do you want the elections

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do you want the elections?

49% 49% 
[ 72 ]
51% 51% 
[ 76 ]
 
Total Votes : 148

Re: do you want the elections

Post  wrkl on Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Norbert on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:01 pm

Yes. And this afternoon, only 8 people had voted not. Now there are 57 of them. There are really cheaters everywhere.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  The Truth on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:15 pm

wrkl wrote:Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

That must mean both sides have cheated then as there are more than 34 yes votes as well.

Just shows this message board is as corrupt as the old board

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:27 pm

wrkl wrote:Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

Some of them don't show their online status.
Nevertheless it is very strange having now 107 votes and 110 registered users.
Is it possible unregistered users can vote also ?


Last edited by Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:29 pm

I guess the Truth, Len Parson and... are the same person Very Happy
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:34 pm

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:Is it possible unregistered users can vote also ?

I've just tried and it is possible.
Every unregistered user can vote too.


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Len Parsons on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:35 pm

Nothing changes then, give me free beer and i will vote for whoever wants it the most

Love Len Very Happy

ps
I am keeping my eyes on you Vincent

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:37 pm

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
Luis Filipe Horta wrote:Is it possible unregistered users can vote also ?

I've just tried and it is possible.
Every unregistered user can vote too.


Everytime you remove the forun's cookie you can have a new vote in this Forum.
This survey is invalid, whatever the result.
Don't loose your time.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:48 pm

Len Parsons wrote:Nothing changes then, give me free beer and i will vote for whoever wants it the most

Love Len Very Happy

ps
I am keeping my eyes on you Vincent
You'd better know it's totally illegal to use someone else's identity.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Thomas Vulpes on Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:04 pm

It is shear that was made was with the vote. And who will have the advantage of it. Which we have done it. Who is now for this board, I can no longer understand it
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  player on Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:35 pm

yeah indeed, ALAN COLLINS, you shouldnt use the identity of Len PArsons, specially not to speak the way you do towards Vincent.

Furthermore:

the election HAVE TO HAPPEN. Apart from it being the rules, its necessary in this very moment. Ever if it wasnt the time to have elections, i would suggest to have them now!!! Collins has been the worst thing ever happened to fistf, even worse of the existing board!

The board nowadays has already fal appart!!!

MAy be Vincent isnt the right person to be president, but may be a wise man like Janus Gersie is??? (or oliver Pere, or MArcus Tilgner, or MArkus Jurik, or Stefano de Fransesco, or MArtin Hodds, or someone else legal that knows how to communicate) But get rid of the m*nst*r who is in charge now!

Good luck coming weekend by making something normal out of the fistf!

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  von K. on Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:30 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

"Statutes:
IV
Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years."


I don't see anything about an Extraordinary Congress here. And as far as I know, the meeting in January was EC and not Congress. According to this, yes, that was nonsense...

I would also wish everyone would check the "Statutes II - Aims". For example:

"Art. 2 2-4 The aim of FISTF is to take all necessary measures to prevent breach of the Statutes and regulations of FISTF."

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
This survey is invalid, whatever the result.
Don't loose your time.

Surely there has never been an internet survey that has any validity on anything.

If real persons vote, it can give some idea of something, but nothing more.

The Truth wrote:
wrkl wrote:Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

That must mean both sides have cheated then as there are more than 34 yes votes as well.

Just shows this message board is as corrupt as the old board

I think everyone here would have loved the old message board, but someone destroyed it without asking anyone, and at the same time we lost all contact and info from the USA for example. I'd love to read news about Paul Eyes' excellent work with children there, but he was also a user of the old forum.

I remember someone asking for the identity of "The Truth". In a forum and community like this it seems strange to remain incognito. Especially with the posts of this nick. Of course it's allowed, but credibility is out the window all the time.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:22 am

that's a point for clearification.
Does the extra ordinary congress replace the congress or not.
The Extra Ordinary Congress is mentioned in this chapter.

The Congress

Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years.
8-2 The Board of Directors may at any time call for an Extraordinary Congress.
8-3 On the written request of one third or more of the Members, The Board of Directors shall call for an Extraordinary Congress within three months following the request.

in combination with the rest, it means to me that the same rules are valid for the extra ordinary congress as they are for a normal congress. That means that the periode now is from january 2010 till january 2014, so the next congress has to happen latest in january 2014.

Heinz


von K. wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

"Statutes:
IV
Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years."


I don't see anything about an Extraordinary Congress here. And as far as I know, the meeting in January was EC and not Congress. According to this, yes, that was nonsense...

I would also wish everyone would check the "Statutes II - Aims". For example:

"Art. 2 2-4 The aim of FISTF is to take all necessary measures to prevent breach of the Statutes and regulations of FISTF."

