Goalkeeper change

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:12 pm

This is the correct approach.
I agree with drastis. All equipment should be checked.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:57 pm

I know we discussed already many times about it, but I think it isn't good to leave the control in player's hand, because it doesn't work.
In the actual situation it is very easy to see an illegal keeper, because homologation means that I get a product in its original form and then FISTF says, THIS product is homologated.
If a player only paint his keeper or change the rod of the keeper, that keeper isn't legal any more, most of players (even producers) don't understand it, but it is like that. Homologation means that it isn't allowed to modify anything on that original product.
So normally, we all know that metal keepers are silver, so if you see a keeper with another colour made of metal, this keeper automatically isn't legal, undpendent if the measures are ok or not. Players don't care about that, because most use an illegal keeper too, so it is very easy to say nothing as player or referee, then players can be sure that nobody will complain about his own keeper.
I also think that goals and balls are becoming a problem, seeing that some sold goals are too big and dangerous to hurt yourself. I also think it isn't good promotion to play with balls with the current quality, because it looks very silly in my view, when the ball is running straight and the last 20 cm it runs in right or left direction, so in my opinion we need high quality balls (i even would pay 1 or 2 EUR more, if the product is really a good one).
Like with other things, I would propose to make first steps in that direction at events where TV should show up for an example or sponsors should be presented. Material should be strictly controlled at the WC, the Majors and the EC. There most of the players show up if there it would be strictly and punishment would be hard, I think the rest would be solved on its own.
Generally I don't like the situation that I have to modify most products I buy that i can use it. The balls have to be modified because in their original form they are glued badly, I have to modify the figures to make them useable for most bases because of the stud which doesn't match in the bases. You have to modify the actual types of metal keepers that the figures are really fixed and so on. For all those things you pay loads of money that you have to spend time to use that material in the end, that's not ok for me.

Heinz

drastis wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:If other sports would do the same, they would still play with the Adidas Questra ball for an example. Why is it a bad thing to improve bases and test several things? If there is more choice for the players, more players can find the perfect bases and figures for their game.
Why should we limit the range of products only to 3 or 4 different bases, for me the only important fact is the diameter of the base and the maximum high of the base. The rest should be free for everybody (of course bases need to be homlogated by FISTF).
I don't think that players stop playing because of many different bases. I think if they have a bigger sortiment of bases to choose the right one, players can improve their game better, than having only 3 or 4 kinds and noone of them is really perfect. It should also be possible that players design their own figures if they have the possibilities to do that, then they can send for homlogation and that's it.

Heinz


I totally agree with you Heinz. But, isn't it right that the same logic should apply for all equipment?The only important fact is the maximum height and width of the goalkeeper and surely the diameter of the handle. The rest should be free, provided there is homologation, exactly as you say.

FISTF should provide a tool for measuring various kinds of equipent: goalkeepers, bases, figures etc. Goals and balls may not be actually a problem, (because they are used by both the players in a match, so there is no motivation for a potential cheat), but you could have tools for them as well.

Search the market FISTF people, there are companies who specialize in producing such measuring tools. GaleForce9 is one of them, they produce laser-cut tools for wargamers (Warhammer, Flames of War etc).

By using such tools, players will be able to check the equipment they are offered and referees will be able to attest "modifications" aiming to enlarge or reduce the size of legal material, a very common practice among the players. And you will not have to resort to the solution of "single" goalkeeper, bases, balls etc.

IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND???

Heinz Eder
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 781
Join date : 2010-04-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  georgy on Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:33 pm

1) I think that the ONLY real problem is the goalkeepers/sizes

2) I read the rules again and I do not think that there is a weight limit of the players! Actually i do not understand what will you gain if you add mercury! The control will be very problematic, we all try to play with as light as possible! I can understand that there should be a maximum height limit because you gain an advantage when block a shot. Not even a minimum height, because if you choose to play with very short players then your defense has a disadvantage (the opponent can chip the ball over you player).

3) I agree with Heinz. As I said in a previous post,, many players (including me) enjoy not only playing
but trying different combinations of bases, figures, weights, disks, polishes, etc to see what fits them best. You can not take this away from us because of a few cheaters! You should not punish the majority!

4) I also agree that producers should try to improve the quality of the ball. Actually I only use old Tangos
avatar
georgy
International Open Winner
International Open Winner

Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-04-23
Age : 45

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:42 pm

I feel that this game is like golf. Everyone does not use the same set of golf clubs. We all like clubs that suit us & are slightly different from what you would use.

Subbuteo is the same. I am sure that most of you would not like the weight of my figures & so many people seem to hate the SportsFigure keeper. But I don't care as they work for me (& within the rules but that should go without saying).

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:47 pm

LLcoolJ wrote:I agree with drastis. All equipment should be checked.
Being an outsider it surprises me that in major events equipment is not checked by the organizers to make sure that every competitor's equipment is within the rules.

