FISTF Council of Nations

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  Thossa on Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:29 am

I think we all agree on the point, the next WC should be played in Italy. Finally it is up to the italian federation to sort out where it is better placed: Rome (Fiomicino) or Palermo. I hope this will be clearified soon. I know there are different point of views within FISCT.

I also think everybody agrees on the fact, as long as the greek situation is not solved, no important tournament has to be played in Greece. If the FISTF CoN will work in the right way, I am sure, nobody really like to see a WC 2012 in Athens as long as PATFAP is not running in legal ways.

To point it out correctly: I am not against a World Cup in Greece, but not under the current situation.

What FISTF needs now is a chance in the Communication Department and a new Sports Director. Immediately.

I really don´t know why the current FISTF BoD ignore this Question

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  Admin on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:35 am

For 2012, England was candidate to organize the WC but FISTF told Jeremy Bradley the event HAD TO BE in July... Shocked
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:46 am

Just a clarification for Thossa.

The World Cup for next season will be held in Palermo. There is no doubt about it. The Italian board agrees to 100%.

We will host for free all players under 12 and under 15. We are also trying to give aid to countries outside Europe.

We have reached an agreement with two televisions and send the live event on the internet on a channel FISCT.

We want to make the next World Cup, an extraordinary event.

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:25 am

for the Greek situation I have requested information.

the problem of quotas paid by the founders of the Greek federation should be the important point.
PATFAP started with Koutromanos, Papakostantinou, Kechris and another 24 people (total 27) in summer of 2007. The founders decide to make the first annual fee bigger (150 euros each) in order to pay expences (hotel rooms, sports halls, equipment, cups etc ) which was 12000 euros. These money has to given (at least the 50% of them) in advance.
Only the members of Lions and Atlas paid. All the others nothing. At 2008 PATFAP was legal and start with 20 euros of annual fee. The same for the 2009, the same also for 2010 and for this season.
Koutromanos ask a meeting to Kechris and Olimpia for find a solution for the money that they must give to Greek Association. Koutromanos said to Olimpia that only paying the old fees, the club become a member of PATFAP. If Olimpia have not paid they cannot play anywhere.

I asked about the situation Olympia also to my other two Greek friends. They also have confirmed to me this version.


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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  kechris on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:19 am

ALL YOUR INFORMATIONS ARE WRONG.

YOU ARE NOT LIAR BUT YOUR FRIENDS ARE GREAT LIARS.

WHY YOU DIDN'T ASK THE 27 FOUNDER MEMBERS?

WHY THE COURTS HAVE DIFFERENT OPINION BY YOUR GREEK FRIENDS?

I THINK THAT YOUR FRIENDS WERE NOT FOUNDER MEMBERS OF PATFAP AND THEY WERE AGAINST TO START PATFAP.

WHEN I WANT TO LEARN THE TRUTH I ASK BOTH SIDES. YOU ASK ONLY ONE SIDE SO YOU DON'T WANT TO LEARN THE TRUTH.

P.S DO YOU WANT THE RECEIPTS TO SEE WHO PAY THE FIRST YEAR THE SPORTS HALL THE CUPS THE TRUCK WHICH CARRIED THE TABLES? I AND PAPAMICHAIL KEEP THE RECEIPTS BECAUSE WE PAY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THE THREE OF FIVE MEMBERS OF THE STARTER BoD GO TO COURTS AGAINST THE TWO OTHERS? WHY ONLY 8 PERSONS VOTED BY 27 FOUNDERS?

I WILL STOP TALKING TO YOU. YOU ARE A .....
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:33 am

I didn't say my opinion.

I only brought a version that I asked.

If what they told me is not true please tell where these people have lied

I understand that Koutromanos and you have different opinions but I have also asked the players to another club.

P.S. - Moreover, in all your post you insult someone.

With this behaviour believe what you say is more difficult.

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  georgy on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:01 am

Dear Stefano,

I just tell you ONE thing (which was also written in the complaint) and that is enough.

The founding member who were not going to vote for Koutroumanos received ONE DAY
before the elections an SMS by Papakonstantinou saying that we haven't paid so we are
disqualified from the elections!!!! (by the way most of us had no clue about what we had to pay!)

Do you call this democracy? If yes, then I am really sorry for you.

Even if all the excuses that they found are correct,
THEIR WAY of dealing with it, showed that they just wanted to eliminate the opposition!
Even if members haven't paid, they still have the right to vote!

