News from the Rain's weekend

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Stefano Buzzi on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:52 am

georgy wrote:Even though this is not the correct thread for this discussion, but since it HAPPENED AGAIN this weekend, I will just say it once more, and the ones who know me in Greece and Finland they know how serious I am about this specific part of the rules WHICH NEEDS IMMEDIATE REVISION!!!!!

.......
The only way to stop this is with NEW RULES!!!

Unless you prefer to have, for as long as the game exist, such behaviours!!!....

Admin wrote:I was sorry to see 3 huge case of cheating, including in the open team final when Samuel Bartolo cheated on purpose against Valéry Dejardin. And Catania came and just said "it's too late to complain now" while the referee (Thorsten Korzil) was ready to give a last free kick to Dejardin (if he scored, Belgium won the title).


You have not to change the rules.
It's enought to stop the time and to restart with 30 seconds overtime AFTER the positioning.
Another foul play? Stop the time, positioning, yellow card and other 30 seconds

The problem is not about rules, but about arbitrage. You think about a future revenge instead of to arbitrate good


Last edited by Stefano Buzzi on Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  kechris on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:07 am

Siniore Buzzi has 100% right.
Yellow card from the first time and extra 30 seconds everytime solve the problem. But of course we need a referee with balls (i don't mean subbuteo balls).
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  georgy on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:31 am

One solution is what you say Stefano, BUT THIS IS A REVISION as I said to the rules!
The BIG poblem with this solution is, as me and Kechris say that the ref needs BALLS to do it, depending on the players and their character! That's why I propose something EVEN MORE CLEAR. So even if the ref does not have the guts to give 30 extra secs then the illegal player will be punished. As we all know there is a thin line between an intentional foul in order to stop the attacker and an unintentional one (except a few very clear cases that it is the players intention jut to stop the attacker).

I am certain that even if we add these extra 30 secs there will still be conflicts because refs did or did not dare to do it.

The rules should be as clear and as context free as possible! Meaning that they should be as general
as possible. The intentional faul near the end of the game is a very grey area.

One solution would be to STOP the timer whenever there is a foul (also corner flick, side flick) during the last 30 secs of the game, but in tournaments there is usually only a main timer (another problem to solve, even if you want to add 30 extra secs you still have this problem).

Anyway further discussion is NEEDED. But PLEASE lets not end up again by doing nothing, just hoping that the refs will have the balls to punish such behaviours!




Stefano Buzzi wrote:[
You have not to change the rules.
It's enought to stop te time and to restart with 30 seconds overtime AFTER the positioning.
Another foul play? Stop the time, positioning, yellow card and other 30 seconds

The problem is not about rules, but about arbitrage. You think about a future revenge instead of to arbitrate good
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  soxy on Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:28 am

Admin wrote:I was sorry to see 3 huge case of cheating, including in the open team final when Samuel Bartolo cheated on purpose against Valéry Dejardin. And Catania came and just said "it's too late to complain now" while the referee (Thorsten Korzil) was ready to give a last free kick to Dejardin (if he scored, Belgium won the title).

In the ceremony, everybody boooooooed the Maltese team and Catania. it was soooooooooooooo funny!

There were other casesof cheating but referees don't easily give cards, which is a shame. in the U19 suddend eath between Germany and Spain, a spanish kid cause a free kick on Purpose when Kegenbein entered the shooting zone after a few seconds. "Disgusting" said some people. "That's experience", said the others... Mad Mad Mad

It is not a cae of cheting Vincent, rules applied and Valery took the advantage until he missed his last touch and the possession changed to the opponent! This is not being mentioned and is being ignored but when a change occurs, possession has to change as we all know.
About the booos, it is clear that such a nationed showed negligence and immoralty and I am very disaapointed about this fact! It was not funny Vincent it was a shame on a nation that deserves better attitude!

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:06 am

The president can nominate somebody ad interim.
If somebody resigns it doesn't lead to elections automatically.
The strange thing in our statutes is that even if the president resigns the board can continue its work till the end of the periode. (that should be a point to change too)
So you need to send those questions to Silvio Catania, he is responsible to find and nominate another sports director.

Heinz

kechris wrote:
de francesco wrote:I am no longer on the board. My job ends 31 of August.

You asked votes before 8 months as member of a company.
Now you retire. Who is the new sport director? You leave without care for the next day of your job. Very proffecional decision.
Why you left your company? Why you don't want elections? Do you like fistf without sport director?
How will select the new sport director without elections?
Simple questions but you haven't answers, only blackmail for the elections.
Can you tell me your proposal for change of one (1) rule? NO. For you all the rules are perfect.
8 months and you didn't find solution for goalkeeper size. Only suspicious proposals for one new keeper for all players.
Do you know that one member of your fantastic company (your comment before 8 months) sent to greek clubs (before 31 august) the handbook 2010-2011 with Greek major in July and that the new president of disciplinary council of FISTF is Papakonstantinou? You can check it, if you ask your friends in Greece.

