OLYMPIA CS complaint

PLEASE DO US THE FAVOUR AND READ THE FOLLOWING!!! Thank you in advance!!

Unfortunately, one more dark page was written yesterday in the book of the miserable Greek Subbuteo. The “writers”? The same ones. The “victims” ?. The same ones.

This weekend an international tournament was hosted in Greece. The players of our club (Olympia CS) were not allowed to participate in the individual category (veterans) on Saturday, as well as in the teams competition (we had 3 teams, Olympia A, B and C). Because of that we canceled our registrations for the Sunday’s Open category (anyway we would not have the “right” to participate, but at least we did not want for the organizers to find a “reason” to penalize us even more!!! by removing points from the official ranking for not “showing up”!!!).

The reason? We are not “members” of PATFAP (Panhellenic Association of Table Football Amateur Players) or we haven’t paid what we “owe” (some of us, according to the current “management”, owe 230 euros! Since we were the founding members of PATFAP! Ridiculous! Only founding members had the right to vote in the elections. Please see explanation below(*) ).

We said that this is an international tournament not a national one, but they used the excuse that it is in the FISTF rules that in order to participate in international tournaments you have to be a member of a national association. True this is a rule, but FISTF has never enforced this rule (Mr Parnaby and Mr Vulpes replied to a relevant question by saying that), and we are certain that in EVERY international tournament there are players who do not belong in a national association. Why the decided NOW to “discover and use” an old rule? The answer is obvious! To punish us. RIDICULOUS!

They would have “allowed” us to participate if the members of our team would sign a paper to become PATFAP members (need to pay 20 euros once for registration + 20 euros per year) or make arrangement to pay what we “owe” (founding members according to them owe 230 euros)!

We DO NOT TRY TO AVOID PAYING what we might rightfully owe. But for us it is a matter of ethics and self respect that we CAN NOT ACCEPT PATFAP as a legal association under this management. And by becoming members it would be as if we consent.

(*)The current “management” did not allow “selected players”, including a number of our players, to take part in the elections of PATFAP (they send us an SMS 1 day before the elections!) 2 years ago. Funnily enough all these who were banned would not vote for them!!!!! Funnily enough, if they would have voted, the result would have been different!!!!! Since then there was a legal action against them and WE HAVE WON the case in the GREEK COURT but they appealed (obviously in order to gain time and continue having the power) and we are waiting for the case to be processed. Even though we have won they still have the “management”!

Can we become members of the German or the Finnish for example association so that we can at least participate in international tournaments in Greece? At least until the greek court process their appeal? The whole situation is, as you can understand, ridiculous! But it seems that we have to "fight" them, using their tactics.

Are we masochists? We are certain that even if we find a solution to play in the next international tournament hosted in Greece by them, they will probably have another excuse to disallow us from playing, or “treat” us nicely on the tables! We are used to this by now. But still what we really want is to play. And no one has the right to take this from us, finding each time different excuses because we did not "surrender".

It is really SAD to accept that many times during these 2 years we have thought that it might have been better just to do nothing and accept this situation. Just quit (as a few did because they did not have the time and guts to deal with such persons, we can not blame them for sure) or accept them (as other greek teams did, even though they knew what they did was wrong, but they did not bother).

Mr Gersie, Mr Catania, Mr Copenolle, Mr Busing, Mr Hakarainen! Someone! Please tell us what can we do???? Is what we ask feasible?

Please do not allow any more some persons without any ethical limits to bully us!

And even if this is OUR part of the story (as the others will say), still, we believe that we have the right to play!

Greece is a problem because of the elections. You can become a member of any other country but not as an club. Because only two foreigners per team. The FISTF the problem in Greece is required to solve. I have only written what is in handbook

We had the problem years ago in Germany, and were even locked for the World Cup

In normal circumstances, the players from Olympia would have to join the FISTF recognised association in Greece, PATFAP. They could not join another countries association unless they lived in that country.
If however, there is/was dispute over the legality of PATFAP (this may be true, i really don't know the internal politics in Greece), it may be possible for FISTF to grant a licence to play for the Olympia players. What costs would be involved I do not know, but it could be a possible solution until the situation in Greece is settled.

Normally the tournament on this weekend can not be valid as FISTF tournament, only as an friendly tournament under greek players. But this has to be checked anyway. Hopefully we will see as soon as possible a new and independant FISTF Sports Director to clear the air.

Superficial there is a fact to think of for the Olympia club.

Even when the opponents of Leonidas Koutromanos won on a greek court and obvisiously the current PATFAP-President is not legal, the day will come and a new election will come.

What do you think? If Mr. Koutromanos candidates again will the majority votes for him? If so, nothing will change.

And then what?

Comments, again, with the knowledge that is read here and heard from some players. So, not based on rock solid facts.

If this is the reality, I would like to ask mr. Catania, how this works in favour of our games development? We should work together was the message before the WC weekend. Is this working together, and in the best interests of the game?

Also the same question to the other provisional BoD members, for example Stefano, who speaks (correctly, of course) about playstation as the enemy for the game. I would like to hear a clear comment from the people that have been in the provisional board for 8 months, but not ones commented on the situation in Greece.

I don't care if someone has quit the board, if in 8 months there is nothing, then it would be nice to know why, and especially on what facts is the silence decision based on? If you are ok with the situation, then tell everyone what is that decision based on?

It's a clear thing that this is harming the game enourmously. So the FISTF has to react to this in some way.

If a special system would allow it, I'm quite sure that the finnish federation would welcome refugees. Not as finnish players, but so that thay can play in FISTF tournaments.

Thossa wrote:
Even when the opponents of Leonidas Koutromanos won on a greek court and obvisiously the current PATFAP-President is not legal, the day will come and a new election will come.

What do you think? If Mr. Koutromanos candidates again will the majority votes for him? If so, nothing will change.

And then what?

I think that if a person is found guilty by law, then he should be prevented from taking part in the association, especially as a director, by the court. But I don't know about the greek judicial system.

If this wouldn't happen, it would be the FISTF duty to prevent such a person (found guilty by law) to take a position in a national association board. As a player, no problem.

In any case, I feel that at the moment, the equal solution by the FISTF would be to make the whole PAFTAP unofficial as member of FISTF. When the problem is solved in the courts (or otherwise), PAFTAP would return to be a member nation. The players would of course have a special permission to play in the FISTF tournaments, and FISTF would decide on Greece's FISTF tournaments based on all clubs applications.

For the whole thing to be resolved by FISTF (council?), it would have to rely heavily on the "investigation" made by Janus Gersie last year. I understand that it might be the only impartial view of things as a whole.