should be the main player in topic of coucil in future too.

von K. wrote:Heinz, the biggest problem at this moment is not the statutes. And we can't wait for months for the statutes and then months for the EGM.

First the elections in an EGM and then the statutes with a well working, properly elected and complete, Board (and Council of course).

We can have new elections, with the new system, at the same time we vote for the statutes.

Heinz Eder wrote:drastis, didn't you realize that the statutes and the way of elections make the biggest problem?
We need to make new statutes in the next months and then we need proper elections.
The council needs to work fast, that we have the statutes before the preparations for the next season will start.

drastis wrote:Guys you are unbelievable!!!

The ship is sinking and you are talking about statuses!!! FIRST THING NOW EGM and ELECTIONS. The soonest, wherever!! No time for losing now!! After we have managed to restore democracy and discipline in FISTF, we can change the statuses and have another election with new voting system etc.

BUT, what is urgent now is to have a NEW BoD. And don't forget the new BoD will have a hard work to do, to restore things that have been damaged (communications, year-plan, results, trust between nations etc).

Hallelujah!!!


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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:06 pm

drastis, i think we agree on more things you are believing.
I agree with you that we need elections, but the difference is that you want to make elections according on the current statutes, I would prefer to do election according on new statutes. The council has at least 3 months time, if they call the EGM tomorrow.
the only question is if they manage it in 3 months to agree on other statutes.

drastis wrote:Really Heinz, I always have the feeling with us two that we think with totally different minds!!

In my opinion, the root of the problem is the people who got involved, not the statuses or the way of the election. We just need to get rid of these people and then talk about new better statuses.

The whole attitude of yours reminds me of the story with the guy who wants to convince the lion to share its meal with him, and he does not realise that he himself is going to be the lion's next meal!!

Heinz Eder wrote:drastis, didn't you realize that the statutes and the way of elections make the biggest problem?
We need to make new statutes in the next months and then we need proper elections.
The council needs to work fast, that we have the statutes before the preparations for the next season will start.

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Thossa on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:16 pm

We all, except of FISTF Communication Director, know (...and can read the minute of Rain) the Council stands over the BoD. That means actually, if the BoD take decisions, it must be proved by the Council of Nations and than the decisions are valid. Normally ! Now the Council have to make the job of the BoD. More´s a pity!

At the moment we have the situation the Council is just founding itself and need some time to find out a way how to work effective. It is a really important situation at the moment. If the Council fails, the desaster is perfect. And what I have heard from different sides, some representatives of nations misused this Council already to block the work. What a shame.

Now we are in the situation, the provisional BoD seems to be unable to do the simplest things like a good communication, results, calender, etc. They are not even able to make announced elections.

To make pressure on the whole thing it would be good if the Council would decide to make an EGM on that weekend of the 1st Major-tournement of this season and setting a time-table with deadlines to solve the problems with statutes and candidates.
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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:22 pm

of course the problem then would be that some candidates can't apply for jobs again, or do you think the procedure will change, if the statutes are the same?

Heinz

Thossa wrote:We all, except of FISTF Communication Director, know (...and can read the minute of Rain) the Council stands over the BoD. That means actually, if the BoD take decisions, it must be proved by the Council of Nations and than the decisions are valid. Normally ! Now the Council have to make the job of the BoD. More´s a pity!

At the moment we have the situation the Council is just founding itself and need some time to find out a way how to work effective. It is a really important situation at the moment. If the Council fails, the desaster is perfect. And what I have heard from different sides, some representatives of nations misused this Council already to block the work. What a shame.

Now we are in the situation, the provisional BoD seems to be unable to do the simplest things like a good communication, results, calender, etc. They are not even able to make announced elections.

To make pressure on the whole thing it would be good if the Council would decide to make an EGM on that weekend of the 1st Major-tournement of this season and setting a time-table with deadlines to solve the problems with statutes and candidates.

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  drastis on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:42 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:of course the problem then would be that some candidates can't apply for jobs again, or do you think the procedure will change, if the statutes are the same?