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
This survey is invalid, whatever the result.
Don't loose your time.

Surely there has never been an internet survey that has any validity on anything.

If real persons vote, it can give some idea of something, but nothing more.

The Truth wrote:
wrkl wrote:Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

That must mean both sides have cheated then as there are more than 34 yes votes as well.

Just shows this message board is as corrupt as the old board

I think everyone here would have loved the old message board, but someone destroyed it without asking anyone, and at the same time we lost all contact and info from the USA for example. I'd love to read news about Paul Eyes' excellent work with children there, but he was also a user of the old forum.

I remember someone asking for the identity of "The Truth". In a forum and community like this it seems strange to remain incognito. Especially with the posts of this nick. Of course it's allowed, but credibility is out the window all the time.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:31 am

Hi Kostas, I don't want to create confusion that already happened in january and nobody did something to solve the confusions.
Yes of course I want elections, but one more time I think they are not legal, because the application conditions are not ok in my opinion, and it is not a normal congress in my opinion. Generally I would more than welcome elections for sure.
Yes, the elections in january were not legal, it is an open secret and all members of FISTF are aware of it.
I support the federation, no board, i want to serve the players, clubs and associations. I guess you wouldn't continue supporting another sports director after loosing elections, because you think in "friends" and "enemies". It is clear that I have a closer personal relationship to Vincent after working close together for 4 years. About the work I think it wouldn't be fair to compare 8 years of Vincent with 6 months of the current board. The only thing I can say is that they don't have the experience in some things in my opinion, even if most of the people are working on national level, it is not the same to work for FISTF.
We saw in Greece how easy things can be. Mad

Please don't tell me what I should do with my time, I'm old enough to decide what to spend my time for.



kechris wrote:I cann't understand what do you dream for the future Heinz.
I read your 20 today morning messages but please explain me in simple words your opinion.
Do you want elections? yes or not
Do you believe that last elections are illegal ? yes or not
You are supporter of last or new BoD?
DO YOU WANT TO FIND SOLUTION OR YOU PREFER CHAOS BECAUSE YOU ARE OUT OF THE BoD?
Why you looking for to explain the statutes without simple logic?

WE ARE 1000 FULL ACTIVE PLAYERS IN 15 COUNTRIES WITH 100 CLUBS.
THE SIMPLE ROAD IS:
THE PLAYERS SELECT THE REPRESENTER OF THEIR CLUB.
THE CLUB'S REPRESENTERS SELECT THE REPRESENTER OF NATIONAL FEDERATION.
THE REPRESENTERS OF ASSOCIATIONS VOTE FOR FISTF BoD MEMBERS.
EVERY PLAYER CAN BE CANDIDATE FOR BoD MEMBER.

SO SIMPLE. I THINK IS THE SAME WITH FISTF STATUTES BEFORE FEW DICTATORS DECIDE TO CHANGE THE MEANING OF WORDS.

PLEASE SPEND YOUR TIME FOR PROPOSALS AND NO FOR EXPLANATIONS.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  zinga on Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:49 am

Heinz Eder wrote:that's a point for clearification.
Does the extra ordinary congress replace the congress or not.
Well, I assume it is EOC's role to decide how to proceed, and if the next Congress will be after four years or as scheduled on the basis of the last real Congress. You seem to forget that the Congress (or EOC) is the legislative body of FISTF. As I understand, the EOC decided that the elected BoD is provisional and will act only untill the Congress organized in September 2010. That is a decision that cannot be overruled by the Bod! Similarly, the Congress can decide that now FISTF will elect a new BoD so that there will be a new Congress next year.

Do not try to find loopholes from the statutes and just follow your common sense and the will of member nations. At least I hope that it is a will of member nations to have an election this week.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:03 am

Heinz,
You talk to much and you are badly informed too.
And you don't know when to stop also.
This survey was turned to a joke by someone.
It is the real situation of FISTF now.

To all,
Stop talking and act next Friday.

I stop here in this forum

Kind Regards


Heinz Eder wrote:that's a point for clearification.
Does the extra ordinary congress replace the congress or not.
The Extra Ordinary Congress is mentioned in this chapter.

The Congress

Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years.
8-2 The Board of Directors may at any time call for an Extraordinary Congress.
8-3 On the written request of one third or more of the Members, The Board of Directors shall call for an Extraordinary Congress within three months following the request.

in combination with the rest, it means to me that the same rules are valid for the extra ordinary congress as they are for a normal congress. That means that the periode now is from january 2010 till january 2014, so the next congress has to happen latest in january 2014.

Heinz


von K. wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

"Statutes:
IV
Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years."


I don't see anything about an Extraordinary Congress here. And as far as I know, the meeting in January was EC and not Congress. According to this, yes, that was nonsense...