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  indostar on Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:17 pm

soxy wrote:
Admin wrote:I was sorry to see 3 huge case of cheating, including in the open team final when Samuel Bartolo cheated on purpose against Valéry Dejardin. And Catania came and just said "it's too late to complain now" while the referee (Thorsten Korzil) was ready to give a last free kick to Dejardin (if he scored, Belgium won the title).

In the ceremony, everybody boooooooed the Maltese team and Catania. it was soooooooooooooo funny!

There were other casesof cheating but referees don't easily give cards, which is a shame. in the U19 suddend eath between Germany and Spain, a spanish kid cause a free kick on Purpose when Kegenbein entered the shooting zone after a few seconds. "Disgusting" said some people. "That's experience", said the others... Mad Mad Mad

It is not a cae of cheting Vincent, rules applied and Valery took the advantage until he missed his last touch and the possession changed to the opponent! This is not being mentioned and is being ignored but when a change occurs, possession has to change as we all know.
About the booos, it is clear that such a nationed showed negligence and immoralty and I am very disaapointed about this fact! It was not funny Vincent it was a shame on a nation that deserves better attitude!

Right Soxy , i'm also not happy with this attitude, but don't forget that not everybody boooooed and surely not only the belgian part .
I shaked the hand of all the Maltese players because regarding to the score they deserved the title .
But , and i understand, some poeple were frustrated about the ending of the game .
I guess it is not the first time and also not the last one, unfortunatly .
Fred

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  de francesco on Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:33 pm

Belgium eliminated Italy and Malta has eliminated Spain. Italy and Spain were the favorites.

They have earned the final and congratulations to both.

Regarding the episode occurred between Valery and Samuel was not there because we were playing the final veterans. I think the rule should be clarified well. I agree with the solution proposed by Buzzi.

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Admin on Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:58 pm

I admit "cheating" is not the right word. I'd rather say "unfair play". But the Spain U19 team did the same in the semi-final against Germay and they didn't deserve to qualify for the final.

About the boo, from what I understand, the Belgians did not even start to boooo but Hansel, you know everybody respect the win of Malta. But the boooos were probably also for other reasons... Crying or Very sad
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  soxy on Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:57 pm

With regards to other reasons Vincent, that is another issue which I do not want to comment on. I perfectly understand but the ceremony was for the win of Malta for the teams competition and not for the hot chair of FISTF. That is why I was disappointed about the booosss especially when friendship between Malta and Belgium has always been high and like others I have a lot of Belgian friends... true friends. My morale went down on hearing them shouting so aggressively to our national antheme, something which is very precious to our country.

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Janus_Gersie on Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:15 pm

soxy wrote:With regards to other reasons Vincent, that is another issue which I do not want to comment on. I perfectly understand but the ceremony was for the win of Malta for the teams competition and not for the hot chair of FISTF. That is why I was disappointed about the booosss especially when friendship between Malta and Belgium has always been high and like others I have a lot of Belgian friends... true friends. My morale went down on hearing them shouting so aggressively to our national antheme, something which is very precious to our country.

Totally agreed with one exception: there was no booooo during the national anthem. I would never let that happen !

A lot of boos were coming from some young belgians but more experienced like Delphine told them to shut up immediately.
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  soxy on Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:44 pm

That's a fact Janus and Olivier Pere came over to apologise for the jesture. I totally accepted it and all the other Maltese did. That is why I meantioned true Belgian friends as I almost know all Belgians after 5 years playing happily & loving that country.
Anyhow, matter closed and hope that such things will never happen towards any country.

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Guest on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:05 pm

Admin wrote:I admit "cheating" is not the right word. I'd rather say "unfair play". But the Spain U19 team did the same in the semi-final against Germay and they didn't deserve to qualify for the final.

About the boo, from what I understand, the Belgians did not even start to boooo but Hansel, you know everybody respect the win of Malta. But the boooos were probably also for other reasons... Crying or Very sad

Sorry Vincet you saw all the under 19 final?

The first German goal was spoiled by a "sensational" case not to play (the attacker asked if the goalie was ready and pulled without waiting for an answer ....).

You know that a component of the German team had added a 3, instead of a 2, taking advantage of the scoreboard in the second end of confusion?

you chose the wrong game if you wanted an example.

