Rules

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Re: Rules

Post  hönkki on Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:00 am

The ball comes to my goalkeeper area and stops there. I touch the ball with my goalkeeper. The opponent makes his block. Then I don't take my sparegoalkeeper or try to hit the ball with the goalkeeper. Instead I do my attackingflick with some of my normal playingfigures and TRY to touch the ball, but I miss the ball. Immediately after that I touch the ball again with my goalkeeper, so it is my possession again.

The question is: what about if in this same situation I DON'T even try to touch the ball with my attackingflick ? I use the attackingflick in some tactical purposes, let's say I take my figure out from offside and immediately after that touch the ball with my goalkeeper. Should I get a yellow card ?

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Re: Rules

Post  Admin on Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:38 am

This could boe considered as unfair behavior (according to the interpretation of the referee): yellow card & free kick.
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Re: Rules

Post  kechris on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:26 pm

Vincent has right 100%.
If the referee is not sure for unfair behaviour he can say free kick for double flick (two figures move towards the ball).
The rule is not clear in this occasion but the clear minds must ban the player for his flicks.
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Re: Rules

Post  Martin Hodds on Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:29 pm

Kari, is this why you are called "Mr 0-0" in Finland ??? Laughing

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Re: Rules

Post  hönkki on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:10 am

Kari, is this why you are called "Mr 0-0" in Finland ???

hmm ... I'm not sure. By the way, have you noticed that you can play time in your own goalkeeper area with your sparegoalkeeper and normal goalkeeper ? Just touch the the ball with the normal goalkeeper and then flick the ball with sparegoalkeeper, so that the ball stays in the goalkeeper area, and then change back to normal goalkeeper and touch the ball and so on ... The flicks will never end and everytime when you take the normal goalkeeper, opponent's figures will be removed from the goalkeeper area. Very Happy

No, I don't really play like that.



Vincent has right 100%.

Yes, this is ok. No problems.

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Re: Rules

Post  hönkki on Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:17 pm

Seriously speaking, is it like this: The goalkeeper make a save and after that the sparegoalkeeper has only 2 flicks left, because the save was one flick ?

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Re: Rules

Post  kechris on Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:19 pm

Good question.
But i have the answer.
The rules allow three flicks with figures.
When the keeper stop the ball it is not flick! Other meaning of flick other meaning keep the handle of keeper.
The solution is simple...

p.s the rules allow block for every touch of ball no every flick. Be carefull.
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Re: Rules

Post  von K. on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:44 pm

"8.1.5. The goalkeeper may not touch the ball more than three times in
succession"

The goalkeeper means both the rod-keeper and the spare-keeper. Both are the same goalkeeper. So 3 touches in total.

Ok, if we split hairs, maybe you could flick the spare keeper after 3 touches, but it can't touch the ball, so I'm not sure if it's wise...

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Re: Rules

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:38 pm

as it seems that answer is wrong. Shocked

kechris wrote:Good question.
But i have the answer.
The rules allow three flicks with figures.
When the keeper stop the ball it is not flick! Other meaning of flick other meaning keep the handle of keeper.
The solution is simple...

p.s the rules allow block for every touch of ball no every flick. Be carefull.

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Re: Rules

Post  kechris on Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:56 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:as it seems that answer is wrong. Shocked

this was the answer of ex sport director!!! Oh my God...

can you answer me if Vesa's comment for this rule The goalkeeper means both the rod-keeper and the spare-keeper are in rules?

"8.1.5. The goalkeeper may not touch the ball more than three times in succession"

So if i use 3 efforts with my keeper to stop a difficult shoot after i cann't use my spare goalkeeper !!!!
Or if i use 4 efforts to stop a shoot you as referee you will decide free kick for my opponent...
Are you sure that you were sport director? Question

I WROTE BEFORE A COUPLE DAYS. WHEN THE RULES ARE NOT CLEAR THEN WE NEED CLEAR MINDS.
NO MORE COMMENTS.
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It is more clear than ever why Vincent lost? He did bad selections in partners.
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Re: Rules

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:29 pm

i hope you are soon ready to be a better choice Laughing

kechris wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:as it seems that answer is wrong. Shocked

this was the answer of ex sport director!!! Oh my God...

can you answer me if Vesa's comment for this rule The goalkeeper means both the rod-keeper and the spare-keeper are in rules?

"8.1.5. The goalkeeper may not touch the ball more than three times in succession"

So if i use 3 efforts with my keeper to stop a difficult shoot after i cann't use my spare goalkeeper !!!!
Or if i use 4 efforts to stop a shoot you as referee you will decide free kick for my opponent...
Are you sure that you were sport director? Question

I WROTE BEFORE A COUPLE DAYS. WHEN THE RULES ARE NOT CLEAR THEN WE NEED CLEAR MINDS.
NO MORE COMMENTS.
sport director Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
It is more clear than ever why Vincent lost? He did bad selections in partners.

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Re: Rules

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:43 pm

as usual you mix up things.
it is written in the rules that the spare-keeper REPLACES the goal-keeper on the rod, so it should be clear that Vesa is right.
If you save a shot you are not active, you are passive playing, it is the same if you save a shot and the ball comes back to a figure of the player who shot on the goal! Do you have a block? NO, because you are passive in saving a shot, so why should it be considered as 3 flicks if you need 3 attempts to save a shot?
Generally I'm not sure if it is even possible to play with the spare-keeper then change back the keeper and touch the ball with the keeper and then change the spare-keeper again, as far as I can remember (i will have a look on it tomorrow) you MUST play with another FIGURE after you change the spare-keeper.

kechris wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:as it seems that answer is wrong. Shocked

this was the answer of ex sport director!!! Oh my God...

can you answer me if Vesa's comment for this rule The goalkeeper means both the rod-keeper and the spare-keeper are in rules?