It would take a lot of time to do. But once the cheats realize that they will get caught & banned from the tournament for using illegal equipment the cheating will stop.

It is a shame that they are a few players who are not gentlemen & want to cheat instead of playing like a gentleman.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  maxischn on Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:50 pm

having just one unique keeper will stop progress and improvement in the game

where would subbuteo be without people trying to create new keepers and figures and bases...

and i can't think of a single sport where youare restricted to just one single form of equipment.... if it's only in the shoes that make the difference or the strings in your tennisracket, but still there is a room to vary in material... and it made the game improve and help breaking records
avatar
maxischn
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 117
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Vienna

View user profile http://www.royal78.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Admin on Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:06 pm

True, it's impossible to have a game where all the material (or just all goalkeepers) come from one company. It's against all principles of fairness and I'm sure if a company would like to go on court against FISTF because they break the european rule about the free competition between companies, it would win for sure.

If the new Goalkeepers are sold at 10 EUR and then another company proposes to produce and sell the same goalkeepers for 8 EUR, I don't see how you can prevent them to do so.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1330
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 42
Location : Somewhere in Belgium

View user profile http://templeuveunited.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  von K. on Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:27 am

Simon_H wrote:
LLcoolJ wrote:I agree with drastis. All equipment should be checked.
Being an outsider it surprises me that in major events equipment is not checked by the organizers to make sure that every competitor's equipment is within the rules.

It would take a lot of time to do. But once the cheats realize that they will get caught & banned from the tournament for using illegal equipment the cheating will stop.

This amazes anyone who follows this game. In almost every real sport, where there are limitations in the rules, things are checked at least if the opponent wants them checked.

In football the refs check the players studs always before they enter the field. In wrestling (not the show), judo, boxing etc. the athletes are weighed before the tournament. If you're over the limit you are out, even though it hurts. The list would be endless.

I repeat that the real issue is simple: Does FISTF side with cheats or the fair players?

It's as simple as that. And I'm sure that fair players are a majority. The problem is also that for example players who are bending the rod are telling new players it's ok, so some players don't even know they are using illegal equipment. But here the responsibility is with the cheats that have started bending the rules (and the rods).

von K.
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 854
Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:10 am

Gentlemen,

we're kidding?

Producers have produced doormen outside the rules.

The FISTF not already controlled, or when it has been forgotten in the volume at the time of homologation.

Players make all possible pitfalls (rod bent, elongated hands with pliers, painted figures 1000 times, dip in line to increase the volume, heat around the horn ... .. etc etc. ..)

The organizations do not control the material by: laziness and lack of time.

The referees (who are players) do not control the material out of fear, laziness or just why they are not in order.

It seems that fall from the clouds.

The goalkeeper only (which is not a business why we're talking very little money "profit") is a defeat for the whole movement of table football.

And that is why we had to start over from scratch.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Thossa on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:18 am

Piero,

will every player getting to the new keeper a pattern?
avatar
Thossa
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 627
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 55
Location : Far beyond

View user profile http://www.dstfb.de

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:46 am

I do not understand, you mean that each player use the same model keeper?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Thossa on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:57 am

Every player of FISTF member nations will getting one keeper for free...right?
We learned from 2011 January, 1st on every FISTF-tournaments will be played with that new keeper. Will every player getting a keeper plus a pattern to control the keeper.

Yes or no Question
avatar
Thossa
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 627
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 55
Location : Far beyond

View user profile http://www.dstfb.de

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:06 pm

That the idea itself. We will distribute to each national federation for each juador a goalkeeper in the ranking fistf. Then will the federations to distribute. The idea is to make the tournament from September to December so that everyone has their goalkeeper.

Control the goalkeeper, then, it will be in charge of the organizers. We have prepared for estecontrol dima but with only goalkeeper will be very difficult to cheat.

Piero

(my translator did not recognize the word "patter").

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Thossa on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:11 pm

A pattern is a mask through put the keeper to a hole to control the dimension. bounce You can use it as referee tool as well for th distance for free-kick and corner kick.

We discussed in Frankfurt the importance of such pattern. Remember? Everyone agreed this is needful.

So once again. Will we as referees get something to control the new keeper typ before each match?

BTW: I do not think players stop manipulate the new keeper only because it is new pirat
avatar
Thossa
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 627
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 55
Location : Far beyond

View user profile http://www.dstfb.de

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:25 pm

Had understood and thanks. We have already produced the patter. Very professional indeed. We'll put at the disposal of the organizers. But again, the goalkeeper to be the same for all, in two or tre colors and can not be painted. Will be very difficult to manipulate.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  kechris on Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:34 pm

Five pages in this forum, many pages in other forums, many hours in conversations for the keepers and a decision which allow only one type of keeper unpainted and maybe very sensitive.
I am dissapointed.
avatar
kechris
Major winner
Major winner

Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-04-22
Location : Greece

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Goalkeeper change

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum