do you want the elections

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do you want the elections?

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do you want the elections

Post  Thomas Vulpes on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:28 am

do you want the elections?
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  maxischn on Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:46 am

there shouldn't even be a question if we "want" them, they HAVE to be done
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:05 pm

It would be interesting to know why some people answer "no"...
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Norbert on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:36 pm

The elections have to be done. It's clear. No reason to cancel it.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Mike Parnaby on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:38 pm

IF the elections were to take place, do we know who would stand for election against the current board members, or in place of those who have 'resigned'?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:32 pm

Not only candidatures were asked months ago but also:
1) the Board made so many mistakes it's impossible to continue with them;
2) the Board has 3 or 4 members left so it can not continue this way.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  maxischn on Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:31 pm

the answer i got asking for the candidates:

Please be informed that an official list was sent already with CIRCULAR0023. This was sent to you
again with all other Presidents on the 9th June 2010.
There was only one refused from a Greek candidate for the sole reason that he is not even a member
of the Federation which represents Greece in the FISTF. Another one from Greece was halted from
Greece Federation and the person himself. I am enclosing CIRCULAR0023 for ease of reference but I
also invite you to check the website for all these circulars.


These candidates were:

Post of President - CATANIA Silvio (Malta) / COPPENOLLE Vincent (Belgium)

Post of Member in the Board

BUSING Thorsten (Germany)
COLLINS Alan (England)
GARNIER Laurent (France)
GERSIE Janus (Germany)
HORTA Louis (Portugal)
KOUTROUMANOS Leonidas (Greece)
VANTON Frederic (Belgium)
VULPES Fred (Germany)


As the suspension has be found irregular and not valid, we got 2 candidates for president and some BoD members....


*edit*

back to the part saying "refused from a Greek candidate for the sole reason that he is not even a member of the Federation which represents Greece in the FISTF"

i wonder what he would say if a business man from iceland (? or some other non-FISTF member country) wants to candidate being a well-known prominent reporter or someone who is willing to do something "professional" for the sport and has the time, money and knowledge.... sorry, go away you are not a member....
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Thossa on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:16 pm

Just read FISTF Circular0034ii

Let me quote:
We need time to plan good elections and a very positive congress. A location and a date will be nominated soon.

How far is soon in the understanding of somebody who don´t want to give up the power?
Who will pay the expensenses?

Since end of May all candidates are nominated and the current President of the provisional BoD wasn´t able "to plan good elections and a very positive congress" or lets call it an agenda within three months. That´s the fact.



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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:48 pm

no elections = no world cup!
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  von K. on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:52 pm

It's unbelievable that some people really are voting that they don't want elections. So everything is perfect in the BoD and not even additional members in place of those who have resigned are needed.

But it's clear that elections are going to take place.

The sad thing is that some candidates have been illegally (to my knowledge) thrown away, and those who wont participate in the Congress really don't know what they can vote (many things can happen in the Congress). It's disgusting.

Talking about lack of time is just a poor excuse. The time for the provisional BoD was known to them from the beginning.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Norbert on Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:49 pm

Thossa wrote:Just read FISTF Circular0034ii

Let me quote:
We need time to plan good elections and a very positive congress. A location and a date will be nominated soon.

How far is soon in the understanding of somebody who don´t want to give up the power?
Who will pay the expensenses?

Since end of May all candidates are nominated and the current President of the provisional BoD wasn´t able "to plan good elections and a very positive congress" or lets call it an agenda within three months. That´s the fact.

For this Board, to plan good elections means winner elections for them. And about the "location of a positive congress": Italy? Malta?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  kechris on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:49 am

Admin wrote:Not only candidatures were asked months ago but also:
1) the Board made so many mistakes it's impossible to continue with them;
2) the Board has 3 or 4 members left so it can not continue this way.

Admin wrote:no elections = no world cup!

Vincent be carefull in your comments.
The Board made mistakes but your BoD also did mistakes.
And by your BoD had retired members but you replaced them.
You also banned me because you think that i wanted to postpone the E.C. in Athens. Many people spent money to travel to Rain next weekend.

Everybody wants election and we agree with you that this BoD cann't continue working. But don't forget that you lost the elections before 6 months because the representers of federations were not satisfied with your BoD.
I understand your personal problem against BoD but we care for table soccer. We are not looking for the better solution but for the best solution for the future. Of course new BoD is the worst solution.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:35 am

Sorry but in january these were not real elections. Do you know the word "putsch"?
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  panagios on Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:08 am

@VonK

you are an advocate of democracy and at the same time you are wondering why some people voted no? Get yourself together man! this is the essence of democracy. Difference of opinion within the limits of the law and tolerance for this opinion. Your attitude is somewhat dangerous.


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Janus_Gersie on Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:44 am

Admin wrote:no elections = no world cup!

For sure the WorldCup will take place. We can't punish the players who will come to enjoy the game. For our beloved game we have the WC and for the political issues we have the Congress ...

Janus
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:52 am

Janus_Gersie wrote:
Admin wrote:no elections = no world cup!