That's it! Simple as that. The rest is just excuses!
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:02 pm

Dear Georgy,
I will not say who is right and who is wrong. In these situations it is always difficult.

But I would tell you that in one thing I disagree with you.

I am Chairman of a football team. By July 10 of each year I must pay the admission fee. They are among the first team and youth teams around twenty thousand euros.

If I pay this money I can play and vote in the federal assemblies. If I don't pay I have no rights.

Payment of dues is required to join any association.

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  alex popoff on Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:13 pm

[Heinz]
Is there anything mentioned in french law, that the board can cancel a meeting where elections should take place?
They cannot cancel it !
In extreme cases ( and not the one that they give us : " We are not ready and we need more time ..." ) they can report it at an other date but only if all the parties are OK ! and they must announce immediatelly the new date and the place !


What did the new board send to the french authority after the meeting in january?
I send an e-mail one week ago to Laurent Garnier to ask him but for the moment no aswer ...

If they didn't send the correct papers, members of FISTF normally have to tell that to the french authority.
Exactly ! because they were elected as "provisionnal" until the meeting of Rain and now the FISTF doesn't got a Board since that date !

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  von K. on Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:08 pm

Very good points in here by Heinz.

Heinz Eder wrote:Every association of course is free to vote whoever they like.
I only would be interested in your motives to vote for Silvio.

Did you see any program for the time after Rain?
Did you see anything official about preferred teams?

I don't think there were good conditions to decide for anybody Exclamation

I was not there, but when I hear and read that the president wanted to cancel the WC, if it wouldn't be allowed to list 6 players on the team sheet (some people think that the reason was only, because Malta had 6 players in the Open Team), I don't have a good feeling. On the other side the categories should be taken from the old season for the World Cup. Where is the continous line in the decisions? Is the World Cup considered as old season's or new season's event. It is not good to mix.

When I see that the board decided only to accept candidates if they have an agreement of the president of the national association, and then we see that candidates from greece are not accepted, because the greek president wants to be candidate, I don't have a good feeling.

When I see that spain and argentina were represented by Italy and Malta at a meeting without any agenda (in the end they couldn't even guess, what would be spoken about at the meeting, but they trust Italy and Malta blind), I don't have a good feeling. It is like a blanco cheque.

When I see that players in Greece are not allowed to play FISTF tournaments, which are not even officially confirmed by FISTF, I don't have a good feeling.

Please give me valid reasons out of the view of Italy and Spain to vote for any candidate in Rain!

I want to clearify that I post my personal opinion here, which is not the view of the austrian federation. I also don't have a personal problem with board members, i only want to give a critical view on the work. The same can be done with the work before january too of course.

Heinz

de francesco wrote:Coppenolle: At the end, we all know Italy is playing a bad game because if there were elections in Rain, Catania would lose for sure.

these nations were present at the Meeting of Rain:

1) Malta
2) Greece
3) Italy
4) Gibraltar
5) Spain (delegation to Italy)
6) Argentina (delegation to Malta)
7) Belgium
7) Finland
9) Germany
10) England
11) Wales

England and Wales I don't know which candidate they would vote but Malta, Greece, Italy, Gibraltar, Spain and Argentina would vote Catania.

I have no interest to say this but this talk is just to say that elections are not a solution. The solution is to sit at a table as we did me and Thossa and try to solve problems.

P.S. I'm agree with Janus for the same reason!

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  drastis on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:19 pm

de francesco wrote:I didn't say my opinion.

I only brought a version that I asked.

If what they told me is not true please tell where these people have lied

I understand that Koutromanos and you have different opinions but I have also asked the players to another club.

P.S. - Moreover, in all your post you insult someone.

With this behaviour believe what you say is more difficult.

It is a frustration to see that the once respectable de Francesco has become the supporter of a BoD which has been found illegally elected by the greek courts. It is disgusting to realise that he does so in order to support his friends in Greece (the ones who were never members of PATFAP).