Heinz

As I had pointed out in the past, there is no restriction in current statuses, which might prevent ANYONE from being a candidate for FISTF BoD. The nonsense about being proposed by a national federation was invented by Catania and friends, to avoid other people from Greece to nominate for FISTF BoD places. It is NOT written in FISTF statuses, so the Council must force the BoD to accept every nomination.

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Admin on Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:22 pm

For me the current statutes are fine.

The interpretation of statutes might always be a problem in the future though.
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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Heinz Eder on Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:32 pm

You are right they were fine, but currently we see what can happen.
Do you want a legal confrontation?
I don't want, so we should take the chance and clearify all those things.

that's all i want to have for the future.

1. Clearify the situation about the application
2. Clearify the status of EGM and the consequences. (new periode or only for the time till the next ordinary congress).

this is a mximum of half a site to add in our statutes.

Drastis:
You are right it is not written down, but what is the possibility if the board decides another way again? You know like I know what possibility people have then.

Heinz

Admin wrote:For me the current statutes are fine.

The interpretation of statutes might always be a problem in the future though.

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  drastis on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:37 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Drastis:
You are right it is not written down, but what is the possibility if the board decides another way again? You know like I know what possibility people have then.

Heinz

Have you watched "The usual suspects" film? It says there that in any confrontation, the one who wins is the one who is ready to do anything. If some people want to use the threat of splitting FISTF, in order to achieve their goals, let them know we are ready to split FISTF if they don't take a step back.

In other words, the provisionary BoD does not decide who is allowed to be a candidate. The nations decide, and if the nations decide that anyone can nominate, this is the rule!

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Janus_Gersie on Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:04 am

Heinz Eder wrote:Do you want a legal confrontation?

Heinz, sorry, but that is crab ! The last elections have beeen illegal and what happened ? NOTHING!
No legal dispute, no authorisation by french law, no new elections !

In Rain I wasn't afraid of Italy leaving FISTF. The italalian players would have punched Mr. de Francesco directly in his face if he (and not the italian president!) would like to decide to leave FISTF.

There was no alternative in Rain. Nobody stood up and said: "I am going to do the job!" This is the truth why we didn't elect in Rain. And as the situation is like it is we won't find somebody doing this bloody job.

Right now we should more focus on the communciation guy. Two month without news. Unbelievable. A statement about CoN that only represents his own opinion. Unbelievable. Announcing a fifth major without having a recognition of that tournament. Unbelievable. Now everybody knows how he is managing his association in Greece. Let the courts decide ....

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Heinz Eder on Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:40 am

that's the normal way of thinking.
only because there happened nothing after january, it will never happen something.
I don't care about the people in the board honestly. If they would do the basic things in a proper way, I wouldn't have a problem with that board. If you agree on their ideas or not is another topic, but when they start the season with a World Cup, where a new invented rule is valid, while the new dates of birth are not valid (both rules started with the same date), then you hear that board members wanted to cancel the WC if there wouldn't be 6 players allowed on the sheet (unfortunately exactly the team of that member had 6 players in Rain in the team), then this is another quality than calling for an EGM.
The EGM was ok, 8 or 9 national associations signed the call for it.
I'm sorry, previous boards did also mistakes, but that doesn't look anymore like a mistake which happened. It looks like that some people don't know what to do or they do it on purpose out of their own interest. That's my biggest problem I have at the moment. Personally I have the feeling that some people are acting like in a self-service storage. If they like something, they take it, because they are a board member.
Previous boards argumented why they did something, even if there were always people thinking differently, but previous boards had arguments and they respected their own rules. For those things the board can't have a single argument. It is against any rule what they are doing in some topics at the moment.
I would prefer it if the council points that out in a letter. I wouldn't start a discussion. I honestly hope that the council agrees on that very fast. All those in the council who don't agree don't respect the rules of FISTF.
Board members break all rules about the calender, so I'm curious to see how you will explain all the other people now that they have to respect those rules.
If I'm funny I will announce a second major in austria, who wants to tell me that I'm not allowed? The sports director can tell to me, he is even right, but if I'm lucky the board will overrule the sports director. As it seems it is the new style of FISTF. We have rules, but if the board votes to break the rules it is ok.

