Problems at tournaments

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Problems at tournaments

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:10 pm

I think it should be published that all people can see the problems and maybe something will change in the future.
I will take out the example of the veteran's category of the greek grand prix, and I want to add already now, that there are many other tournaments doing the same mistake too.

There was a veteran there, who played only 1 (!) game in the veteran's category of the greek Grand Prix. The reason is that the organizer didn't redraw the category, and there was a group with 1 (!) player left in the end. That player surely was happy to be in the first knock-out round without having played a single game, maybe he even had to be referee. Then in the barrage he lost his first game on that day and was out of the event.
Totally 4 players were absent out of 22 registered, which means a whole group. A new draw would mean less groups and less seeded players, and in the end a totally different tournament.

I don't know the problem to make a new draw or to plan the tournament in bigger groups. In a group of 4 one absent player isn't a real problem, but in a group of 3 it is a problem. An extreme example with a group with 1 or 2 players should automatically mean a new draw.

What do you think about that?

Heinz

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  von K. on Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:46 pm

I agree totally. It is not a group at all if there is only 1 or 2 players. We had this problem in the Helsinki Open last year, and greek player only had one game in the group stage on sunday. I thought it was wrong after the long trip. Fortunately he had more games on saturday and in veterans.

The only problem is creditability of the game. Not knowing the groups beforehand is not very professional or sportslike. But for me it's not a problem. For now this remains an amateur game in my opinion anyway.

Perhaps the rules should say that the draw can't be made before the morning of the tournament. But maybe it creates too many problems for orgamizers.

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:51 pm

in my opinion the rule only need to say that groups at a tournament need to have at least 3 players. if the organizer wants to make the draw the day before and wants to organize groups of 3, he has to take the risk to make another draw on saturday again.
Of course those players who registered and are absent on saturday need to be reported to FISTF, but that doesn't mean that no new draw is needed in such a case.

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  drastis on Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:18 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Of course those players who registered and are absent on saturday need to be reported to FISTF, but that doesn't mean that no new draw is needed in such a case.

Heinz

I would like to confirm what was said by Heinz. I played in a group of 2, while another player played (?) in a group of 1!! The worst thing is that the same day in the same category there was a group of 4(!!), who were all there and played all their 3 games!!!

A new draw would have helped to avoid this funny situation, but I don't know if this is the rule. I am saying this because in many other international tournaments I have attended abroad, the same thing happened and the draw did not change. So, probably not changing the draw is what usually happens.

PS. Does anybody know if the absent players were reported to FISTF?

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  hönkki on Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:28 pm

Let's imagine someone travels from Singapore to a tournament in europe and he/she is allowed to play just one official game. I would call it a catastrophe.

The organizer should do a new draw, if there are groups of 1. That means he should also do a new schedule, which will take some time. So, the organizer need to have alternative schedules in advance: plan B, plan C and maybe even plan D.

I think there are no other way.

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:31 pm

If it isn't written down in the rules, it should at least be in the interest of the organizer to make a new draw, because especially groups of 1 affect even the knock-out stage, because one player will win forfait in the knock-out stage against the absent player from the group of 1 player.
On the other side the organizers also get in troubles with the referees, if players are missing. You are right, that it happens at many events, I don't know why organizers don't care about those problems. A new draw could be done in a proper time, I think all players who are affected by absent players would be happy to wait for half an hour instead of playing 1 game in the whole competition. The problem is that organizers show the draws before they realize that players are absent, then some players of course complain. If the organizers would make a registration in the morning, they would see the problem, make a new draw and that's it.
Of course it is not nice to tell a player a new draw is needed and the player isn't seeded anymore or maybe has a more difficult group, but the organizer shouldn't be blamed for that, the players who are absent are repsonsible for that. In smaller events the draw always should take place on the day of the tournament, after the organizer knows who is at the venue and who is not. With a general software for FISTF events, even Majors could act that way.
Players were reported in the official report.

Heinz

drastis wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Of course those players who registered and are absent on saturday need to be reported to FISTF, but that doesn't mean that no new draw is needed in such a case.

Heinz

I would like to confirm what was said by Heinz. I played in a group of 2, while another player played (?) in a group of 1!! The worst thing is that the same day in the same category there was a group of 4(!!), who were all there and played all their 3 games!!!

A new draw would have helped to avoid this funny situation, but I don't know if this is the rule. I am saying this because in many other international tournaments I have attended abroad, the same thing happened and the draw did not change. So, probably not changing the draw is what usually happens.

PS. Does anybody know if the absent players were reported to FISTF?

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Heinz Eder on Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:39 pm

the only solution is a software.
Most of the organizers use a PC, but they only use it like organizing the event on paper, instead of having a program to run the event.
Having something like that would help to make a new draw and schedule in less than 1 hour. Looking on most of the events, they have a delay of 1 hour without having any problems of that kind and players don't complain. They are even speaking about a very good tournament.
You can't have alternatives, because you can have an event with 1 or 2 drop outs or you have an event with 6 or 7 drop outs, to have alternatives for every drop out, would mean a lot of work.

Heinz

hönkki wrote:Let's imagine someone travels from Singapore to a tournament in europe and he/she is allowed to play just one official game. I would call it a catastrophe.

The organizer should do a new draw, if there are groups of 1. That means he should also do a new schedule, which will take some time. So, the organizer need to have alternative schedules in advance: plan B, plan C and maybe even plan D.

I think there are no other way.

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Martin Hodds on Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:39 pm

Here is a slightly different example.

At the IO of Wales last weekend, the Open had 18 players, so organiser John Lauder played 6 groups of 3 players. My group was me, Eoin Adams and Guy Smith. This was Guy's first FISTF tournament and we were not 100% sure he would arrive, as he was not there at the start time.

Maybe we should have done a new draw with only 17 players. However me and Eoin did not mind if we only had a group of 2 players as we had played many games the previous day. (And many beers Cool )

Guy Smith did arrive a few minutes later, so the group of 3 was then OK. What if we made a new draw ? Do we say to a player at his first tournament "Thanks but we already started so you can't play" ?

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Admin on Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:03 pm

By the way, how can we get the full results of the Knighton tournaments?
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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Martin Hodds on Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:34 am

Admin wrote:By the way, how can we get the full results of the Knighton tournaments?
John Lauder has all the results I believe.

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Re: Problems at tournaments

Post  Heinz Eder on Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:09 am

Martin, sorry, but that's not the argument to allow groups of 1 or 2 players.
Of course it's a special example, but the player has to respect the time schedule, if he hasn't any reason for coming late.
I think it is easier to tell new people from the beginning that they have to respect the schedule than to explain them after 2 years, after they missed the start of 10 tournaments.

Heinz

Martin Hodds wrote:Here is a slightly different example.

At the IO of Wales last weekend, the Open had 18 players, so organiser John Lauder played 6 groups of 3 players. My group was me, Eoin Adams and Guy Smith. This was Guy's first FISTF tournament and we were not 100% sure he would arrive, as he was not there at the start time.

Maybe we should have done a new draw with only 17 players. However me and Eoin did not mind if we only had a group of 2 players as we had played many games the previous day. (And many beers Cool )

Guy Smith did arrive a few minutes later, so the group of 3 was then OK. What if we made a new draw ? Do we say to a player at his first tournament "Thanks but we already started so you can't play" ?

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