do you want the elections

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do you want the elections?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  panagios on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:08 pm

So, how many nations should ask for this ? and how long before?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  drastis on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:12 pm

maxischn wrote:the answer i got asking for the candidates:

Please be informed that an official list was sent already with CIRCULAR0023. This was sent to you
again with all other Presidents on the 9th June 2010.
There was only one refused from a Greek candidate for the sole reason that he is not even a member
of the Federation which represents Greece in the FISTF. Another one from Greece was halted from
Greece Federation and the person himself. I am enclosing CIRCULAR0023 for ease of reference but I
also invite you to check the website for all these circulars.

back to the part saying "refused from a Greek candidate for the sole reason that he is not even a member of the Federation which represents Greece in the FISTF"

i wonder what he would say if a business man from iceland (? or some other non-FISTF member country) wants to candidate being a well-known prominent reporter or someone who is willing to do something "professional" for the sport and has the time, money and knowledge.... sorry, go away you are not a member....

Nowhere in FISTF Statuses is written that someone has to be member of a National Association in order to be a candidate for FISTF BoD. Everything else is nonsense.

The truth is that mr Koutroumanos does not want any other Greek player apart from himself to be elected in FISTF BoD. So, by the help of the Great Democrat mr Catania, the other two Greek candidates (mr Aggelinas and I) were excluded by the use of dirty means. Exactly the same method was used in the elections of 2008 in Greece, when the other candidate for the election was excluded (together with the 14 players that would surely vote for him) so that the current "President" of PATFAP would be elected as the only candidate left.

I still consider my nomination as valid, since no BoD has the power to override FISTF statuses. So, I ask from National Representatives to vote for me in FISTF Congress in Rain. Mr Catania's decision to exclude me from the candidates' list is as illegal as his other decision to cancel the election!

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:13 pm

in my opinion some clearifications need to be added to the actual statutes for a case simular the actual one.

the extra ordinary congress should only elect a board till the next regular congress.

the members of the disciplinary council should be voted by the congress too.
actually the fistf board can change the members of that council like they want.

it should only be possible to hold a maximum of 1 extra ordinary congress every year asked by 1/3 of the member nations.

if the president resigns an extra ordinary congress with elections should be compulsory.
at the moment the vice president leads FISTF till the end of the term

there need to be written down rules about applications.

FISTF should check the status of its "real" members.

only a few points to start a discussion about the more important points.

Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

Heinz

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:Why should it be an extra ordinary congress ? non sense.

Heinz Eder wrote:Honestly my opinion is:
the whole congress is illegal, because it should be an extra ordinary congress.

now confusion is complete, right? Laughing

Heinz


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:15 pm

that is an interesting question.
I don't know how many members FISFT has according on its statutes.
there were 7 associations in january who asked for the extra ordinary congress and the previous board had 3 months time to prepare the extra ordinary congress according on our statutes.

Heinz

panagios wrote:So, how many nations should ask for this ? and how long before?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  drastis on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:22 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

Heinz

Bullshit?? YES

There was NO legal election in January, according to FISTF Statuses. There was a "block vote" which is absolutely illegal and thus the BoD was named PROVISIONAL and its only task was to prepare the election in September. All these things are known and understood by everyone.

As for you, I think you are not obliged to become a supporter of EVERY potential dictator comes around...

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:26 pm

Drastis is absolutely right. It was supposed to have the Congress as normal at the world cup. it was agreed by everyone and Catania made the promise it would happen. He claimed himself as "provisional president". So this Congress is scheduled for September 3 and it will happen, that we like it or not.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:30 pm

it would be the work of the board to check the following things to make a clear new start.

the members have to send national statutes and rules to FISTF and the board has to check them if they are in accordance with the FISTF statutes, that was not done in the past, but now with extra ordinary congresses and many candidates for the FISTF board, this will be very important to do elections in a proper way.
the only question is, who should pay the costs for translation (in case of statutes and rules I think it isn't enough to translate with the english we use here on the forum).
then the board should prepare the whole set of new statutes and send it to the associations.
additionally the board should ask for information in all countries, who wish to become member, if there is a register, where the association is mentioned with the actual board according on the national law. If something like that exists, the board should ask for that too.
Having that the FISTF Board can see, if a representative of a member association is allowed to represent the national association.
that should be the result of the wish to be very professional. those who want that, should do all the things mentioned above.

somebody who can do that in a few days till friday is welcome Laughing

i would propose to find a solution without elections in rain now and prepare things in a proper way for a meeting in january again. the new season is prepared, no board could change many things for the next season anyway. i think time should be the most important factor now, everything else would end in another chaos. we even don't have a handbook for the next season!?

Heinz

panagios wrote:So, how many nations should ask for this ? and how long before?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:33 pm

Drastis you are right.
in that case, the actual board is not the board!?
so it would be another question what legal papers are the latest sent to french authority.
maybe vincent is still president in view of the french authority?

Heinz

drastis wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

Heinz

Bullshit?? YES

There was NO legal election in January, according to FISTF Statuses. There was a "block vote" which is absolutely illegal and thus the BoD was named PROVISIONAL and its only task was to prepare the election in September. All these things are known and understood by everyone.

As for you, I think you are not obliged to become a supporter of EVERY potential dictator comes around...

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:39 pm

you complain that it is not legal that you are not allowed to be candidate, but you would accept illegal elections now, the most important thing for you is to be part of elections? very selfish in my opinion.
you can't pick out the best things for you personally and forget the other things, which aren't maybe confortable.

I don't support anyone, i only opened the statutes of FISTF and read them. Why do you become personal in your last sentence, did I become personal against you!?
You don't seem to understand what I write.

Heinz

drastis wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

Heinz

Bullshit?? YES

There was NO legal election in January, according to FISTF Statuses. There was a "block vote" which is absolutely illegal and thus the BoD was named PROVISIONAL and its only task was to prepare the election in September. All these things are known and understood by everyone.

As for you, I think you are not obliged to become a supporter of EVERY potential dictator comes around...


Last edited by Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:40 pm

No, I'm not president anymore. Can't you remember Catania and Koutromanos had already prepared and typed all the letters to send to the french government to say I was not president anymore? It's funny to see all papers were printed even before the elections. What a joke!

the members have to send national statutes and rules to FISTF and the board has to check them if they are in accordance with the FISTF statutes, that was not done in the past, but now with extra ordinary congresses and many candidates for the FISTF board, this will be very important to do elections in a proper way.
i'm not against rules but we must be honest. We are running a sport with less than 2000 players int he world, not governing the UNITED NATIONS!
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  wrkl on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:47 pm

I'll say at this stage I'm a big Eder fan. He's managed to work sensibly with both FISTF boards and has been a great help to me over the last 6 months.

But, I do not think anyone could argue that the vote in January was in accordance with FISTF regulations. Was the vote for President anonymous? I don't think so.

Therefore Heinz it is difficult for you to dismiss a Congress in Rain when one of the reasons given for the block vote was that it was a temporary measure until the World Cup.

There are several good reasons for an anonymous vote for president. I'm sure I do not need to state what they are here.

Lets hope people take up what you say about discussing matters at the congress so that some sort of comprimise can be reached.
As Vincent says were not running the United Nations here. There are less than 20 people playing in Wales and if they ever access this forum there will be less than 10

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:47 pm

Vincent, i understand fully your view, but we have people who are not scared to take legal actions, if they only find the smallest mistake.
If we are not running the united nations, why do we have regulations like we would run the UNO?
What is the problem to reduce the statutes to the most important basics for an association?

Anyway, i stop discussion here, and only read the following comments again. only a small thing, i was on holidays for 2 weeks, and to read all those postings of the last 2 weeks today in a row doesn't give the best impression. most postings were only personal. the facts are written down in the statutes, so i can't understand many postings.

Heinz

Admin wrote:No, I'm not president anymore. Can't you remember Catania and Koutromanos had already prepared and typed all the letters to send to the french government to say I was not president anymore? It's funny to see all papers were printed even before the elections. What a joke!

the members have to send national statutes and rules to FISTF and the board has to check them if they are in accordance with the FISTF statutes, that was not done in the past, but now with extra ordinary congresses and many candidates for the FISTF board, this will be very important to do elections in a proper way.
i'm not against rules but we must be honest. We are running a sport with less than 2000 players int he world, not governing the UNITED NATIONS!

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Thossa on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:53 pm

What the provisonal BoD did or did not for the congress on Friday, September 3rd, is already a farse and far away from being professional. It is a question of what is the best now to do, to bring FISTF back on the right track and not to proof all statues or "missing" statues.

My proposal is:
1) The congress should elect a new "provisional BoD" for a period of one year, without looking on the published list by the current BoD.
2) The congress should decide the next congress must be held at the next WC 2011 in Rome/ Fiumicino.


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  zinga on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:00 pm

Heinz, you had many good points in your earlier post about issues in statutes. Those points should be corrected by the Congress. That is not possible in this Congress, thus we need a new Congress where one of the main points would be the new statutes to correct issues like you presented.