To the board:
Even if you all voted about the Major in Greece and the change of date for the greek GP or to take the IO in Greece in the world ranking (sorry, but unfortunately all tournaments are in Greece Question ), I want to tell you something. There is no need to vote about something which is clearly forbidden according on the rules of FISTF. The Grand Prix is confirmed for june 2011, the Major wasn't mentioned in the calender in april and was published on thursday first time, the IO wasn't confirmed too, because of a wrong date in the request sent to FISTF. Till september there wasn't sent a new request and an IO has to be announced 2 months before the tournament should take place, otherwise the tournament has not to be confirmed by FISTF.
A Grand Prix has to be announced 4 months before the tournament should take place, otherwise the tournament has not to be confirmed by FISTF.
The rule exists and the sports director knows the rules, and if he doesn't agree on that, you can't overrule that with a simple voting of the whole board. If that voting really took place and that proposal found a majority then I want to congratulate all those who agreed on that. You are rule breakers.
Everything is written down clearly in the handbook. What is your next step. Is it allowed to play with my own rules at tournaments?
If the handbook isn't valid anymore, please tell that officially to the associations.

Disposal is one of the worst things.

Janus_Gersie wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Do you want a legal confrontation?

Heinz, sorry, but that is crab ! The last elections have beeen illegal and what happened ? NOTHING!
No legal dispute, no authorisation by french law, no new elections !

In Rain I wasn't afraid of Italy leaving FISTF. The italalian players would have punched Mr. de Francesco directly in his face if he (and not the italian president!) would like to decide to leave FISTF.

There was no alternative in Rain. Nobody stood up and said: "I am going to do the job!" This is the truth why we didn't elect in Rain. And as the situation is like it is we won't find somebody doing this bloody job.

Right now we should more focus on the communciation guy. Two month without news. Unbelievable. A statement about CoN that only represents his own opinion. Unbelievable. Announcing a fifth major without having a recognition of that tournament. Unbelievable. Now everybody knows how he is managing his association in Greece. Let the courts decide ....

Janus

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  ken on Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:23 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:
There was no alternative in Rain. Nobody stood up and said: "I am going to do the job!" This is the truth why we didn't elect in Rain. And as the situation is like it is we won't find somebody doing this bloody job.

Isn't that because the only real contender (Vincent) was conveniently suspended before the elections?????

Is he still suspended?
If so, does the Council of Nations agree with his suspension?
Who can speak for the CoN?
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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  von K. on Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:16 am

Good points by Heinz.

But the problem is that the Council doesn't count either, because the Board doesn't respect it's own promises and words. I do know a word for persons like that. What was it...

The EGM seems a must as soon as possible. And I can only say, that this rule breaking Board (the members of the Board who accept this, I know Pere doesn't) should be suspended for a long time from any activity. Oh, but they didn't use the word *****...

There is also the possibility of a new federation (for those who don't follow the rules of this one).

Heinz Eder wrote:then you hear that board members wanted to cancel the WC if there wouldn't be 6 players allowed on the sheet (unfortunately exactly the team of that member had 6 players in Rain in the team), then this is another quality than calling for an EGM.

It was also priceless to see the FISTF President shout on behalf of his own team on the side of the table in the team final chaos at the end. He almost came to blows with a belgian team leader there. It didn't leap to mind, that maybe getting the situation in order, as the games highest representative of ALL countries, would have been a good choice. As an unexperienced person from a small country, I didn't even know that the President of a global federation should act like that (I bet at least one italian person did know this because of experience).

Absolute diamond stuff from the special balcony near the final tables. It's a pity I didn't shoot a video for promotion of the game and the television had left...

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Re: FISTF CoN

Post  Admin on Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:30 pm

von K. wrote:As an unexperienced person from a small country, I didn't even know that the President of a global federation should act like that (I bet at least one italian person did know this because of experience).
You have much more international experience than the president himself :-) Razz
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