For sure the WorldCup will take place. We can't punish the players who will come to enjoy the game. For our beloved game we have the WC and for the political issues we have the Congress ...

Janus
For sure but there must be some kind of clean protest. I can't believe the international community can support a dictature.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  von K. on Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:23 am

panagios wrote:@VonK

you are an advocate of democracy and at the same time you are wondering why some people voted no? Get yourself together man! this is the essence of democracy. Difference of opinion within the limits of the law and tolerance for this opinion. Your attitude is somewhat dangerous.


I see your point, but feel that the limits of law and tolerance are overstepped if elections are canceled. That's the reason for my views. I hope to explain my thinking with the following.

If in Congress (to be held every 4 years) in elections that are done according to the law and statutes something is decided, then so be it. But even after the elections criticism is welcome. That's what happens in politics also.

People voting no to elections on the internet, thus not caring about the law and statutes, and not arguing about their decision, are open to criticism in my opinion. If someone wants to criticize my voting here, and does it with arguments, it's also ok.

I wouldn't call myself an advocate of democracy. Many times "a good king" would be better. It's just not possible in most societies.

I haven't seen many people genuinely interested in the views and needs of absolutely all countries of TF. And then there are many players of different levels who want different things, but are not heard at all. This attitude should be corrected, and I can't see that happening with either C as President.

If things are done properly with valid arguments for, and without abuse of power, personal issues etc, then most people find the decisions better even if they don't agree 100%. That makes it easier to feel united.

I'm no saint nor perfect.


Last edited by von K. on Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  panagios on Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:45 am

If you are looking for the good king you run the danger of finding out much later that the king is not good AND you cannot vote him out since he is a king and kings are appointed by god's will.

Elections mean democracy and the freedom for the majority to rule the whole of the society by will. This said, not everyone will be happy but he must learn to protest in a lawful manner. You must learn to respect the minority , to prove yourself a worthy majority. Even if THEY do not respect you. This is the difficult part, but democracy is not easy my friend.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  von K. on Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:56 am

panagios wrote:If you are looking for the good king you run the danger of finding out much later that the king is not good AND you cannot vote him out since he is a king and kings are appointed by god's will.

I know. That's why a good king is the best solution, but the possibility of a bad king makes it utopia in most cases. But throughout history, when communities were smaller, the good king (if he was good) was a perfect solution. But I certainly am not saying that we should replace democracy in the FISTF.

In democracy the problem is that most people are voting without knowing enough, and people also tend not to vote for something that takes something away from them, even if they know it would be necessary for the good of the community.

Difficult things, politics.

panagios wrote:Elections mean democracy and the freedom for the majority to rule the whole of the society by will. This said, not everyone will be happy but he must learn to protest in a lawful manner. You must learn to respect the minority , to prove yourself a worthy majority. Even if THEY do not respect you. This is the difficult part, but democracy is not easy my friend.

True, of course. And the foundation for any working government (or Board) is genuine, open and lawful elections.

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  hönkki on Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:06 pm

From the CIRCULAR0034 ii

"So our suggestion is simple. The Congress will take place on another date."

Are there any rules left ?

if I understood correctly Janus Gersie will organize the congress and there will be the elections. Then Catania will probably say that the congress and the elections were illegal. What would the french law and our handbook say about thatkind of a situation ?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:50 pm

Honestly my opinion is:
the whole congress is illegal, because it should be an extra ordinary congress.

now confusion is complete, right? Laughing

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hönkki wrote:From the CIRCULAR0034 ii

"So our suggestion is simple. The Congress will take place on another date."

Are there any rules left ?

if I understood correctly Janus Gersie will organize the congress and there will be the elections. Then Catania will probably say that the congress and the elections were illegal. What would the french law and our handbook say about thatkind of a situation ?

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:12 pm

This morning I got the articles of the french law explaining how elections must take place. If nothing is written int he statutes, there is no minimum of nations necessary to have "legal" elections. So when Silvio writes the elections in 2006 were illegal, it's absolute bullshit.
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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Luis Filipe Horta on Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:21 pm

Why should it be an extra ordinary congress ? non sense.

Heinz Eder wrote:Honestly my opinion is:
the whole congress is illegal, because it should be an extra ordinary congress.

now confusion is complete, right? Laughing

Heinz


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Re: do you want the elections

Post  hönkki on Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:30 pm

now confusion is complete, right?

Totally.

My bet is that after the weekend there will be 3 federations, 2 presidents and 1 good king, but nevermind, I vote for the congress and the elections. Very Happy

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Re: do you want the elections

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:52 pm

do you know the statutes of FISTF?
as it seems no.
we had an extra ordinary congress with elections in january, so the new term ends at january 2014 according on our statutes. so a normal congress can earliest take place in january 2014.
elections in september can only be asked by the board or more than 1/3 of the members of FISTF and should be called extra ordinary congress.

nonsense!??

Heinz

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:Why should it be an extra ordinary congress ? non sense.

Heinz Eder wrote:Honestly my opinion is:
the whole congress is illegal, because it should be an extra ordinary congress.

now confusion is complete, right? Laughing

Heinz


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Re: do you want the elections

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