Do not crucify a child of 13 years, in serious difficulties and the first experience.

The have already told us that he was wrong and said ahe e have to Romero that he overdid the celebrations.

I do not think this game was the biggest probem World Championship ...

Paz por favor..

Piero

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  player on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:32 pm

despite this unfair play happens everywhere in competitions!!!!

It doesn''t matter. Malta won the world cup and that is a massive archeivement for a country that lives subbuteo!!!!

I have a lo of respect for Samuel, Mark, Massimo, Joseph, Derk and Hansel for joining the club of world champions!!!! WELL DONE!!!

Of course belgium should not be forgotter! They are the first country to beat Italy in ten years!!! and that is exceptional, wel doen to them as welll!!!

Furthermore, i don't like the discussion about the german and spanish kids!!! N/o one speaks a word about the dutch boys who did an amazing job!!!!!!!!! I am so happy with them!!!

Last but not least, Carlos, congratulations for finally winning the title, well deserved!!!
Hopefully next years will be stronger world cups again, becasue isnt it fistf to blame for as well that players like delogne, guimares, nastasi, giullianini, bennett, verhagen, loureiro and many more didnt play??????

MALTA well done again!



Fistf cleen the mess now and make a bright future!!!!

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Admin on Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:16 pm

Eric 100% right again.

To Piero, I don't answer. I just saw the sudden death of the game. The first bad move from the young spanish boy was "on purpose" and he deserved at least a yellow card. The most disgusting thing was to see the older spanish player congratulated him... And then we say sport is part of education... Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  von K. on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:23 pm

kechris wrote:the new president of disciplinary council of FISTF is Papakonstantinou?

Who has decided on this and when? Doesn't quite match up with friday's meeting.

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  kechris on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:34 pm

von K. wrote:
kechris wrote:the new president of disciplinary council of FISTF is Papakonstantinou?

Who has decided on this and when? Doesn't quite match up with friday's meeting.

The same person who decided Major next june in Athens. The person who decided 6 player in team event in this W.C. AND HE ASKED IF SOMEONE HAD DIFFERENT OPINION TO LEAVE THE HALL!!! The provisional president...
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  von K. on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:49 pm

The team event left a bad taste which was still in many mouths in the medal seremony. I saw the game from perfect view, and it was grave injustice in the last 30 seconds. Dejardin with a clear shooting opportunity twice deliberately fouled by Bartolo.

But it's important that the injustice was not really by Bartolo (it happens sometimes in the end as we know) or especially the other maltese players. It was by the rules, that allow the last minute to count for nothing.

In the seremony it was more about hailing belgians than booing Malta. Many people decided not to cheer or applaud the winners, but the second place team. It's understandable, as they were seen as the moral victors by the spectators. But it's not right that a big moment for the maltese players is like this. But then again, with a save instead of a foul it would've been correct.

I also feel that the FISTF presidents (should be impartial front figure at the tables, in my opinion) questionable actions in the aftermath of the fouls had it's role to play in the booing.

pierocapponi wrote:The first German goal was spoiled by a "sensational" case not to play (the attacker asked if the goalie was ready and pulled without waiting for an answer ....).

Finland refereed this so I can comment on this. The referee of that game said that the spanish player held his keeper in saving position. Also there went about ten seconds after the asking without an answer. So the referee decided to allow the goal.

It's a bit of a gray area also, but I don't see why anyone should have to wait for about ten seconds to shoot.

pierocapponi wrote:You know that a component of the German team had added a 3, instead of a 2, taking advantage of the scoreboard in the second end of confusion?

I don't know who made the score wrong on the board. But it's easily done also by mistake. In the future there should be an impartial official there, as we only had 4 referees that were all at the tables.

The spanish deliberate foul was after the game discussed, and we came to the conclusion that it should've been punished some way.


Last edited by von K. on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  von K. on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:51 pm

kechris wrote:
von K. wrote:
kechris wrote:the new president of disciplinary council of FISTF is Papakonstantinou?

Who has decided on this and when? Doesn't quite match up with friday's meeting.

The same person who decided Major next june in Athens. The person who decided 6 player in team event in this W.C. AND HE ASKED IF SOMEONE HAD DIFFERENT OPINION TO LEAVE THE HALL!!! The provisional president...

When did he decide this?

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:46 am

It is just a wrong information. The DC is like it is as long as the Council of Nations will decide otherwise.



von K. wrote:
kechris wrote:
von K. wrote:
kechris wrote:the new president of disciplinary council of FISTF is Papakonstantinou?

Who has decided on this and when? Doesn't quite match up with friday's meeting.