I would also wish everyone would check the "Statutes II - Aims". For example:

"Art. 2 2-4 The aim of FISTF is to take all necessary measures to prevent breach of the Statutes and regulations of FISTF."

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
This survey is invalid, whatever the result.
Don't loose your time.

Surely there has never been an internet survey that has any validity on anything.

If real persons vote, it can give some idea of something, but nothing more.

The Truth wrote:
wrkl wrote:Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

That must mean both sides have cheated then as there are more than 34 yes votes as well.

Just shows this message board is as corrupt as the old board

I think everyone here would have loved the old message board, but someone destroyed it without asking anyone, and at the same time we lost all contact and info from the USA for example. I'd love to read news about Paul Eyes' excellent work with children there, but he was also a user of the old forum.

I remember someone asking for the identity of "The Truth". In a forum and community like this it seems strange to remain incognito. Especially with the posts of this nick. Of course it's allowed, but credibility is out the window all the time.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:18 am

I don't try to find loopholes, loopholes are found by others and associations are suffering now.
I agree on it that the decision was to make elections in september again.
Now the associations complain that the board wants to cancel the elections, but nobody complained about the application criterias and nobody forced the board to change that.
Now we have a situation, where candidates can't be on the list for the elections.

So have fun with elections, which will be very fair. I'm really curious about to see who will vote for whom, so far I'm sure associations have many information from the candidates to take their decision whom to give a vote.
Associations are not interested in preferred teams of the candidates for president, associations are not interested in programs for the different departments. Associations are not interested who prefers which job in case of being elected. The congress is in 3 days!

Sorry, but what kind of elections will it be? Do you call it democracy only because of raising your hand without knowing what you are raising your hand for? Those elections will be personal election, association will vote on the fact, if they like or don't like a person.

I'm not in favour of cancelling elections out of the mentioned reasons of the board, but the associations didn't do their job.
I ask if the associations are able to vote for the good of FISTF in Rain.

Wake up associations!
Be active, take your responsibility and if needed use your power in FISTF.


zinga wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:that's a point for clearification.
Does the extra ordinary congress replace the congress or not.
Well, I assume it is EOC's role to decide how to proceed, and if the next Congress will be after four years or as scheduled on the basis of the last real Congress. You seem to forget that the Congress (or EOC) is the legislative body of FISTF. As I understand, the EOC decided that the elected BoD is provisional and will act only untill the Congress organized in September 2010. That is a decision that cannot be overruled by the Bod! Similarly, the Congress can decide that now FISTF will elect a new BoD so that there will be a new Congress next year.

Do not try to find loopholes from the statutes and just follow your common sense and the will of member nations. At least I hope that it is a will of member nations to have an election this week.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:26 am

If you are better informed you could maybe let participate us on your better knowledge.

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:Heinz,
You talk to much and you are badly informed too.
And you don't know when to stop also.
This survey was turned to a joke by someone.
It is the real situation of FISTF now.

To all,
Stop talking and act next Friday.

I stop here in this forum

Kind Regards


Heinz Eder wrote:that's a point for clearification.
Does the extra ordinary congress replace the congress or not.
The Extra Ordinary Congress is mentioned in this chapter.

The Congress

Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years.
8-2 The Board of Directors may at any time call for an Extraordinary Congress.
8-3 On the written request of one third or more of the Members, The Board of Directors shall call for an Extraordinary Congress within three months following the request.

in combination with the rest, it means to me that the same rules are valid for the extra ordinary congress as they are for a normal congress. That means that the periode now is from january 2010 till january 2014, so the next congress has to happen latest in january 2014.

Heinz


von K. wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

"Statutes:
IV
Art. 8
8-1 The Congress is the general assembly of FISTF and takes place every four years."


I don't see anything about an Extraordinary Congress here. And as far as I know, the meeting in January was EC and not Congress. According to this, yes, that was nonsense...

I would also wish everyone would check the "Statutes II - Aims". For example:

"Art. 2 2-4 The aim of FISTF is to take all necessary measures to prevent breach of the Statutes and regulations of FISTF."

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
This survey is invalid, whatever the result.
Don't loose your time.

Surely there has never been an internet survey that has any validity on anything.

If real persons vote, it can give some idea of something, but nothing more.

The Truth wrote:
wrkl wrote:Something fishy here.

Only 34 people have visited the site since this poll was listed. Yet there are over 90 votes Embarassed

That must mean both sides have cheated then as there are more than 34 yes votes as well.

Just shows this message board is as corrupt as the old board

I think everyone here would have loved the old message board, but someone destroyed it without asking anyone, and at the same time we lost all contact and info from the USA for example. I'd love to read news about Paul Eyes' excellent work with children there, but he was also a user of the old forum.