Heinz Eder wrote:i would propose to find a solution without elections in rain now and prepare things in a proper way for a meeting in january again. the new season is prepared, no board could change many things for the next season anyway. i think time should be the most important factor now, everything else would end in another chaos. we even don't have a handbook for the next season!?
Here you go wrong. The elections are a must. Current board is not capable of doing their job and FISTF needs a board. What we need is a board that 1) prepares the new season, 2) prepares new elections for the next Congress (held in 2011), and prepares new statutes with correction you and many others have pointed out.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  zinga on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:03 pm

Thossa wrote:My proposal is:
1) The congress should elect a new "provisional BoD" for a period of one year, without looking on the published list by the current BoD.
2) The congress should decide the next congress must be held at the next WC 2011 in Rome/ Fiumicino.
Zinga wrote:The elections are a must. Current board is not capable of doing their job and FISTF needs a board. What we need is a board that 1) prepares the new season, 2) prepares new elections for the next Congress (held in 2011), and prepares new statutes with correction you and many others have pointed out.

Thossa, you took the words out of my mouth. Cool
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:05 pm

John but at the end we need a minimum of consense which should be that neither the FISTF Board nor the members of FISTF can overrule the statutes of FISTF which unfortunately happened in january.

If we don't manage it to make individual votes, we need to change the statutes. If we don't manage it to check all the facts about membership at FISTF, we need to change the stautes.

I never said that I'm a fan of the actual statutes, but we have them now. FISTF Board and Associations are also free to change the criterias for being member of FISTF.
What I want to say is, that somebody has to start with the work, the people in january told that they will prepare something, then they sent a few things, understood by nobody, so the interest was very low, the interest in those things generally isn't very high so there is a need to prepare things in a better way to wake the interest of the associations.
Additionally I think that the new board left out all the "hot" topics.

I lost elections in january too. I worked without a vote or any influence on things outside of my working area. When i was director some people blamed me to do it only out of personal interests about power now without that power I support every "dictator" coming around. Question

Heinz
wrkl wrote:I'll say at this stage I'm a big Eder fan. He's managed to work sensibly with both FISTF boards and has been a great help to me over the last 6 months.

But, I do not think anyone could argue that the vote in January was in accordance with FISTF regulations. Was the vote for President anonymous? I don't think so.

Therefore Heinz it is difficult for you to dismiss a Congress in Rain when one of the reasons given for the block vote was that it was a temporary measure until the World Cup.

There are several good reasons for an anonymous vote for president. I'm sure I do not need to state what they are here.

Lets hope people take up what you say about discussing matters at the congress so that some sort of comprimise can be reached.
As Vincent says were not running the United Nations here. There are less than 20 people playing in Wales and if they ever access this forum there will be less than 10

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Thossa on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:13 pm

zinga wrote:
Thossa wrote:My proposal is:
1) The congress should elect a new "provisional BoD" for a period of one year, without looking on the published list by the current BoD.
2) The congress should decide the next congress must be held at the next WC 2011 in Rome/ Fiumicino.
Zinga wrote:The elections are a must. Current board is not capable of doing their job and FISTF needs a board. What we need is a board that 1) prepares the new season, 2) prepares new elections for the next Congress (held in 2011), and prepares new statutes with correction you and many others have pointed out.

Thossa, you took the words out of my mouth. Cool

I am looking for some beer with you at the Bäuml in Rain. What do you think Laughing Question
When do you arrive ?
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:16 pm

Zinga, i respect your opinion, but the next season is prepared now.
The preparations for the season 2011/2012 start in april or may 2011.
so in my opinion the meeting in rain should be used to discuss about the statutes, the next step should be that the meeting should decide about people who should replace those who resigned from the current board.
then the meeting should decide together that an extra ordinary congress needs to be done in january 2011 with proper elections and that extra ordinary congress should decide about the changes in the statutes too (which should be legally ok till then). Those meeting minutes should be sent to the french authority then.
the board elected in january 2011 should prepare the season 2011/2012 and then in september 2014 we have a normal congress again in case we don't change the periode of the FISTF Board.

Anyway, the board additionally could ask the legal advisor of FISFT about the right way of acting too.

Heinz

zinga wrote:Heinz, you had many good points in your earlier post about issues in statutes. Those points should be corrected by the Congress. That is not possible in this Congress, thus we need a new Congress where one of the main points would be the new statutes to correct issues like you presented.