I will tell you where these people have lied. Will you tell us their names? Of course not, because they always work underground. So, these people are liars because:

1. There was never a decision for PATFAP members to pay an amount as high as 150€. The "decision" was invented one day before the elections and was based on papers that the greek court found invalid.
2. No one ever asked anyone to pay any money before the elections. PATFAP statuses state clearly that no member can be purged, unless they have not paid for 3 years. So, until now, even with the illegally elected BoD (according to greek courts in first degree), even if they have not paid, all Olympia players are still members of PATFAP.
3. No one has paid any membership fee to PATFAP since 2008 anyway. PATFAP financial manager wrote in this very forum that he never took any money from anyone!! (t's plain that your English is not so good, but I thought you could at least read properly)
4. All Olympia players play domestic and international tournaments for the last 2 years. If they had not paid and if they were not members, how this could happen?
5. Your friends (you know who) were against PATFAP until 2008, when after the "elections" they decided to change sides just because they thought they could take advantage of the situation.
6. 17 of the 27 founding members of PATFAP sued against the election and they won the first court. How can these people be liars.
7. The current BoD of PATFAP practically do everythng they can to make at least 30 of the about 75 active players to quit playing. They have already managed to make another 20 players quit playing. Is this your way of developing the sport?

You could have asked Janus Gersie who knows the case very well, but how can the president of an association with so few members know better than you? You could have asked the 17 players who sued PATFAP, but half of them are Olympia players and friends of Kechris, so they can't be right. You could have asked the financial manager of PATFAP, but no, you prefered to ask your friends.

I could continue writing but I think every one understands who is wrong in this and who is right. You are with the wrong side and soon when the decision of the 2nd degree court is taken you will have to apologise to greek players (except your good friends of course, who really love this mess as long as they are on top of this).


Last edited by drastis on Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  von K. on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:58 pm

de francesco wrote:Coppenolle: At the end, we all know Italy is playing a bad game because if there were elections in Rain, Catania would lose for sure.

these nations were present at the Meeting of Rain:

1) Malta
2) Greece
3) Italy
4) Gibraltar
5) Spain (delegation to Italy)
6) Argentina (delegation to Malta)
7) Belgium
7) Finland
9) Germany
10) England
11) Wales

England and Wales I don't know which candidate they would vote but Malta, Greece, Italy, Gibraltar, Spain and Argentina would vote Catania.

I have no interest to say this but this talk is just to say that elections are not a solution. The solution is to sit at a table as we did me and Thossa and try to solve problems.

P.S. I'm agree with Janus for the same reason!

Just a couple of little things to add. First, you forgot Monaco. Second, I think it's weird that you say Spain would vote for Catania, when Spain's Capponi wrote here a few days before the Congress, that the provisional BoD should resign (or was it be released).

This was just to correct the participants and to say that the result of an election (we don't even know who the candidates would have been) was far from clear.

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:57 pm

Von K. I had the delegation of Spain and before the meeting of Rain I asked to piero how to vote if the elections were conducted. Spain vote for Catania.

I thank Drastis for the usual insults and leave you to your discussions.

I greet you

Arrivederci



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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  von K. on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:27 pm

de francesco wrote:Von K. I had the delegation of Spain and before the meeting of Rain I asked to piero how to vote if the elections were conducted. Spain vote for Catania.

No problem with that. Sounded only a bit strange to change mind in a few days from wanting a resignation to voting for. And you forgot Monaco.

And nobody knows which candidates or for what positions would have been possible to vote. So it would have been a strange vote that could have ended in many different ways. So you're right about that Catania could've been re-elected.

But this (speculating about an election, that we didn't have) is sidetracks, and not important anyway.

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:37 pm

I agree with you I just answered to this phrase of Coppenolle:

"At the end, we all know Italy is playing a bad game because if there were elections in Rain, Catania would lose for sure."

Dear von k. I see you always very accurate comment on my posts.

The others can insult and say what they want without you saying anything .....



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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  georgy on Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:15 am

Dear Stefano.
I do no insult you, and I will not, even if we have different opinions but it would be nice to have
ARGUMENTS when we say our opinion.

I do not know what your Greek friends told you but since drastis is insulting you so you do not want to answer to him, then I hope that you would like to answer to me to the following questions
WHICH ACTUALLY ARE THE KEY QUESTIONS, and to be honest if you wanted to be impartial and keep the right distance, you SHOULD DO IT.

1. Why you prefer to believe your greek friends rather than the greek court?
2. Why you prefer to believe your greek friends rather than 17 founding members of PATFAP.
Did you ask any of them? I was one of them!
3. Why don't you take into consideration what the financial manager of PATFAP said? (mr Kourtis)

By the way, why don't you tell us who are your 2 greek friends which verified what you wrote?
I do not think that they will have a problem. But if they have, THEN YOU CAN NOT USE THEM in order
to support your claim, because this way I can also tell you that 100 Italian friends of mine say
that what we say is correct!!! DO you get it?