I remember someone asking for the identity of "The Truth". In a forum and community like this it seems strange to remain incognito. Especially with the posts of this nick. Of course it's allowed, but credibility is out the window all the time.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  zinga on Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:43 am

Heinz Eder wrote:I agree on it that the decision was to make elections in september again.
Well, that wasn't so hard, was it? Cool

Heinz Eder wrote:Now the associations complain that the board wants to cancel the elections, but nobody complained about the application criterias and nobody forced the board to change that.
Now we have a situation, where candidates can't be on the list for the elections.
The board did not really make it easy to complain by using their non-communication policy. You know, it is BoD's role to be the executive body of FISTF and to prepare candidates and elections for the Congress and for the Member nations. Did the BoD do it's tasks? No?

Now it is Member nations turn to act and to elect a new Bod that will do it's tasks. Are you not trusting the Congress Delegates? I am pretty sure that the statutes will allow Congress to elect whoever they want for the BoD even if the current Bod would say that it is not possible. That is the power of Congress and the Member nations!
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  drastis on Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:48 am

zinga wrote:Now it is Member nations turn to act and to elect a new Bod that will do it's tasks. Are you not trusting the Congress Delegates? I am pretty sure that the statutes will allow Congress to elect whoever they want for the BoD even if the current Bod would say that it is not possible. That is the power of Congress and the Member nations!

All the essence in one paragraph!!! My deepest respect to zinga.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Guest on Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:37 pm

Hello,

Today officially ends my disastrous experience FISTF.

As President of the AFM (the Spanish Federation) that I put down here, in my opinion, the only possible solution to the current situation:

"Dear friends,

After some difficulty months in the FISTF and within two weeks for the meeting in Rain we would like to make a small analisis of the situation and advance a proposal.

-In first place, too many countries think that new elections in Rain would not solucionate the actual complicated situation of the FISTF. We have arrived to a very complicated situation without communication between both "bands" and in any case the board would be an explosive mixture.

-In second place, we think that the actual situacion with the table football, with their players and board directors with 40 years old as average age and with a clear shortage of young players (as example, in the Rain championship there are only 2 teams sub 12...) requiere special and extraordinary measures to draw a future.

-We have in the table several "fundamental" points that force us to do not pospone the important decisions: security, privacity, materials, rules. All of them are aspects that we should try if we want that our game would be recognised in the XX century.

For this reason we propose the following:

- Cancel the elections.
- Resignation of the actual board.
- Create a permanent Counsel for president/ representatives. Each country will have one representative in this Councel.
- The Counsel will design 4 representatives for the ordinary administration (Secretary´s office, Finances, Communication, and Sport).
- Each member of the Counsel could present in detail any proposition of change, modification, creation of rules, standard principles, etc. The mentioned propositions will be voted for the Counsel with the simple majority system.
- Under the Counsel petition, it could be celebrated an assembly in the middle of the season to see the situation point.
- The Counsel will decide, under the simple majority formula, when celebrate the new elections.


This is a proposition, obviously, but we truly believe that we need a real change before the situation worsens.



I am looking forward to hearing your comments.



Best regards
"

A big Hug

Piero Capponi
Presidente AFM





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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:40 pm

A proposal that does not match the statutes of FISTF...
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:59 pm

Piero's proposal is wise and should be discussed and voted next Friday.
Future of FISTF is on the congress majority's hands now.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Guest on Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:02 pm

There is something about what happened lately which coincides with the statutes of the FISTF?

(I will not argue with anyone. However I think the current situation is so serious that we must be flexible with the statute. However I will not be present at the meeting.)

Un abrazo desde Madrid.

Piero

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  wrkl on Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:20 pm

pierocapponi wrote:For this reason we propose the following:

- Cancel the elections.
- Resignation of the actual board.
- Create a permanent Counsel for president/ representatives. Each country will have one representative in this Councel.
- The Counsel will design 4 representatives for the ordinary administration (Secretary´s office, Finances, Communication, and Sport).
- Each member of the Counsel could present in detail any proposition of change, modification, creation of rules, standard principles, etc. The mentioned propositions will be voted for the Counsel with the simple majority system.
- Under the Counsel petition, it could be celebrated an assembly in the middle of the season to see the situation point.
- The Counsel will decide, under the simple majority formula, when celebrate the new elections.


This is a proposition, obviously, but we truly believe that we need a real change before the situation worsens.



I am looking forward to hearing your comments.



Best regards[/i]"

A big Hug

Piero Capponi
Presidente AFM





I like this idea.

However I would prefer it if you were at the meeting in order to support the suggestion.

If this were to be carried forward it would sort out a lot of unpleasant differences.

Perhaps it could have been suggested a few weeks ago Cool

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