The same person who decided Major next june in Athens. The person who decided 6 player in team event in this W.C. AND HE ASKED IF SOMEONE HAD DIFFERENT OPINION TO LEAVE THE HALL!!! The provisional president...

When did he decide this?
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Janus_Gersie on Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:54 am

player wrote:Malta won the world cup and that is a massive archeivement for a country that lives subbuteo!!!!

Totally agreed. Congrats to Malta for playing an amazing tournament!

player wrote:N/o one speaks a word about the dutch boys who did an amazing job!!!!!!!!! I am so happy with them!!!

Yapp, Eric ! They pushed the cermonies as the best party-makers of the World. They supported each and everybody. And they deserved the title !
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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  nunu on Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:49 am

And what about our FISTF PRESIDENT who came to complain against my goalkeeper before the 1/4 of final against Italy Rolling Eyes ?

I juste bought my goalkeeper like that, and EVERYBODY has got the same... Smile

(I want to precise that my opponent ( Saverio BARI) never complained about my goalkeeper and let me play like this)

FISTF PRESIDENT were not the head referee,were not the organizer, so , how could he make such a decision ?Disturbing a player during his concentration ?Complaining about a problem that he promised to solve before the world cup ?
How can he measure a goalkeeper with a system of measure not officialy recognized by FISTF ?
Is it really the role of an FISTF PRESIDENT ?

The most incredible thing is that he just wanted to measure ONLY ONE goalkeeper, knowing that 90% of Goalkeeper are illegal...

And what about the players who are playing with illegal bases ?

... Too many issues to face, and to many blabla from actual board !


Arnaud Nullens






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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:03 am

I guess I did not understand what happened:

It has been Saverio Bari ask to change your doors (one hour before Haider had to change the goalkeeper Gauci), Galeazzi was called at that time was with me and Catania.

Catania has the responsibility as President FISTF (ever) is a member of all committees.

It has been measured by the goalkeeper, the cue was 4.5 cm (and the rule is very clear on this, and should be 4).

Catania, given the little difference, said he was not a big problem. Galeazzi comeera his responsibility, he says you must remove it.

You've refused to remove it. Bari said ok.

Things are well explained, and these are facts and not talk.

By the way, I was present at the scene so I know perfectly what I mean not as many in this forum that were not present for the world and speak from hearsay ..

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  nunu on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:11 am

pierocapponi wrote:I guess I did not understand what happened:

It has been Saverio Bari ask to change your doors (one hour before Haider had to change the goalkeeper Gauci), Galeazzi was called at that time was with me and Catania.

Catania has the responsibility as President FISTF (ever) is a member of all committees.

It has been measured by the goalkeeper, the cue was 4.5 cm (and the rule is very clear on this, and should be 4).

Catania, given the little difference, said he was not a big problem. Galeazzi comeera his responsibility, he says you must remove it.

You've refused to remove it. Bari said ok.

Things are well explained, and these are facts and not talk.

By the way, I was present at the scene so I know perfectly what I mean not as many in this forum that were not present for the world and speak from hearsay ..

Piero Capponi

Please, i was playing and Galleazi never came to my table ...Just Silvio Catania came.

Could you tell me why Saverio would have asked to remove my goalkeeper if then he allowed me to play with ? It's beyond understanding ....

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:19 am

Catania came because he had the instrument to measure the goals, and because Galezzi being Italian, he preferred to do the measurement.

Saverio has agreed to play because the difference was very small, 0.5 cm.

In the room there were many goalkeppers like yours (or much worse) but only the opponent or the referee can call the head judge.

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Re: News from the Rain's weekend

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:28 am

I was not there, but only one general comment.
If you wait that the opponent or referee complain about the goalkeeper, the problem never will be solved, because most of them play with illegal keepers too.
It isn't an excuse to say, my opponent allowed me to play, so I don't need to change the keeper if somebody official tells me to do.
Of course it is not ok, if there are other players, who can continue with illegal keepers, but on the other side the other player doesn't need to interest you. If you play with an illegal keeper and somebody official tells you to change the keeper, you have to use another keeper which is legal.

Why is it important what happens on another table? I would understand your complain, if somebody playing with an illegal keeper would be sanctioned, then you can complain about other players who use an illegal keeper too, but without any sanctions you should be fair enough to accept the decision, especially when your opponent on your table plays with a legal keeper.

May I remind you that it is a kind of cheating.

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:Catania came because he had the instrument to measure the goals, and because Galezzi being Italian, he preferred to do the measurement.

Saverio has agreed to play because the difference was very small, 0.5 cm.

In the room there were many goalkeppers like yours (or much worse) but only the opponent or the referee can call the head judge.

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