"8.1.5. The goalkeeper may not touch the ball more than three times in succession"

So if i use 3 efforts with my keeper to stop a difficult shoot after i cann't use my spare goalkeeper !!!!
Or if i use 4 efforts to stop a shoot you as referee you will decide free kick for my opponent...
Are you sure that you were sport director? Question

I WROTE BEFORE A COUPLE DAYS. WHEN THE RULES ARE NOT CLEAR THEN WE NEED CLEAR MINDS.
NO MORE COMMENTS.
sport director Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
It is more clear than ever why Vincent lost? He did bad selections in partners.

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Re: Rules

Post  kechris on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:48 pm

Thanks for your wishes Heinz.
I didn't prefer until now a position in BoD than playing table soccer.
I believe that it is not right to have two roles together. BoD member and player.
I am dissapointed now for table soccer. I cann't play and i cann't enjoy for all problems with BoD in Greece and in FISTF.
I wait the final decision of coutrs. After i will take my decisions for the future.
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Re: Rules

Post  kechris on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:55 pm

I PLAY 30 YEARS.
NONE REFEREE COUNT THE KEEPER STOP AS FLICK. N E V E R .
But i saw many times a triple attempt of a keeper to stop the ball.

You wrote that you are not sure for the rule. If you were referee or head referee in final and the one player did this what you will decide?

FREE-KICK. Because it is very easy for a CLEAR MIND to select the right than the wrong decision.
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Re: Rules

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:07 pm

I play more than 20 years Kostas and I never saw a player playing between keeper and spare-keeper.
If I would see somebody I would decide for free-flick from the penalty point, because in my opinion the player has to play with ANOTHER figure after using the keeper active. If you make the goal-flick with your keeper, you can't use the spare-keeper too without playing with another figure, it is exactly the same, so I'm pretty it is not possible to touch the ball with keeper active, then change the keeper and play with the spare-keeper and then again change the keeper and play again with the keeper active.
A save is not active playing, it is written down in the rules, so if somebody needs 3 attempts to save a shot and then he takes the spare-keeper, he can play 3 flicks with the spare keeper.
that's logical for me.

kechris wrote:I PLAY 30 YEARS.
NONE REFEREE COUNT THE KEEPER STOP AS FLICK. N E V E R .
But i saw many times a triple attempt of a keeper to stop the ball.

You wrote that you are not sure for the rule. If you were referee or head referee in final and the one player did this what you will decide?

FREE-KICK. Because it is very easy for a CLEAR MIND to select the right than the wrong decision.

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Re: Rules

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:09 pm

then you shouldn't tell people only to do the job in the board because they only want to have "power", because that's total nonsense in my case.
maybe you will understand me one day.

kechris wrote:Thanks for your wishes Heinz.
I didn't prefer until now a position in BoD than playing table soccer.
I believe that it is not right to have two roles together. BoD member and player.
I am dissapointed now for table soccer. I cann't play and i cann't enjoy for all problems with BoD in Greece and in FISTF.
I wait the final decision of coutrs. After i will take my decisions for the future.

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Re: Rules

Post  Thossa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:29 pm

kechris wrote:
I wait the final decision of coutrs. After i will take my decisions for the future.

When do you expect this, Kostas?
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Re: Rules

Post  von K. on Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:45 pm

The keeper rule regarding touches/flicks needs a small improvement. I don't think it's good, that you have to interpret two different rules (without a clear indication "see rule...").

I'm quite sure that the rules will be a lot better in points like this, if Olivier is given the possibility, support and appreciation for his work.

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Re: Rules

Post  kechris on Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:27 am

Vesa we don't need clear rules for every every possibility. It is enough only the clear mind.
The lawyers look for clear rules when their customers are not very clears...
In a game it is enough a clear mind for a clear match.
Yes i agree with you that the rules have holes and must close these holes by the sport department. But I agree with you because you were not sport director. If you were SPORT DIRECTOR IN PAST i will not agree with you because your job was to close the holes.

Thossa the court will announce the FINALLY decision in January. 2 months only. I am waiting 29 months, i can wait 2 more.
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Re: Rules

Post  von K. on Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:49 pm

kechris wrote:Vesa we don't need clear rules for every every possibility.

It's true that rules without interpretation is a utopia in most ball games.

But the TF rules have too many points that could be clarified. It's also understandable that they are there, because no one has ever got money for writing or checking them. So it's all voluntery work. I also think the Sports Director has so much to do, that he can't see all the problems and do everything by himself. He needs a Commission to help see the problems and find solutions. 20 eyes see more than 2, and 10 brains find better solutions than 1, if they work together.

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Re: Rules

Post  Thossa on Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:08 pm

It´s true, we still have different forms of handling the rules. That is more important because every player is a referee, too.

I wish to see a special chapter somewhere (here, on www.fistf.info or elsewhere) with lessions.

Lessions, how to react in special moments to eliminate the most often practices errors in matches worldwide.
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