Heinz Eder wrote:i would propose to find a solution without elections in rain now and prepare things in a proper way for a meeting in january again. the new season is prepared, no board could change many things for the next season anyway. i think time should be the most important factor now, everything else would end in another chaos. we even don't have a handbook for the next season!?
Here you go wrong. The elections are a must. Current board is not capable of doing their job and FISTF needs a board. What we need is a board that 1) prepares the new season, 2) prepares new elections for the next Congress (held in 2011), and prepares new statutes with correction you and many others have pointed out.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Thossa on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:20 pm

Heinz,

don´t waste other people expanses. No need for an extraordinary congress in january 2011 Exclamation if we elect a new provisional BoD at the CONGRESS in Rain
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  zinga on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:22 pm

Thossa wrote:I am looking for some beer with you at the Bäuml in Rain. What do you think Laughing Question
When do you arrive ?
Sorry, but for the family reasons I will skip the World cup and Congress. You can count on Helsinki Open 2011 or next years World Cup! Smile
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  drastis on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:59 pm

Although I am possibly losing my time trying to explain to you, I will answer your questions (answers in red).

Heinz Eder wrote:you complain that it is not legal that you are not allowed to be candidate, but you would accept illegal elections now (Asking elections in Rain is ILLEGAL??), the most important thing for you is to be part of elections(No, for me the most important thing is to have elections, plus you become personal...)? very selfish in my opinion (You become personal again...). you can't pick out the best things for you personally and forget the other things, which aren't maybe confortable (Again, you become personal...).

I don't support anyone, i only opened the statutes of FISTF and read them. Why do you become personal in your last sentence, did I become personal against you!? (Only three times in the previous paragraph Laughing )
You don't seem to understand what I write. (YOU don't seem to understand what YOU write)

Heinz


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:02 pm

asking for elections is not the problem, but the elections itself will be illegal again.

kind regards
the supporter of all dictators coming around

drastis wrote:Although I am possibly losing my time trying to explain to you, I will answer your questions (answers in red).

Heinz Eder wrote:you complain that it is not legal that you are not allowed to be candidate, but you would accept illegal elections now (Asking elections in Rain is ILLEGAL??), the most important thing for you is to be part of elections(No, for me the most important thing is to have elections, plus you become personal...)? very selfish in my opinion (You become personal again...). you can't pick out the best things for you personally and forget the other things, which aren't maybe confortable (Again, you become personal...).

I don't support anyone, i only opened the statutes of FISTF and read them. Why do you become personal in your last sentence, did I become personal against you!? (Only three times in the previous paragraph Laughing )
You don't seem to understand what I write. (YOU don't seem to understand what YOU write)

Heinz


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  kechris on Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:11 pm

I cann't understand what do you dream for the future Heinz.
I read your 20 today morning messages but please explain me in simple words your opinion.
Do you want elections? yes or not
Do you believe that last elections are illegal ? yes or not
You are supporter of last or new BoD?
DO YOU WANT TO FIND SOLUTION OR YOU PREFER CHAOS BECAUSE YOU ARE OUT OF THE BoD?
Why you looking for to explain the statutes without simple logic?

WE ARE 1000 FULL ACTIVE PLAYERS IN 15 COUNTRIES WITH 100 CLUBS.
THE SIMPLE ROAD IS:
THE PLAYERS SELECT THE REPRESENTER OF THEIR CLUB.
THE CLUB'S REPRESENTERS SELECT THE REPRESENTER OF NATIONAL FEDERATION.
THE REPRESENTERS OF ASSOCIATIONS VOTE FOR FISTF BoD MEMBERS.
EVERY PLAYER CAN BE CANDIDATE FOR BoD MEMBER.

SO SIMPLE. I THINK IS THE SAME WITH FISTF STATUTES BEFORE FEW DICTATORS DECIDE TO CHANGE THE MEANING OF WORDS.

PLEASE SPEND YOUR TIME FOR PROPOSALS AND NO FOR EXPLANATIONS.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:17 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:asking for elections is not the problem, but the elections itself will be illegal again.

Till now you (or anybody) did not present us any valid reason or article from the statutes to show us why is illegal elections next Friday. Opinions only don't count.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  drastis on Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:14 pm

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
Till now you (or anybody) did not present us any valid reason or article from the statutes to show us why is illegal elections next Friday. Opinions only don't count.

Right Luis. Elections is the only LEGITIMATE option. So, my proposal is the following:

Elections in Rain and if anybody has any legal objection let HIM spend HIS money and time for objections in courts, lawyers and such. The rest of us in FISTF will have a NEW BoD to care for the game.

GOODBYE LENIN (a really wonderful movie, strongly suggested)

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