Is it so difficult to understand that if we PAY ANY AMOUNT NOW to this illegal Greek association, it will be as if we recognise them, and can be even used against us?

4. If they win the appeal then you can be happy that you supported the correct ones. BUT IF THEY LOSE? (which is CERTAIN in my opinion)
Who is going to give us back these 2 and now 3 years, of not being able to play to international and national tournaments without being bullied (and in some of them we did not even play)? Unless you still prefer to believe your greek friends!

DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE LEAST THAT FISTF SHOULD DO IS TO ALLOW US TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY TOURNAMENT UNTIL THE MATTER IS RESOLVED in the greek courts?

Please do not forget the following! It is not US who appealed!!! It is the others!!!
WE HAVE WON THE CASE!!!! I repeat it! WE HAVE WON THE CASE!!!
But it is us who are still being punished and treated as if we are the illegal ones!

Do you think that this is justice? If yes, then I am really sorry for you!
If not, then the solution is simple! (it is in bold letters!!!!)
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  kechris on Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:28 am

we use our names Stefano.

now please say the names of your friends who gave this information.

what is your problem? if they said the truth they haven't reason to keep secret their names.

p.s.1 you wrote for 2 friends but only one person in greece talking for you as friend. You are very popular...

p.s.2 you selected a greek person for partner in sport department. It means that you have cofidence to him. Do you ask him for the greek matter? I don't think. Why? Maybe you prefer to ask friends only...

Please give your answers to George. He doesn't insult you.
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:52 am

I just wanted to bring the version of 'other side.

This way everyone can get an opinion and decide whom to believe. I have my opinion.

I have one idea to try to resolve the situation. I am not one of the board and I can not make decisions.

We're just talking on the forum. Unlike others I do and the only result I get is to be buried by insults from Kechris and drastis and constant requests for clarification of Von K. The young Finn wants from me all the explanations, while all others can safely insult me and for him it's okay.

Dear George, if you call me this is my number 00393939112673. If you want to call me I will explain my idea. It is clear that answer to you and not to others.

I will give you my help for find a solution.

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  drastis on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:03 am

de francesco wrote:I agree with you I just answered to this phrase of Coppenolle:

"At the end, we all know Italy is playing a bad game because if there were elections in Rain, Catania would lose for sure."

Dear von k. I see you always very accurate comment on my posts.

The others can insult and say what they want without you saying anything .....


You have not answered any of the questions. If telling you that you are wrong is an insult, then OK, sorry for pointing out 7 arguments proving you are wrong. For me it is an insult that you are avoiding to answer any of the questins, as you should have done. If you don't like discussion (which you apparently don't) then don't interfere in dialogues.

I still see you have NO VALID ARGUMENTS. (sorry for the "insult"...)

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:45 am

You wrote: It is a frustration to see that the once respectable de Francesco has become ...

I have nothing to say to you and Kechris ........


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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  kechris on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:34 am

yes i can understand you.
really are you proud for the view when you look the mirror?
You haven't nothing to say to me and Drastis. Because you can't blackmail us.
Do you have something to say at Marcus at least...? i don't think.

p.s yesterday i decided to stop spending my time with table soccer because i don't want to discuss any more with people like you and your friends. In few months i will have the final decision by courts and then we can continue our discussion. Until then FORGET ME.

Arrivederci Duce
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  de francesco on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:39 am

As usual, you missed an opportunity to shut up

My grandfather died in a concentration camp at the hands of fascists

Shame

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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  kechris on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:43 am

I am really sad for this. But i use word because i find the meaning in WIKIPEDIA

"Duce is an Italian word meaning "leader", derived from the Latin word dux, which means "leader", of which duke is a derivation."
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  kechris on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:48 am

You are very sensible with words like mafia and duce but you are very strong with persons who look for to find their right. I think it is very hypocritical by you.
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Re: FISTF Council of Nations

Post  kechris on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:00 pm

de francesco wrote: Koutromanos said to Olimpia that only paying the old fees, the club become a member of PATFAP. If Olimpia have not paid they cannot play anywhere.

I wanted to answer in this point but i forgot it. Now i remember it.
So the statutes of patfap allow ONLY persons to be members. NO CLUBS. Because patfap is club, no association for the greek law.
Please ask from your friends to give you correct information because you are writing hoots.
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